Heineken Cup Round 2: Glasgow Warriors vs Ulster Rugby, Friday 19th October 8.00p.m. Scotstoun Stadium

First topic message reminder :

So Glasgow Warriors open their home account in the Heineken Cup at their new home, Scotstoun, against the form team in Europe, Ulster Rugby.

Will the injuries suffered in their opening matches of the season be too much for them or will the steely defense that served them well all last season and much of the game against Saints prevail?

Or will the much vaunted and dangerous team that Ulster have been slowly evolving into over the past few years be too much for the Glasgow outfit.

Team news and pre-match build up to follow but it already seems like this could be one of the top encounters of the weekend with Scotstoun close to a sellout 10,000....

GLASGOW TEAM

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Byron McGuigan
13 Peter Murchie
12 Peter Horne
11 Alex Dunbar
10 Ruaridh Jackson
9 Henry Pyrgos

1 Ryan Grant
2 Dougie Hall
3 Mike Cusack
4 Tom Ryder
5 Al Kellock (CAPTAIN)
6 Josh Strauss
7 Chris Fusaro
8 Ryan Wilson

SUBSTITUTES 16 Finlay Gillies 17 Ofa Fainga’anuku 18 Gordon Reid 19 Tim Swinson 20 Rob Harley 21 John Barclay 22 Scott Wight 23 Niko Matawalu

ULSTER TEAM

(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, R Pienaar;

(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (c), D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry, N Williams;

Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

George Carlin wrote:Notch - I know that it looks like Glasgow are getting their excuses in early, but if you stripped out eight of the equivalent Ulstermen (Pienaar, Afoa, Court and Jackson in particular), then you'll be starting to get a sense of how bad this is for the Weege.

Afoa is our best scrummaging 3, you still have your best tighthead in Cusack.
Jackson is our best 10, you still have your best 10 on the pitch.
Muller is our inspirational Captain and lineout general, Kellock is yours. He's still there.
Henry is our best 7, you still have the luxury of leaving John Barclay on the bench for the quality young star Fusaro!

I'll give you Pienaar and Court. Truth is, Ulsters irreplaceable players are Muller, Afoa, Henry, Pienaar, Payne and Wallace. If those six were gone, we'd be hard pressed to win.

Glasgow irreplacable men are Cusack, Kellock, Fusaro/Barclay, Cusiter and Morrison (for his defence and organisation). I'm not saying you don't have problems- I'm saying 3 out of 5 of your best players isnae bad.

In no sense is Morrison irreplacable, Notch. He's hardly played at all this season, praise be.

MrsP wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Hopefully teams are announced soon, so we can really start looking forward to this and disecting teams

They have been.

Just waiting to hear if Seymour is playing or not.

Opps mixed that.

Glasgow Warriors : (tbc) Stuart Hogg, Byron McGuigan, Peter Murchie, Peter Horne, Alex Dunbar, Ruaridh Jackson, Henry Pyrgos, Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall, Mike Cusack, Tom Ryder, Al Kellock (capt), Josh Strauss, Chris Fusaro, Ryan Wilson. Replacements : Finlay Gillies, Ofa Fainga'anuku, Gordon Reid, Tim Swinson, Rob Harley, John Barclay, Scott Wight, Niko Matawalu.

Ulster: J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, R Pienaar; T Court, R Best, J Afoa; J Muller (capt), D Tuohy; I Henderson, C Henry, N Williams.

Replacements: R Herring, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Notch -

You don't think DTH (Glasgow's top try scorer), Sean Lamont, Rory Lamont, and arguably the 3 of the 1st choice front row forwards (Lowe, Welsh & MacArthur) are key players?

Sure Glasgow will still be strong at the breakdown adn the set piece but they have practically none of their best finishers.

Or if they will win by kicking points as you have suggested you dont think they'll struggle without their better kicking fly half (Weir)?

It's true they are hard up with injuries. I just don't buy the doom and gloom. You're certainly not missing your 8 best players. The spine of the team is still there. As for Weir... when he's played against Ulster in the past his up and unders have just handed us possession back. Jacksons greater variety is harder for us to deal with.

If Jackson misses a load of penalties and thats decisive, then fair enough.

I don't for a second expect Ulster to lose this match, being perfectly honest, I just think theres an element of exaggeration here. It's bad, but it's not going to be the winning and losing of the game. Glasgow are not going to cave because all the players in the areas they need to stop us playing are still there.

Captain_Sensible wrote:In no sense is Morrison irreplacable, Notch. He's hardly played at all this season, praise be.

