Your Favorite All time XV

First topic message reminder :

Lots of International and Club discussions going on at the moment.

It got me thinkin what would your favorite all time team be...NOT WHO YOU THINKS THE BEST!

Who you've enjoyed watching...for humour or aggression...he may have been a great of the international game or he might not have even been an international ...just a hero of your club....

Many of mine follow my Falcons allegiences...and i dont appologise .

1 Nick Popplewell - Falcons prop and had many a pint with the guy away from the rugby grounnd
2 Keith Wood - Just a fantastic player who entertained with his alround game.
3 Carl Hayman - Aside from his NZ exploits...watching him as a one man pack for us was bewildering...and have surfed near the guy at Tynemouth / Whitley bay
4 Norm Hadley - Just a monstrous guy...has anyone heard of his scuffle with noisy boisterous youths on the London Underground?
5 Simon Shaw - The complete second row...could do the lot...and should have had more caps.
6 Tim Rodber - Underrated...tough but quality.....
7 Pat Lam - One of the most complete alround back row players to have played the game...
8 Buck Shelford - Just epitomises strength, fearless aggression...and power.

9 Gary Armstrong - Passion, fierceness, ability, class scrum half...by Scotland produce them!
10 Johnny...need i say more
11 Caucau - He may have gone wayward...but on his day...simply breathtaking
12 Scott Gibbs - The immoveable object with skills....
13 Inga Tuigamala - What needs to be said...top drawer in both codes...
14 Jason Robinson - Just sublime...entertainment at its best
15 Cristian Cullen - See Jason Robinson...

HHmmmm alot of actual toughmen over skill ...maybe that shows the type of game i like...but this team would entertain both ferociously and entertainment...

red_stag wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Yes, this thread is more about popularity than it is about who is (yet again!) considered the best.

Kinda pointed to, in that the selections so far seem to suggest that 'Dan Carter', despite his almighty reputation and record, doesn't do it for many on the popularity grid.

What's his shortfall? Personality?

I've always found him a little bit "too perfect". Certainly hard to dislike the guy but compared with my favourite #10 (Wilkinson) he doesn't have the same likeability factor for me.

I was just remembering Sexton's take on him a few years ago and I was wondering hmmm,yeah, perhaps he hasn't a nature to warm to outside of his exploits on the field. And for those Kiwis who might say 'What are you trying to get at, Fly!!?' - Dan's on my team. It's okay.

A bit of personality goes a long way.

SecretFly wrote:
Yes, this thread is more about popularity than it is about who is (yet again!) considered the best.

Kinda pointed to, in that the selections so far seem to suggest that 'Dan Carter', despite his almighty reputation and record, doesn't do it for many on the popularity grid.

What's his shortfall? Personality?

I've always found him a little bit "too perfect". Certainly hard to dislike the guy but compared with my favourite #10 (Wilkinson) he doesn't have the same likeability factor for me.

I was just remembering Sexton's take on him a few years ago and I was wondering hmmm,yeah, perhaps he hasn't a nature to warm to outside of his exploits on the field. And for those Kiwis who might say 'What are you trying to get at, Fly!!?' - Dan's on my team. It's okay.

To be fair, indulging in this kind of "name your [blah] XV" is an exploit favoured by NH fan culture, so it's important not to rule out that bias when great players from the SH are under-represented.

It's more about fulfilling some kind of forelorn emptiness through fantasy, hence NH players tend to be over-represented.

Whereas fans in the SH are in a more present, grounded, tangible reality hence generally don't participate.

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:cant understand why J.P. Pietersen is in so many teams. What so great about him?

Perhaps because the thread is about favourite ratther than best teams. He must just strike a chord with some people.

I get that just wondering why. I haven't seen him interviewed so couldn't comment on his character but can think of lots of more exciting/interesting/popular fullbacks/wingers.

The only difference between Carter and Wilkinson, imho, is that Carter can run.

Both phenomenal players, but perhaps take it all a bit too seriously? Boringly efficient maybe?

anotherworldofpain wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Yes, this thread is more about popularity than it is about who is (yet again!) considered the best.

Kinda pointed to, in that the selections so far seem to suggest that 'Dan Carter', despite his almighty reputation and record, doesn't do it for many on the popularity grid.

