Racing Metro v Munster; Heineken Cup Round 1

This should be an interesting match. Munster and Racing have both lost two matches in a row although it is fair to say that Munster probably look the stronger team.

I'm not sure we are likely to see massive change from a Munster point of view although personally I would love to welcome Keatley and Downey to the starting team.

Possible Racing Metro Team:

01 Eddy Ben Arous
02 Dimitri Szarzewski
03 Luc Ducalcon
04 Karim Ghezal
05 Francois van der Merwe
06 Antoine Battut
07 Bernard le Roux
08 Jacques Cronje
09 Maxime Machenaud
10 Ollie Barkley
11 Julien Saubade
12 Fabrice Estebanez
13 Mirco Bergamasco
14 Sereli Bobo
15 Benjamin Fall

16 Thomas Bianchin, 17 Andrea Lo Cicero, 18 Fabrice Metz, 19 Masinivanua Matadigo, 20 Sebastien Descons, 21 Mathieu Belie, 22 Alexandre Dumoulin, 23 Salemane Sa

Preferred Munster Team:

01 Wian du Preez
02 Mike Sherry
03 BJ Botha
04 Donnacha O'Callaghan
05 Donnacha Ryan
06 Dave O'Callaghan
07 Sean Dougall
08 Peter O'Mahony
09 Conor Murray
10 Ian Keatley
11 Simon Zebo
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett
15 Keith Earls

16 Damien Varley, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Stephen Archer, 19 Paul O'Connell, 20 Paddy Butler, 21 Peter Stringer, 22 Ronan O'Gara, 23 Denis Hurley

Racing have a serious amount of injuries (Wisniewski, Dambielle, Steyn) as well as having to deal with their Argentines out in the Rugby Championship - they may or may not be back but it would seem bizzare to chuck them straight in. This might be a good chance for Barkley to make his first start. The front row is very very strong and definitely my biggest worry. I am very glad that Sebastian Chabal and Leo Nallet have left the club - those big bulky lads in the engine room would make mince meat of our front five.

From a Munster point of view another concern is the 10-12 axis and who we pick. I think Ian Keatley is a must in this team and both Earls and Laulala appear to have played better when paired with the physical Downey.

If we pick the right team then I do think we are capable of getting an all important away win. However by the same token Racing have strong centres, some big South African forwards and a good scrum. They may be missing Frans Steyn and Juan Hernandez but Olly Barkely is well able to kick the penalties.

With Munsters backs coach, Simon Mannix, being the former Racing Metro backs coach this makes things very interesting.

NOTE: Those teams are speculation. I will update with proper teams once announced.

Penney is making us sweat:

"The statistics show that the teams that succeed in the Heineken Cup have done so on the back of experience. That's why it has been great having someone of Ronan O'Gara's experience working around the fringes of the squad and behind the scenes during his international rest period.

"He is such a great influence on everyone at the club. He has been really positive and has worked so hard to be in a position to contribute on his return.

"Ian Keatley has benefitted from working alongside him and he is growing in stature all the time. We will really need the youngsters to step up to the mark in the Heineken Cup."

So does he want ROGs experience or does he want Keatley to step up?

He'll use both I'd think. When he chooses to emphasises one over the other will be the telling point. Will Keatley get the majority time when considered toughest opponents show up, or will O'Gara's experience be trusted then? I don't think even Penney has truly committed himself to that one yet. Keatley has much more aggressive punch right now form-wise but O'Gara is the playing for territory kicking king when things don't fully go according to team plans.

Fly the problem is though that to me O'Gara rarely kicks into the corners any more.

Yeah...but why? Even when it's the possibly old reliable 'boring' thing to do..it's still often the right thing to do to push the offensive team back and settle the ship. Why does he not do it now?
I know he wants to be seen as part of the new deal but judging when to revert to tried and tested - even for those brief occasions to knock back and cool down the growing rhythm of your opponents - should be a natural for him.

But maybe that's all to do with getting less leverage from the lineouts than before. Or maybe, as some suggest, he can't make the yards anymore. Still, I think the kicking for territory game shouldn't become completely obsolete - when needed.

ROG is a competitor. My guess is that he feels that he needs to show that he can play this new style.

Kicking definitely works. Keatley use of the chip kick has been very good this year.

So Stag, do you want to see Keatley up first to see what Munster in full flow might do? Or do you want it started cautiously?

