Racing Metro v Munster; Heineken Cup Round 1

First topic message reminder :

This should be an interesting match. Munster and Racing have both lost two matches in a row although it is fair to say that Munster probably look the stronger team.

I'm not sure we are likely to see massive change from a Munster point of view although personally I would love to welcome Keatley and Downey to the starting team.

Possible Racing Metro Team:

01 Eddy Ben Arous
02 Dimitri Szarzewski
03 Luc Ducalcon
04 Karim Ghezal
05 Francois van der Merwe
06 Antoine Battut
07 Bernard le Roux
08 Jacques Cronje
09 Maxime Machenaud
10 Ollie Barkley
11 Julien Saubade
12 Fabrice Estebanez
13 Mirco Bergamasco
14 Sereli Bobo
15 Benjamin Fall

16 Thomas Bianchin, 17 Andrea Lo Cicero, 18 Fabrice Metz, 19 Masinivanua Matadigo, 20 Sebastien Descons, 21 Mathieu Belie, 22 Alexandre Dumoulin, 23 Salemane Sa

Preferred Munster Team:

01 Wian du Preez
02 Mike Sherry
03 BJ Botha
04 Donnacha O'Callaghan
05 Donnacha Ryan
06 Dave O'Callaghan
07 Sean Dougall
08 Peter O'Mahony
09 Conor Murray
10 Ian Keatley
11 Simon Zebo
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett
15 Keith Earls

16 Damien Varley, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Stephen Archer, 19 Paul O'Connell, 20 Paddy Butler, 21 Peter Stringer, 22 Ronan O'Gara, 23 Denis Hurley

Racing have a serious amount of injuries (Wisniewski, Dambielle, Steyn) as well as having to deal with their Argentines out in the Rugby Championship - they may or may not be back but it would seem bizzare to chuck them straight in. This might be a good chance for Barkley to make his first start. The front row is very very strong and definitely my biggest worry. I am very glad that Sebastian Chabal and Leo Nallet have left the club - those big bulky lads in the engine room would make mince meat of our front five.

From a Munster point of view another concern is the 10-12 axis and who we pick. I think Ian Keatley is a must in this team and both Earls and Laulala appear to have played better when paired with the physical Downey.

If we pick the right team then I do think we are capable of getting an all important away win. However by the same token Racing have strong centres, some big South African forwards and a good scrum. They may be missing Frans Steyn and Juan Hernandez but Olly Barkely is well able to kick the penalties.

With Munsters backs coach, Simon Mannix, being the former Racing Metro backs coach this makes things very interesting.

NOTE: Those teams are speculation. I will update with proper teams once announced.

BIG 3 points there from Olly Barkley!

That was an absolute demolition.

I do wish Saracens would show that much ambition every week.

Oops wrong thread

Game over Murray has thrown this match away, should of been yellowed at least once earlier as well, muppet.

Finall score...Munster 17....Munster stupidity....22

You have to say that Munster have lost this game as opposed to Metro winning it. Some real brainless rugby out there at times.

DOD wrote:Finall score...Munster 17....Munster stupidity....22

Yeah, not far wrong. A poor game in truth. Would be wrong to not give any credit to Racing but at 17-16 this should have been seen out.

Terrible game. I can't believe how badly Munster threw that away. Penney will be furious.

How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will? The competition definitely needs re-structuring.

Just saw the Edinburgh score. Guess we won't be seeing them in any semi-finals this year

Saracens off to a flyer in this pool, early favourites to take it. 45-0 on the road is impressive against anyone.

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will? The competition definitely needs re-structuring.

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will? The competition definitely needs re-structuring.

Murray, Varley, Looloo, Downey (not sure if he was playing), Dougall, all not good enough...once O'Gara went off the kicking game required went nowhere...the only place we are going is to the Amlin

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will? The competition definitely needs re-structuring.

Haha pot... Brilliant

Dougall had a good game in my opinion. He was all over the pitch at times, I will be interested to see his tackle count.

Is the Connacht game over they are winning 19-10 at the moment I believe.

Dougal? all over the pitch and ineffectual....same as the Leinster game....

We've been hearing all week how bad RC are. They've lived up to expectations but Munster manage to Smeg it up by pure stupidity.

He wasn't great against Leinster, but he played well this game. Plus he scored your first try.