What's his shortfall? Personality?

I've always found him a little bit "too perfect". Certainly hard to dislike the guy but compared with my favourite #10 (Wilkinson) he doesn't have the same likeability factor for me.

I was just remembering Sexton's take on him a few years ago and I was wondering hmmm,yeah, perhaps he hasn't a nature to warm to outside of his exploits on the field. And for those Kiwis who might say 'What are you trying to get at, Fly!!?' - Dan's on my team. It's okay.

To be fair, indulging in this kind of "name your [blah] XV" is an exploit favoured by NH fan culture, so it's important not to rule out that bias when great players from the SH are under-represented.

It's more about fulfilling some kind of forelorn emptiness through fantasy, hence NH players tend to be over-represented.

Whereas fans in the SH are in a more present, grounded, tangible reality hence generally don't participate.

What on earth are you going on about? SH more grounded etc..?? What a load of tosh.

This thread is just a bit of fun...to show your favorites. Though you are showing the typical case of SH fans having absolutely no sense of humour.

Carter is one of the greats, but for some reason isnt a fan favorite. Who knows why? The are a huge number of other SH players in the many lists though show that shows that Carter isnt liked away from his ability on the pitch.

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:cant understand why J.P. Pietersen is in so many teams. What so great about him?

Perhaps because the thread is about favourite ratther than best teams. He must just strike a chord with some people.

I get that just wondering why. I haven't seen him interviewed so couldn't comment on his character but can think of lots of more exciting/interesting/popular fullbacks/wingers.

He was my Mum's favourite player until she met him (Mum works for the hotel where he got married). Now its "Dan dull as dishwater" ...

I suspect for most people it's the fact that Carter's success has come from being a brilliant all-rounder, rather than the absolute best at any aspect of a 10's game. So he doesn't tackle quite as well as Wilko, his goal kicking is "merely" very good, he doesn't pass or kick tactically quite as well as Mehrtens, and he doesn't have the outrageous streak of a Spencer/Cooper

Well, a sense of humour is a very subjective thing.

What I am saying is that I don't see this kind of "fantasy 15" thing so much in SH forums, but I see it frequently in NH forums.

I'm not saying it is BAD or GOOD. I'm just saying if you see a bias against a player, you can't necessarily assume he's "not popular with fans". You just can guess he's "not popular with certain kinds of fans". Such is the basis of fair inference from statistical data.

Of course I am merely conjecturing that the SH fans preference from grounding is based more on the presence of tangible success, whereas the NH whimsy derives from frustration. So I am open to be wrong about that, but lets not leap to other invalid statistically unsupported conjecture such as "fewer people voted for DC on 606v2, therefore he is dull and very unpopular". Because that would just smack of jealousy and desperation.

westisbest wrote:1 Nick Popplewell
2 Keith Wood
3 Jason Leonard
4 DOC
5 Olivier Mange
6 Simon Easterby
7 Adam Kleeburger
8 Scott Quinell

9 Morgan Williams
10 Ralph Keys
11 Simon Geoghgan
12 Johnathan Bell
13 Stirling Mortlock
14 Cameron Murray
15 Xavier Garbajosa

my replacements:-

Fitzpatrick, Halpin, Corkery, Taylor, Marshall, Hercus, Mentz.

Forget I said anything!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to the picking of favourite sides guys. It was pleasant. Sorry, I spoke.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Of course I am merely conjecturing that the SH fans preference from grounding is based more on the presence of tangible success, whereas the NH whimsy derives from frustration. .

I was just fun Pain. Hell, John (the Bull) Hayes was on a few lists. That's because he's held in affection in some parts and not known in others. Fun.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Well, a sense of humour is a very subjective thing.

What I am saying is that I don't see this kind of "fantasy 15" thing so much in SH forums, but I see it frequently in NH forums.

I'm not saying it is BAD or GOOD. I'm just saying if you see a bias against a player, you can't necessarily assume he's "not popular with fans". You just can guess he's "not popular with certain kinds of fans". Such is the basis of fair inference from statistical data.

