Why can some fighters quit and some can't...

I was watching a repeat of the 2 Collins v Benn fights from a few years back(1995 I think) on Sunday evening. We all know what happened in the first fight when Benn sprained his ankle.

My issue is though that in the second fight Benn quit after the 6th round I think. He didn't look like he was going to be knocked out and had done quite well. The only reason I can think he quit is because he was tired and felt he'd nothing left. But does this not go against a 'fighters pride'. I'm not knocking Benn and having nothing but good to say about but why is this never held against him?

When Ortiz quit in his last flight he was slated. That was later confirmed as a broken jaw but people inclusing some of the commentators labelled him a "quitter".

So why can some fighter quit and some can't.

I think the circumstances are quite different. Benn was at the end of his career and may, literally have had very little left in the tank. It was a disappointing way to go out and he did actually cop a bit stick from the fans. But he had some wars over his career notebaly Eubank and Gman and the feeling was this was just one fight too many and the end of the road. I think Benn only realised it in the ring.

Ortiz had already a reputation of taking the easy way out and had even made comments along the lines of quitting if it got too tough. He was up on the cards and just had to see the fight out. Perhaps in hindsight given the injury it may have been harsh to label him as a quitter over it but his actions of smiling and generally looking like he didnt give a damn he lost the fight made it seem worse in my view. He did similar against Maidana and then threw away the Mayweather fight which was the opportunity of a lifetime. He never seemed particularly bothered.

I think that Benn also accumulated a whole heap of Brownie points for his conduct under fire against McClellan. Hardly fair, people would say, to accuse him of being a quitter when he was so patently a warrior.

Up to a point; the Benn-Watson fight had raised just the teensiest doubt in that direction years before. When Benn hit the canvas, it was a stiff jab that put him there, and there seemed little doubt that he could have got up if push had really come to shove. He'd have lost in any event, but still...

I'm being a little harsh, of course, but the OP's original point is reasonable. Some get a pass, some don't and fairness has little to do with it.

Do you not think Benn was the victim of an ever so slightly quick count, captain? Looked to me as if Nigel was simply looking to give himself as long as possible before rising, mistimed it slightly, and had the misfortune (or fortune, you could argue, as Watson had him beaten all ends up by then) to have a referee who allowed absolutely no margin for doubt?

captain carrantuohil wrote:Some get a pass, some don't and fairness has little to do with it.

Seems to be about the size of it as far as I can see.

You seem to be able to get away with maybe one quitting incident - provided you have shown heart in the past, or do again in the future. Ortiz was well on the way to erasing the Maidana debacle with his super-gutsy performance against Berto. But then he seemed to come off the rails against Floyd, and people had him down as mentally weak. By the time he had to quit against Lopez after fighting about 3 or 4 rounds getting banged on a badly broken jaw then everyone was ready to call him a quitter all over again. Not exactly fair. Ortiz has more balls than most humans, but he's been involved in a few too many of these incidents now and there'll always be a question mark over his heart - fairly or not.

Some people do label Benn a quitter, pretty sure the resident beefcake has referred to him as such on several occasions.

anyone who has been involved in the wars benn has can never be labelled a quitter.

unless you're reffering to his coke habit.

Benn was anything but a quitter. He may have quit in a fight, but that doesn't mean the same logic should be applied to him as a person throughout a very tough career.

Ortiz on the other hand, doesn't seem like he's overly bothered any more - a broken jaw is certainly painful - but in the heat of a match you tend not to feel much pain away from the nose, so I'd question the reason for him quitting, as its unlikely to be career threatening to carry on.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Benn was anything but a quitter. He may have quit in a fight, but that doesn't mean the same logic should be applied to him as a person throughout a very tough career.

Ortiz on the other hand, doesn't seem like he's overly bothered any more - a broken jaw is certainly painful - but in the heat of a match you tend not to feel much pain away from the nose, so I'd question the reason for him quitting, as its unlikely to be career threatening to carry on.

I think that's a little harsh on Ortiz re: the Lopez fight. I expect none of us, if so only a handful must know what it's like to have a jaw broken and continue to be punched on it.

I know Abraham and Ali have done it (albeit many say it was only in the last round against Norton and not early as Dundee said) but that doesn't mean every other fighter should.

I believe it was badly broken too with plates and everything needed to fix and must of hurt badly regardless of adrenaline.

Regarding Ortiz in general, he just doesn't seem to care if he wins or loses, which is a shame as he's P4P one of the most entertaining fighters in any weight IMO.

Valero's Conscience wrote:

Regarding Ortiz in general, he just doesn't seem to care if he wins or loses, which is a shame as he's P4P one of the most entertaining fighters in any weight IMO.

Think you have hit the nail on the head as to why he draws such vitriol, he just does not seem to care when it happens, remember after the Mayweather fight, given the ko punch was controversial to say the least you wpuld have expected him to be screaming blue murder or at least look a bit peed off but he was smiling and seemingly unflustered by it all, all a bit odd really.

Valero's Conscience wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Benn was anything but a quitter. He may have quit in a fight, but that doesn't mean the same logic should be applied to him as a person throughout a very tough career.

Ortiz on the other hand, doesn't seem like he's overly bothered any more - a broken jaw is certainly painful - but in the heat of a match you tend not to feel much pain away from the nose, so I'd question the reason for him quitting, as its unlikely to be career threatening to carry on.

I think that's a little harsh on Ortiz re: the Lopez fight. I expect none of us, if so only a handful must know what it's like to have a jaw broken and continue to be punched on it.

Very harsh, I think. It must have been agony to be repeatedly punched on a badly broken jaw. I don't hold that against Ortiz at all. Ortiz is certainly far from being 'soft' as some seem to imply. It's just, as VC points out, that he doesn't seem to care about winning/losing to quite the same ridiculous degree that some absolutely top champions appear to. Still a high end competitor though.

Oh I meant no disrespect to Ortiz - he's a good boxer and all that, I'd just question his mentality, quitting in such a big fight because of his jaw. What I meant was that there are others who've battled through, if he looked as if he was disappointed, then you can understand him quitting, but if he's all smiles you tend to think....wait...what?

Chris, you may be right about the Benn-Watson ending. I do recall that the odd question was raised at the time, when, one must remember, it was felt that Benn had been exposed as a one-dimensional bully. His subsequent career, of course, showed heart in abundance, and I don't mean to blacken his name. Genuine quitting is incredibly rare in the ring and very few boxers deserve to be labelled as such.

I know what you mean Jabmachine, but I guess each in jury is different.

He'll remain an enigma and a 'what could he have done' fighter probably.

I think he's made Mayweather Snr his coach, whether that's been verified?

McCall vs Lewis was the true example of quitting.....or a mental breakdown in the ring!

Ortiz seems to get it far worse than most others. I don't think anyone can accuse him of being a quitter in the Lopez fight unless they've fought on with a broken jaw. Bad enough to break something let alone have someone repeatedly target the affected area.

In the Maidana fight I think he simply lost to a tougher man in an all out war. I'll have to watch it again but Ortiz took some massive shots that would have stopped lesser men and didnt seem to know where he was at the time he stopped fighting. If one of those shots had KO'd him he would have been a gallant loser. The fact he fought on and then quit seems to be some kind of treason even if he thought he was in no position to continue.

There does seem to be one rule for some and a different for others. Duran is my favourite fighter and given what he achieved maybe deserves a pass but the no mas fight is far worse imo and nobody questions his balls in the ring.