SecretFly wrote:So Stag, do you want to see Keatley up first to see what Munster in full flow might do? Or do you want it started cautiously?

Look at my preferred Munster team in the OP

I think thats an outdated stereotype fly.

Keatley is not only playing attacking rugby better than ROG, he's also playing better territorial rugby too. His place kicking is better and is his kicking from hand. By contrast ROG seems to think he is Quade Cooper these days.

I can't think of any advantage to playing ROG given the way the two have been playing.

rodders wrote:I can't think of any advantage to playing ROG given the way the two have been playing.

+1

Oh yeah...sorry about that. It's clear.

I expect from what he's saying he'll use Keatley as an impact player coming off the bench to replace ROG. Could be wrong though.

Maybe in the Heineken Cup he'll issue instructions for Munster to tighten up a bit more and play more territory, at least away from home. O'Gara has been putting a lot more width on the ball than he needs to be; why else would Penney retain him as first choice without using his strengths?

rodders wrote:I think thats an outdated stereotype fly.

Keatley is not only playing attacking rugby better than ROG, he's also playing better territorial rugby too. His place kicking is better and is his kicking from hand. By contrast ROG seems to think he is Quade Cooper these days.

I can't think of any advantage to playing ROG given the way the two have been playing.

If Keatley implodes...who comes on? If Munster are being punished, who'll come on? It's stereotype but for now it's also true. Keatley is no guarantee. He's an exciting prospect in good form in the Pro12. Good form might desert him when most needed. He still has much to prove.

I say Keatley should play because this is now the level where he needs to be - for future Munster plans. I believe he should be there. But I'm wondering how Penney will view it and, no, I still don't think we'll be able to predict who he trusts more when the chips are down.

So far this season when Munstr have been at their best Keatley has played 10. When Munster have been at their worst ROG has played 10. And that includes during games as well. Against Leinster the Munster attack changed when Keatley came on for the last 20 min.

I backed Munster +7pts before the teams were announced (I know I know I should have waited) and have no doubt the reason I lost was because of ROG.

ROG would have a 3/10 rating while Keatley would be an 8/10 so far. Its a massive risk playing ROG.

As I said last week, I wouldn't pay any attention as to how Munster have played in their last couple of games. You won't see anything of what Munster will be like until next weekend. Munster always have their tight game, they've just been practising their wide game for the last couple of times to get good at it. Think back to Munster v Leinster in Cork a few years ago when Munster (lost at home to Leinster) trying to throw the ball around in a gale force wind. Normal business resumed the following weekend.

Penney has said what he is trying to do at Munster is add another layer to the Munster playing style (so don't expect Munster to forget how to play a tight game).

Racing will be suitably confused as to what to expect at the weekend - and an away win in Paris would set Munster up nicely.

Also worth noting that Mannix is ex-Racing so will know a lot about their players. He had Racing kicking a lot when he was there.

Listening to Off the Ball last night - Victor Costello, Alan Quinlan & Woody all went for O'Gara (Woody was about 50-50). Most of them went for O'Gara for his experience/confidence away from home. No matter how great you might think Ian Keatley is (I think he could exert a bit more control over the game, but he maybe being told to just go for it at the moment, so I wouldn't write him off just yet) it would be a massive ask to throw him into a game like that. If it was Edinburgh, I'd be happy enough as he is familar with them.

profitius wrote:So far this season when Munstr have been at their best Keatley has played 10. When Munster have been at their worst ROG has played 10. And that includes during games as well. Against Leinster the Munster attack changed when Keatley came on for the last 20 min.

I backed Munster +7pts before the teams were announced (I know I know I should have waited) and have no doubt the reason I lost was because of ROG.

ROG would have a 3/10 rating while Keatley would be an 8/10 so far. Its a massive risk playing ROG.

Another way of looking at it, if Keatley had taken the 3pts instead of going for the lineout at the end, you would have won your bet and Munster would have got the losing bonus pt

I would start with Ian for the first half and tell him that.

I'd bring ROg on at either half time or 60mins and tell him to close the game out. ROG will do the right thing when the game is tight and the game has to be won which this one has to be.

I also don't think we will play as open as we have been as to be fair Metro can run the ball as shown in their games last year. I think that us keeping it tight will get us a result. If we go out and run it we could be schooled

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:So far this season when Munstr have been at their best Keatley has played 10. When Munster have been at their worst ROG has played 10. And that includes during games as well. Against Leinster the Munster attack changed when Keatley came on for the last 20 min.