Of course I am merely conjecturing that the SH fans preference from grounding is based more on the presence of tangible success, whereas the NH whimsy derives from frustration. So I am open to be wrong about that, but lets not leap to other invalid statistically unsupported conjecture such as "fewer people voted for DC on 606v2, therefore he is dull and very unpopular". Because that would just smack of jealousy and desperation.

Blimey - even posts about Dan Carter are boring.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Well, a sense of humour is a very subjective thing.

What I am saying is that I don't see this kind of "fantasy 15" thing so much in SH forums, but I see it frequently in NH forums.

I'm not saying it is BAD or GOOD. I'm just saying if you see a bias against a player, you can't necessarily assume he's "not popular with fans". You just can guess he's "not popular with certain kinds of fans". Such is the basis of fair inference from statistical data.

Of course I am merely conjecturing that the SH fans preference from grounding is based more on the presence of tangible success, whereas the NH whimsy derives from frustration. So I am open to be wrong about that, but lets not leap to other invalid statistically unsupported conjecture such as "fewer people voted for DC on 606v2, therefore he is dull and very unpopular". Because that would just smack of jealousy and desperation.

Okey dokey...

Dan Carter is a bit of a wallflower so wouldnt be surprised if he isnt that popular with fans where personality is the sole criteria.

He is very popular with women though and he is also one of the best players of all time.

Trying to regard him through a woman's prism...........................

emmmmmmmmmmmm.................................... no. Too boyish.

What we need now is Cari to give a definitive reading on him. But no, she just goes way over-board on the body contour aspect of players. So it'll just have to be a no for Dan all round.

Sorry Dan.

Cari would have a team of 15 Tommy Bowe's.

"We all dream of a team of Tommy Bowe's, a team of Tommy Bowe's, a team of Tommy Bowe's."

Number 1 is Tommy Bowe
Number 2 is Tommy Bowe
etc.

15. Lewsey (as previously stated - for "that" tackle alone)
14. Robinson (loved his burst of speed)
13. Sella (The best centre in the world - had it all)
12. Nonu (A massive challenge for anyone to face. Plus he looks like the Predator with his dreads!)
11. Lomu (Do you REALLY need to ask?)
10. Spencer (Sublime skill and pace - just great to watch)
9. Dawson (Most scrum halves are gobby so & so's - just happened that this one was ours!)

1. Leonard (100+ caps at the coal face - you gotta love the Fun Bus)
2. Wood (The "Flying Potato" in full flight was always worth a watch)
3. Probyn (Hard as nails - the backbone of an awesome early 90s scrum)
4. Bayfield (Massive, imposing and a pretty good player too. Injury ruled him out too early)
5. Shaw (Should have been capped more times. The man was a monster!)
6. Skinner (Every team needs someone to do the dirty work. This guy did it and would be fantastic for the team's morale)
7. Kronfeld (Best 7 of the 90s by a country mile - looked like a gnarly old tree stump but his support play was second to none. I loved to watch him play)
8. Rodber (A real underrated player. Should have won more caps than he did)

15) Cullen
14) Wilson
13) Mortlock
12) Horan
11) Lomu
10) Humphreys, D.
9) Armstrong

1) Smith
2) Ibanez
3) Wallace
4) Pelous
5) Eales
6) Finnegan
7) Magne
8) Peters

I forgot Castagneide!

Jean Baptiste Lafond...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Yes, this thread is more about popularity than it is about who is (yet again!) considered the best.

Kinda pointed to, in that the selections so far seem to suggest that 'Dan Carter', despite his almighty reputation and record, doesn't do it for many on the popularity grid.

What's his shortfall? Personality?

I've always found him a little bit "too perfect". Certainly hard to dislike the guy but compared with my favourite #10 (Wilkinson) he doesn't have the same likeability factor for me.

I was just remembering Sexton's take on him a few years ago and I was wondering hmmm,yeah, perhaps he hasn't a nature to warm to outside of his exploits on the field. And for those Kiwis who might say 'What are you trying to get at, Fly!!?' - Dan's on my team. It's okay.

To be fair, indulging in this kind of "name your [blah] XV" is an exploit favoured by NH fan culture, so it's important not to rule out that bias when great players from the SH are under-represented.