It's not often Munster throw a game away in the dying minutes. Poor conditions didn't help the game but Murray made a massive error there.

to be fair to racing , their backline was quite experimental. hernandez started at 12 without even going through a single training session with barkley. the rain, the bad pitch, ROG injury and murray decision making certainly suited them as they were never going to risk running the ball.

Is Murray worse than TOL?

Another bit of evidence that the balance of power has moved from Munster to Ulster and now Munster are Ireland's third province. The back row is very average- they have been hit very hard with the retirements of Wallace and Leamy and the injury to Coughlan. Three young players who are not up to that standard of rugby at this point in their careers, though that's not to saw that a season of relative struggle (I still think they will get out of their group perhaps as runners up) will give young players a hardened edge for the future. Maybe some short term struggles for longer term gains. Great try from Zebo as well.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Another bit of evidence that the balance of power has moved from Munster to Ulster and now Munster are Ireland's third province. The back row is very average- they have been hit very hard with the retirements of Wallace and Leamy and the injury to Coughlan. Three young players who are not up to that standard of rugby at this point in their careers, though that's not to saw that a season of relative struggle (I still think they will get out of their group perhaps as runners up) will give young players a hardened edge for the future. Maybe some short term struggles for longer term gains. Great try from Zebo as well.

Ah shure your probably right....we will see when our provincial cousins come to thomond

Well i didnt expect that but Munster were very poor today.
Fair dues to Racing, excellent scalp for them.

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will? The competition definitely needs re-structuring.

The French have you covered there, Pot Hale. Now they say they want restructuring because the Irish are unfairly competitive. Back in 2006, though, they wanted it because the provinces couldn't win the Cup. If you could just kindly see your way to winning it with an U20 team, we'd be able to get down to the core French grievances.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will? The competition definitely needs re-structuring.

The French have you covered there, Pot Hale. Now they say they want restructuring because the Irish are unfairly competitive. Back in 2006, though, they wanted it because the provinces couldn't win the Cup. If you could just kindly see your way to winning it with an U20 team, we'd be able to get down to the core French grievances.

I think Schmidt is working on that with the injury list he's created.....

Only saw the last 25 minutes or so ..... so I can only say...

Fantastic try by Zebo. Terrible mistake by Murray. Munsters scrum isn't good enough.

Not a great start to the Heino campaign, but not the end of the world.

Keep the peckers up Munster men .

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will? The competition definitely needs re-structuring.

rodders wrote:Only saw the last 25 minutes or so ..... so I can only say...

Fantastic try by Zebo. Terrible mistake by Murray. Munsters scrum isn't good enough.

Not a great start to the Heino campaign, but not the end of the world.

Keep the peckers up Munster men .

Actually the munster scrum was dominating in the first half. They could have had a penalty try in the first few mins of the game off a scrum. I though kilcoyne had a good game.

Fair enough LF4L, didn't see the first half but they were really struggling there at the end, lost a number against the head.

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will?

By not having to pay the salaries of their best players because the tab is picked up by the IRFU?

splenetic wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will?

By not having to pay the salaries of their best players because the tab is picked up by the IRFU?

How does that make it fair? Munster's salery budget is 5million, whereas racing metro's is 20million. See the difference?

Today Munsters pack included POC, POM and Donnacha Ryan who started a combined 2 games this season between them. The pack is clearly undercooked, same with Leinster. Just highlighting that because some people believe Irish teams have all the advantage.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

splenetic wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will?

By not having to pay the salaries of their best players because the tab is picked up by the IRFU?

How does that make it fair? Munster's salery budget is 5million, whereas racing metro's is 20million. See the difference?

I would have thought it was pretty clear I was taking the urine. However, if you seriously think that Racing are spending 20m on their squad, around half a million a player, then you must be!

profitius wrote:Today Munsters pack included POC, POM and Donnacha Ryan who started a combined 2 games this season between them. The pack is clearly undercooked, same with Leinster. Just highlighting that because some people believe Irish teams have all the advantage.

I don't think they were the worry. Munster's pack will probably be undercooked all season given the changes the squad is going through. I have seen Munster teams play worse and get results over the past decade or so. This team, especially in the backrow, are just very 'green'. There will probably be a few games like that this season. I thought at the start of the season Munster would 'struggle', as in relative to their success recently, but will be a better team possibly nest season or more likely the season after next for it. Zebo scored a great try today. Superb actually. I really wish someone would make him pull those socks up though. It drives me insane.

splenetic wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

splenetic wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:How can Irish provinces compete against these big-spending French clubs who can rest and rotate players at will?