I backed Munster +7pts before the teams were announced (I know I know I should have waited) and have no doubt the reason I lost was because of ROG.

ROG would have a 3/10 rating while Keatley would be an 8/10 so far. Its a massive risk playing ROG.

Another way of looking at it, if Keatley had taken the 3pts instead of going for the lineout at the end, you would have won your bet and Munster would have got the losing bonus pt

So Howlett cost him the bet then?

rodders wrote: By contrast ROG seems to think he is Quade Cooper these days.

You mean there's a toxic atmosphere in the Munster camp already? Wow - Penney didn't waste any time, did he?

So Wian Du Preez and Keith Earls are out of this game. Going to be a seriously massive game for Dave Kilcoyne. It's also a seriously massive opportunity but it's gonna be tough going over there.

Pot Hale wrote:

rodders wrote: By contrast ROG seems to think he is Quade Cooper these days.

You mean there's a toxic atmosphere in the Munster camp already? Wow - Penney didn't waste any time, did he?

Well, he is/was a great pal of Robbie Deans

Strong rumours on Munsterfans that POC will start.

Rumoured starting team is:
Kilcoyne, Sherry, BJ
DOC, POC
D Ryan, Dougall, POM
Murray ROG
Zebo, Casey, Downey, Howlett
Keatley

Subs: Horan, Varley, Archer, B Holland, TOD, Barnes, Hurley, Stringer

Jaysus! not a massive impact on that bench. Starting team ain't bad though. (Bar Radge )

ROG's tackling (or lack of) is also an issue and one that Racing Metro will undoubtedly target. His tackling against Leinster at the weekend was shockingly bad (the McFadden break leading up to the BOD try being only the most obvious example) and I don't think his kicking and game management compensate any more. Just an opinion of a humble Leinster fan (albeit one with 50% Munster blood) who wants to see Munster win

brennomac wrote:ROG's tackling (or lack of) is also an issue and one that Racing Metro will undoubtedly target. His tackling against Leinster at the weekend was shockingly bad (the McFadden break leading up to the BOD try being only the most obvious example) and I don't think his kicking and game management compensate any more. Just an opinion of a humble Leinster fan (albeit one with 50% Munster blood) who wants to see Munster win

Casey missed a lot more tackles than ROG did last weekend and no one is hanging him out to dry for it. D Ryan in the backrow should make a huge difference in the midfield defence - then we have Downey who hopefully won't miss as many as Casey did last weekend. I think you flatter Racing a bit - they are no Leinster on the attacking front.

I think its a good plan to start Keatley at fullback for now - it will be like old times for ROG who used to have Warwick there and whatever about ROG's defence, his head will be needed here more than anything else if we want to at least bring home a bonus point.

Keatley at full back is not the answer . He really struggled there against the Dragons, couple of drops and really poor positional sense. Against a kicking team like Metro i'd worry. He's an out half so we shouldnt be shoe horning him into the team. Denis Hurley will be grand there.

I also agree on the LuaLua defensive performance on Saturday. He was poor.

Playing O'Connell without a run last week would scream panic. But definately it would be great to have Donncha Ryan at six and DOC/POC in the second row.

Lots of questions but the answers wont be known till sunday week. Its gonna be tough Saturday thats for sure.

Captain Charisma wrote:Keatley at full back is not the answer . He really struggled there against the Dragons, couple of drops and really poor positional sense. Against a kicking team like Metro i'd worry. He's an out half so we shouldnt be shoe horning him into the team. Denis Hurley will be grand there.

I also agree on the LuaLua defensive performance on Saturday. He was poor.

Playing O'Connell without a run last week would scream panic. But definately it would be great to have Donncha Ryan at six and DOC/POC in the second row.

Lots of questions but the answers wont be known till sunday week. Its gonna be tough Saturday thats for sure.

Hurley isn't the answer at full back, but nor is Keatley, it really looks like Penney wants him in the team but can't put him at 10.
Munster look in poor shape with the amount of injuries they've had, Downey is going to have his work cut out, as good as LLL, can
be in attack, he is always liable for a defensive lapse, or three, and his tackling technique can be awful.

Racing are an average enough team, but there pack is huge, they will have a big weight advantage. Hoping Munster can do the business, big chance of a big weekend for the provinces, and this is probably the most dodgy game.