It's more about fulfilling some kind of forelorn emptiness through fantasy, hence NH players tend to be over-represented.

Whereas fans in the SH are in a more present, grounded, tangible reality hence generally don't participate.

What on earth are you going on about? SH more grounded etc..?? What a load of tosh.

This thread is just a bit of fun...to show your favorites. Though you are showing the typical case of SH fans having absolutely no sense of humour.

Carter is one of the greats, but for some reason isnt a fan favorite. Who knows why? The are a huge number of other SH players in the many lists though show that shows that Carter isnt liked away from his ability on the pitch.

But Geordie he was just taking the pi$$. Don't be so sensitive.

nganboy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Yes, this thread is more about popularity than it is about who is (yet again!) considered the best.

Kinda pointed to, in that the selections so far seem to suggest that 'Dan Carter', despite his almighty reputation and record, doesn't do it for many on the popularity grid.

What's his shortfall? Personality?

I've always found him a little bit "too perfect". Certainly hard to dislike the guy but compared with my favourite #10 (Wilkinson) he doesn't have the same likeability factor for me.

I was just remembering Sexton's take on him a few years ago and I was wondering hmmm,yeah, perhaps he hasn't a nature to warm to outside of his exploits on the field. And for those Kiwis who might say 'What are you trying to get at, Fly!!?' - Dan's on my team. It's okay.

To be fair, indulging in this kind of "name your [blah] XV" is an exploit favoured by NH fan culture, so it's important not to rule out that bias when great players from the SH are under-represented.

It's more about fulfilling some kind of forelorn emptiness through fantasy, hence NH players tend to be over-represented.

Whereas fans in the SH are in a more present, grounded, tangible reality hence generally don't participate.

What on earth are you going on about? SH more grounded etc..?? What a load of tosh.

This thread is just a bit of fun...to show your favorites. Though you are showing the typical case of SH fans having absolutely no sense of humour.

Carter is one of the greats, but for some reason isnt a fan favorite. Who knows why? The are a huge number of other SH players in the many lists though show that shows that Carter isnt liked away from his ability on the pitch.

But Geordie he was just taking the pi$$. Don't be so sensitive.

What I am saying is your inference is invalid, Geordie. All you can glean from here is that DC is not a favourite amongst fans who indulge in "favourite XV" lists on British based internet forums.

If you can't see the statistical skew in that sample then you've got bigger problems that being unpopular...

Geordie

I dont think its a case of when it comes to rugby that people from the Southern hemisphere dont have a sense of humour, its more a case of SH rugby people viewing rugby from a different perspective and objective and in turn appreciation of the game.

On carter, I dont think he is all that popular with many rugby people outside of us kiwis, as I think that many rugby supporters from other countries are frustrated and possibly envious that he doesnt play for their country, he has also by scoring more points in International rugby than any other player, and by that achievement alone would have made himself very unpopular with people from other countries.

aucklandlaurie wrote: I think that many rugby supporters from other countries are frustrated and possibly envious that he doesnt play for their country, he has also by scoring more points in International rugby than any other player, and by that achievement alone would have made himself very unpopular with people from other countries.

Auckland, that is far from true. If that was true there would only be rubbish players on these lists.

These threads are literally just who you for whatever irrational reason take a shine to.

I have to say this SH v NH thing has ruined the thread for all concerned.

Staggy

I havent done any research to back up my assertion that these are the reasons why Dan carter is not popular, its just a vibe...then again others may regard it as irrational reasoning on my part.

I am utterly over this NH v SH bickering as well, hence the point I made about how we view rugby from different perspectives.

No probs Auckland - just came across a bit petty this whole "Nobody likes Dan Carter cos they are jealous".

We are better than that. Please give us some credit.

No probos staggy,
I just would never use language like "nobody likes..." or "jealous" that would be petty.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Staggy

I havent done any research to back up my assertion that these are the reasons why Dan carter is not popular, its just a vibe...then again others may regard it as irrational reasoning on my part.

I am utterly over this NH v SH bickering as well, hence the point I made about how we view rugby from different perspectives.

Carter isn't unpopular he just isn't that popular, personality wise because he is a bit of a wallflower. Has he ever said anything interesting in an interview. No is the answer.