By not having to pay the salaries of their best players because the tab is picked up by the IRFU?

How does that make it fair? Munster's salery budget is 5million, whereas racing metro's is 20million. See the difference?

I would have thought it was pretty clear I was taking the urine. However, if you seriously think that Racing are spending 20m on their squad, around half a million a player, then you must be!

Well thats what the commentators said. Sure thats nothing compared to tolouse. They have a budget of 33million!

Racing targeted Keatley all day with their non-stop garryowens, and they were right to. Half of Racing's backline weren't even playing in their proper positions. A sad day for Munster and the 'Munster game' is now history. Every score they got was a gift! We haven't had a set-piece for a long time now. Basic errors has dominated our game for the last few years. What do they do at training!?

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

I don't think they were the worry. Munster's pack will probably be undercooked all season given the changes the squad is going through. I have seen Munster teams play worse and get results over the past decade or so. This team, especially in the backrow, are just very 'green'. There will probably be a few games like that this season. I thought at the start of the season Munster would 'struggle', as in relative to their success recently, but will be a better team possibly nest season or more likely the season after next for it. Zebo scored a great try today. Superb actually. I really wish someone would make him pull those socks up though. It drives me insane.

Thats exactly my view. This is a squad in transition somewhat and i didnt have that many expectations this season. I will have more expectations next year as this team will eventually gel.

I only saw the highlights but Jesus Christ, Murray what in God's name were you thinking, not sure if anyone else saw TG4s work, or even understood it, but they made an interesting point that Munster lacked leadership, which I actually think is quite true. They did mention that Murray should have belted the ball away as we all did.


Can't tell much from the highlights, but are defending was diabolical at times, their try came from us trying to force it wide and then a calamity of errors. I thought we could have had a penalty try in the opening minutes, we got the shove on numerous times on their 5m line. I would question how legitimate their try was, I don't see how that constitutes downward pressure but that may just be me.


An alright start missing some big players an others like Paulie barely fit. There are a fair few positives to be taken ahead of Edinburgh next weekend.

There is something rather pitiful about these french clubs paying obscene amounts of money for foreign players who are only there for the money. Mike Phillips and the rest of the bayonne gang being a prime example. Racing club are prepared to pay dan lydiate and jamie roberts £500k each per year. Surely, this money would be better spent on an academy?!

Scrumdown wrote:There is something rather pitiful about these french clubs paying obscene amounts of money for foreign players who are only there for the money. Mike Phillips and the rest of the bayonne gang being a prime example. Racing club are prepared to pay dan lydiate and jamie roberts £500k each per year. Surely, this money would be better spent on an academy?!

Completely agree especially in such a rugby rich area of the world like Bayonne. Maybe clubs like Racing are trying to attract big names to create interest in what is primarily a soccer area

I dont know if you are watching Toulouse and Leicester but am not sure how much money and TV contracts they need for the dross they are serving up at the moment.

Did anyone else notice that Racing Metro decided not to play in sky blue and white but rather in the dark grey colour of the new Dove for Men skincare products that they advertise.

Money talks.

I was disappointed to lose it but overall thought we did ok. Getting the losing bonus was absolutely vital.

Rubbish Stag....it was a comedy of errors...

Ah yea we had our errors of course. But another day that would have been a comfortable win.

I felt we should have had a penalty try in the first few minutes. The Racing Metro try was very questionable. Conor Murray must take responsibility for 6 points.

The game was there to be taken and we should have won.

However just because we threw away the game doesnt mean we were terrible.

Let's hope after that result, Racing will now take the comp seriously and throw out their first XV for the visit of Saracens and Edinburgh.

Brennus wrote:Let's hope after that result, Racing will now take the comp seriously and throw out their first XV for the visit of Saracens and Edinburgh.

Here here!

red_stag wrote:Ah yea we had our errors of course. But another day that would have been a comfortable win.

I felt we should have had a penalty try in the first few minutes. The Racing Metro try was very questionable. Conor Murray must take responsibility for 6 points.

The game was there to be taken and we should have won.

However just because we threw away the game doesnt mean we were terrible.

Also POC knocked the ball on inches before he touched the ball down for a try. Very unlucky.