Hernandez would want to be crazy to kick to a back 3 of Howlett, Zebo & Keatley, particularly when they have no chasers. If he kicks the corners they will have to contend with 3 international locks.

It should be noted that Dan Carter's introduction to rugby was playing 12 for a couple of seasons, so it wouldn't be a foreign idea to introduce your outhalf that way. JJ is at 12 in the B&I Cup this weekend.

Sin é wrote:Hernandez would want to be crazy to kick to a back 3 of Howlett, Zebo & Keatley, particularly when they have no chasers. If he kicks the corners they will have to contend with 3 international locks.

It should be noted that Dan Carter's introduction to rugby was playing 12 for a couple of seasons, so it wouldn't be a foreign idea to introduce your outhalf that way. JJ is at 12 in the B&I Cup this weekend.

Where are you getting the news relating to JJ from?


Hernandez will kick the ball to the back 3 no matter who is playing there, expect lots of drop goal attempts and garryowens, normally to the determent of his team.

Sin é wrote:Strong rumours on Munsterfans that POC will start.

Rumoured starting team is:
Kilcoyne, Sherry, BJ
DOC, POC
D Ryan, Dougall, POM
Murray ROG
Zebo, Casey, Downey, Howlett
Keatley

Subs: Horan, Varley, Archer, B Holland, TOD, Barnes, Hurley, Stringer

I just checked munsterfans. Its probably just trolls trolling.

Having shown no ill effects from a full training session yesterday, Paul O'Connell has been named in Munster's starting XV for their opening Heineken Cup game against Racing Metro on Saturday.
O'Connell will pack down, alongside Billy Holland who is named in place of the injured Donncha O'Callaghan (hamstring), for the first time since the League game against Ulster back in early May. O'Callaghan sat out yesterday's training spin at CIT and was quite hopeful of being fit but this afternoon the call was made to withdraw him from the squad.
Elsewhere in the pack, Dave Kilcoyne retains the number 1 jersey in the absence of Wian du Preez who sustained a knee injury against Leinster and Donnacha Ryan's experience was a probable factor in him getting the blind-side berth ahead of Dave O'Callaghan who is named on the bench.

Speaking of O'Connell's inclusion coach Rob Penney felt it prudent to wait until O'Connell had 'reported in' today following the session yesterday before making a decision about his participation or not. " We've always maintained that he'd be back when he felt he was ready. I think it's great for us. It's great for Irish rugby, for the rugby community to see a player of his calibre back playing again. It was a gradual process. In the interests of the player it had to be."

The one unforced change in the backline sees Ian Keatley in at full-back instead of Denis Hurley who is named on the bench.

Munster (v Racing Metro): Ian Keatley; Doug Howlett capt, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Simon Zebo; Ronan O'Gara, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Damien Varley, BJ Botha; Billy Holland, Paul O'Connell; Donncha Ryan, Sean Dougall, Peter O'Mahony. Replacements: Mick Sherry, Marcus Horan, Stephen Archer, Dave O'Callaghan, Paddy Butler, Peter Stringer, Danny Barnes, Denis Hurley.

Jesus, looking at that team, Munster are really struggling with injuries amongst other things, I never thought I'd see the day that Billy Holland started at Hec game, don't think he's good enough tbh.

valjester wrote:Jesus, looking at that team, Munster are really struggling with injuries amongst other things, I never thought I'd see the day that Billy Holland started at Hec game, don't think he's good enough tbh.

Holland starting is more to do with having to move D Ryan to the backrow, though in fairness to him, he has been doing well. As regards Fernandez dropping goals - a good reason to keep play well in their half.

Thankfully CJ Stander will be here at the end of the month to provide a bit of muscle there.

Yeah, it's gonna be a big challenge for that Munster pack. It's an interesting game- Racing Metro haven't been going well, they are certainly there to be beaten, but they'll fancy their chances of taking that pack on.

I've called it for Munster but its going to be close. Really looking forward to this one.

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:Jesus, looking at that team, Munster are really struggling with injuries amongst other things, I never thought I'd see the day that Billy Holland started at Hec game, don't think he's good enough tbh.

Holland starting is more to do with having to move D Ryan to the backrow, though in fairness to him, he has been doing well. As regards Fernandez dropping goals - a good reason to keep play well in their half.

Thankfully CJ Stander will be here at the end of the month to provide a bit of muscle there.

I can understand why Holland is playing, but he is extremely light for a lock. Hernandez will try drop goals from everywhere, he isn't very accurate though so Munster won't mind him returning the ball to them.