There's no jealousy involved everyone can appreciate how brilliant he is but he wouldn't make a particularly entertaining key note speaker or pundit when his career is up.

To be honest Guns.................... I think if we did a trawl of the present names, you'd find that there is quite a bunch of them that wouldn't be too handy around a microphone and an interesting comment attached to it.

I'd say there are quite a number of wallflowers on our lists.

No, I don't think its his speaking abilities that keeps him off lists, just that unknowable instinctive reaction amongst people not to have him on their mind when they are picking.

I think too, if some of us were honest, we might admit that we like to try to be obscure at times rather than to be obvious in our lists - it can often hint at a more esoteric appreciation of the game than perhaps others.

So - maybe one of the reasons Dan ain't up there all that often is simply due to poster ego..................

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Geordie

I dont think its a case of when it comes to rugby that people from the Southern hemisphere dont have a sense of humour, its more a case of SH rugby people viewing rugby from a different perspective and objective and in turn appreciation of the game.

On carter, I dont think he is all that popular with many rugby people outside of us kiwis, as I think that many rugby supporters from other countries are frustrated and possibly envious that he doesnt play for their country, he has also by scoring more points in International rugby than any other player, and by that achievement alone would have made himself very unpopular with people from other countries.

I think that is true. There is some raw emotion out there that makes true appreciation difficult psychologically. Given time, the wounds will heal, the appreciation will come. Such is always the way, but it's sad to see such a global case of "tall poppy syndrome" from alleged fans...

Maybe fly but my criteria for selecting was either I like them as a pundit or I found them really exciting on the pitch.

I was gonna go for Carter but had to choose Contepomi because he has always been an exciting sometimes mercurial player, quite outspoken Intellegent guy and is obviously a Leinster legend. I have also met him and he is very cool and has time for people. Carter for doesn't tick all those boxes yet he is the best OH I have ever seen.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Geordie

I dont think its a case of when it comes to rugby that people from the Southern hemisphere dont have a sense of humour, its more a case of SH rugby people viewing rugby from a different perspective and objective and in turn appreciation of the game.

On carter, I dont think he is all that popular with many rugby people outside of us kiwis, as I think that many rugby supporters from other countries are frustrated and possibly envious that he doesnt play for their country, he has also by scoring more points in International rugby than any other player, and by that achievement alone would have made himself very unpopular with people from other countries.

I think that is true. There is some raw emotion out there that makes true appreciation difficult psychologically. Given time, the wounds will heal, the appreciation will come. Such is always the way, but it's sad to see such a global case of "tall poppy syndrome" from alleged fans...

this thread is not about who are the best but favourite players. I am not a natural english speaker and its clear to me what it's all about. Carter is widely seen as the best player at his position but we know little about him (outside of his heroics on the field that is) to say yes he's our favourite fly half and that we would happily go on holidays with him. Obviously if you have been his neighbour for years , your perception is naturally different.
I know that you enjoy being a tad provocative AWOP but there is no controversy here. People are free to like who they want and for any reason they deem valid and you cannot challenge that. I emphasize that like is different than appreciate as well...

ps : I would have gone with Merhtens

I'm not challenging who people like whocares, I am merely pointing out that you can't base a statistical inference on comments on a predominantly British rugby board.

To say "DC is not popular with fans" is not a valid inferrence in this context. You can say "DC is not as popular with 606v2 posters as some other 10's".

The population of 606v2 posters does not fairly reflect the opinion of rugby fans in general, or at least that is not proven.

It's quite a simple, uncontroversial and straight forward point of logic, surely?

To put an end to this discord, Casartelli will graciously replace Spencer with Carter in his 'Favourite All Time XV' with immediate effect.

Spencer will obviously be displeased, but he'll just have to deal with it.

sure...your last post is perfectly straightworward. 606v2 population is statiscally speaking not an accurate representative sampel of the rugby fans accross the worlds.

was more referring to the following assertion

There is some raw emotion out there that makes true appreciation difficult psychologically. Given time, the wounds will heal, the appreciation will come. Such is always the way, but it's sad to see such a global case of "tall poppy syndrome" from alleged fans...

the way I read that make me feel like some sort of emotionnaly challenged jealous with sour grapes type of person cuz I wont have DC as my best man!

English not my first language either. I Lithuanian East Europe but not like Dan Cater cause boring person is. Labai Aciu.

Now that he's been promoted to the Casartelli First XV I'm going to do some web based research on Dan 'Interesting' Carter and quash this 'boring' tag once and for all.....

Casartelli wrote:Now that he's been promoted to the Casartelli First XV I'm going to do some web based research on Dan 'Interesting' Carter and quash this 'boring' tag once and for all.....

Oh mate, don't over-do it on that front or everyone'ill have to go changing their lists....

Prepare to be really excited.

"Internationally renowned sports star Daniel Carter was the first person in the world to purchase a personal computer loaded with Windows Vista and 2007 Microsoft Office system..."

http://www.microsoft.com/nz/presscentre/articles/2007/jan07_windowsvistalaunch.mspx

Dan is Yellow, Red and then Blue.....

http://www.personality-abc.com/sport-star-video.php?celebrityID=88

So now you all know. End of argument. Back to work

anotherworldofpain wrote:I'm not challenging who people like whocares, I am merely pointing out that you can't base a statistical inference on comments on a predominantly British rugby board.
To say "DC is not popular with fans" is not a valid inferrence in this context. You can say "DC is not as popular with 606v2 posters as some other 10's".

The population of 606v2 posters does not fairly reflect the opinion of rugby fans in general, or at least that is not proven.

It's quite a simple, uncontroversial and straight forward point of logic, surely?

Bleedin ray of sunshine you are

SecretFly wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Now that he's been promoted to the Casartelli First XV I'm going to do some web based research on Dan 'Interesting' Carter and quash this 'boring' tag once and for all.....

Oh mate, don't over-do it on that front or everyone'ill have to go changing their lists....

Yep. No sour grapes here at all then.

It reminds me of the time that HERSH served a week ban for failing to put a not-to-be-named Welsh star in a list of potential greatest players.

What's my quote (reply to Casartelli) doing up there, Pain?

01. V.Ubogu (1998)
02. M.Ledesma (2007)
03. G.Chilcott (1989)
04. D.Grewcock (2004)
05. J.Eales (1999)
06. C.Robshaw (2012)
07. R.McCaw (2005)
08. D.Lyle (1998)

09. A.Pichot (2003)
10. J.Martin-Hernandez (2007)
11. J.Lomu (1999)
12. D.Carter (2005)
13. B.O'Driscoll (2001)
14. R.Caucau (2003)
15. C.Cullen (1996)

Well done Robshaw for getting back on track.

Shame the threads been spoilt...its just a bit of fun guys...jeez....

I dunno. I just think that picking on a guy for being "dull" when in reality he just doesn't prostrate himself before the media like a jackass and chase the limelight at every opportunity by courting controversy like child or leverage the sport-celebrity status to get away with being a general Muppet is a bit sad.

Personally I think maturity is commendable, and if someone doesn't end up on some sad list of "likeable characters" then I hardly see it in a deteramental light on the person in question. I more see it as a reflection of the maturity of those "judging".

He seems like a down to earth guy who has kept his nose clean, got on with the job and not let it go to his head like a Henson, or a Cirpriani or any of the other clowns that parade around like life is their personal circus.

anotherworldofpain wrote:I dunno. I just think that picking on a guy for being "dull" when in reality he just doesn't prostrate himself before the media like a jackass and chase the limelight at every opportunity by courting controversy like child or leverage the sport-celebrity status to get away with being a general Muppet is a bit sad. Personally I think maturity is commendable, and if someone doesn't end up on some sad list of "likeable characters" then I hardly see it in a deteramental light on the person in question. I more see it as a reflection of the maturity of those "judging".

I think in this case you're making mountains out of molehills AWOP.

Who else has a nice interesting favourites XV?

He seems like a down to earth guy who has kept his nose clean, got on with the job and not let it go to his head like a Henson, or a Cirpriani or any of the other clowns that parade around like life is their personal circus.

And lo behold they dont populate the teams either....well done for trying to be a smart ar$e comedian...and taking this thread back to the arguement...