Will Hernandez play?

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:Hernandez would want to be crazy to kick to a back 3 of Howlett, Zebo & Keatley, particularly when they have no chasers. If he kicks the corners they will have to contend with 3 international locks.

It should be noted that Dan Carter's introduction to rugby was playing 12 for a couple of seasons, so it wouldn't be a foreign idea to introduce your outhalf that way. JJ is at 12 in the B&I Cup this weekend.

Where are you getting the news relating to JJ from?
.

B&I Munster Team v Plymouth Albion (nice to see Felix back).

Felix Jones; Ronan O'Mahony, Cian Bohane, JJ Hanrahan, Corey Hircock; Scott Deasy, Duncan Williams; John Ryan, Sean Henry capt, Alan Cotter; Ian Nagle, Brian Hayes; Shane Buckley, Barry O'Mahony, Tommy O'Donnell. Replacements: Duncan Casey, Christy Condon, Philip Donnellan, Sean Rennison, Cathal Sheridan, AN Other, Johnny Holland.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/10952.php

red_stag wrote:Will Hernandez play?

No, he is not in the squad.

Voici le groupe de 25 joueurs retenu par le staff du Racing Metro 92 pour la réception du Munster, samedi à 14h35 au Stade de France pour la première journée de HCup 2012-2013.

Avants : Battut, Ben Arous, Bianchin, Cronje, Ducalcon, Gérondeau, Ghezal, Le Roux, Lo Cicero, Matadigo, Metz, Qovu, Sa, Szarzewski, Van der Merwe.

Arrières : Barkley, Bergamasco, Descons, Estebanez, Fall, Imhoff, Jané, Machenaud, Saubade, Vakatawa.

Really interesting interview with Julien Brugnaut about his time in Munster on Racing's website.
He really loved living in Cork!



http://www.racing-metro92.com/Le_Munster_par_Brugnaut___Premiere_partie-Actualite-49-1014.html

http://www.racing-metro92.com/Le_Munster_par_Brugnaut___Deuxieme_partie-Actualite-49-1015.html

Want Munster to win this one, but not overly confident with that squad. Will miss the game as I'll be at Murrayfield.

I'm glad we're seeing the return of the Downey-Laulala partnership in midfield. I think that is our strongest combo, not sure why that was stopped recently to be honest.

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:Will Hernandez play?

No, he is not in the squad.

Thats what I assumed. I dont know why his drop kicks were such an issue earlier in the thread.

Munsty I agree entirely. Downey has been something of a lynchpin this season.

I've got to say, I really hope we don't play a tight game in this and same for Racing. There is plenty of potential in both sides and I wouldn't like to see it strangled.

MBTGOG wrote:I'm glad we're seeing the return of the Downey-Laulala partnership in midfield. I think that is our strongest combo, not sure why that was stopped recently to be honest.

Lots of reasons!

Give Downey a rest. Give Earls gametime. Give Zebo gametime. Checking out how Earls & Lualala worked together.
I don't think we've seen Earls & Downey together yet.

Sin é wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:I'm glad we're seeing the return of the Downey-Laulala partnership in midfield. I think that is our strongest combo, not sure why that was stopped recently to be honest.

Lots of reasons!

Give Downey a rest. Give Earls gametime. Give Zebo gametime. Checking out how Earls & Lualala worked together.
I don't think we've seen Earls & Downey together yet.

That's a bit surprising,I suppose there's only so many games to try things in and Earls was held back from the 1st few games because of the player management programme,I hope we'll see this tried later in the year.

What about all four Provinces winning this weekend, have to look at that as an accum bet.

Munster prob have the hardest job, this weekend, maybe worth £5?

On a side note (actually above really was the side note), When Sexton started getting the10 jeresy ahead of ROG, RoG was critised for his running game being less than Sextons. RoG worked on this and we saw an improvment on it, I was wondering has RoG added more to his game since then, improving on his weaker areas?

Strong start from munster.

I have to say, regardless of it being the first scrum I thought Garner should have given a penalty try when the racing 8 disintegrated over their own try line.

I agree Ozzy. I was baffled as to why they did not get a penalty try. Racing supposedly have a monster pack but they're getting beaten in that area.

Great try by the Munster openside there... This looks like the Munster of old...!

Great intensity from Munster, as you say maesteg, looks like the Munster of old.

Good work Munste pressuring racing trying to clear..