I just feel like he's a defensive lynchpin. I think his work in defence is outstanding. When we've struggled to break Glasgow down he's usually up and around the top of the tackle count. They've no-one else of similar stature in the backline and hopefully we can make some yards up the middle in his absence.

Shame about the feet he has instead of hands, but you can't have it all eh?

I think he's a wonderful rugby player so long as he doesn't have the ball.

So Pienaar starts, Ferris not making it, are the big points.

Feel sorry for P Marshall, gets MOTM and loses his starting place.

Imagine we can rest Ferris and still be happy with the back row, that wouldn't have happened last year, and Wilson has to come back as well.

Fo rall the injury talk it still looks a very good Glasgow team, ok 11-14 are unfamilar, but I think Notch is right the game will be won and lost upfront.

Forwards decide games, backs by how much!

Morrison is a bit of a flair vaccum.

He is a 10 thumbed numpty with the ball in hand. He could be forgiven if he crashed into the contact like Jamie Roberts or Nonu. I have seen him out on the town and he is not a small man. He is a big lump of a man but he just seems to carry the ball into contact like a 10 year old girl.

Dunbar and Horne are forging a good partnership and it's nice to see an alternative centre combination to Scott and NDL for the Scotland jersies.

I'm grateful Morrison hasn't had much game time tbh.

Notch - grand to hear you are a fan of Morrison. He's hardly played for Glasgow this season. And if there's a god in heaven, he never will.

We'll swap you the G Dawg for Cave in that case. Ah, go on, go on, you will, you will.

I would also accept a king size Toblerone as fair exchange for Morrison.

Haha, obviously I wouldn't want Morrison anywhere near our 12 shirt- you already sold us a pup in Rob Dewey!

The point I'm making is, Glasgow aren't the Harlem Globetrotters of rugby. They are a side that consistently spring upsets by slowing the ball down, doing the basics well, playing in the right areas of the park and defending with incredible commitment. A limited side, but dangerous. And hard to put away.

We take them lightly, they'll turn it into a dogfight. We want a quick, wide game and they want to turn it into a slog. You want to play rugby, you don't want Morrison at 12. But I'm only afraid of Glasgow when they are trying to stop us playing rugby. And they still have the players to do that and those players have done that very well in the past.

So I'm not taking it for granted one bit.

Obviously part of my wariness is that Ulster have been winning, but rarely playing to their potential. Should we 'click' I have high hopes. But we've only really performed in one game, against mediocre opponents in the Pro12.

We're really yet to show what we're capable of.

Notch wrote:Obviously part of my wariness is that Ulster have been winning, but rarely playing to their potential. Should we 'click' I have high hopes. But we've only really performed in one game, against mediocre opponents in the Pro12.

We're really yet to show what we're capable of.

lets hope no Cardiff Blues fans see that.

Sorry about Dewey. We didn't mean it. We actually didn't think that you were seriously going to play him - we thought that you wanted him for Belfast town hall pantomime instead.

Although to be fair, when you consider the size of him and what you paid, you got plenty of donkey for your money.

Confirmation that Seymour is out, no further info yet
www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/19350.php

One week ban, minimum for the offence was four weeks but reduced due to his clean record. So pray for no injuries to outside backs tomorrow!

It's all right, Pat. Toonie has a Cunning Plan.

Doubtless involving Matawalu at lock and Cusack transferred to left wing.

George Carlin wrote:It's all right, Pat. Toonie has a Cunning Plan.

Doubtless involving Matawalu at lock and Cusack transferred to left wing.

Cusack will be fine... he has pace to burn.

George Carlin wrote:It's all right, Pat. Toonie has a Cunning Plan.

Doubtless involving Matawalu at lock and Cusack transferred to left wing.

That or he's planning a spectacular comeback of his own!

Call me stupid, but I firmly believe that Friday's pack could stand toe to toe with any in the Rabo. Also, great to see Harley involved, (with his pace Toonie might consider him a replacement 12/13 or am I joking?). As long as we don't lose 3 backs then it's a case of Wight at 10 and Mata at 9 or wing and Dunbar pushed back in to 13. So really apart from a complete lack of wingers what is there to worry about? Oh and my son has persuaded me to come out of retirement and play alongside him when he embarks on that great journey that is "social rugby". At 54 what could go wrong?

I think Notch has a point (although he needs to tone the baseless optimism down). I think the 5-day turnaround might be a more problematic factor for Glasgow.

Not sure what will happen here at all, to be honest.

jimbopip wrote:Call me stupid, but I firmly believe that Friday's pack could stand toe to toe with any in the Rabo. Also, great to see Harley involved, (with his pace Toonie might consider him a replacement 12/13 or am I joking?). As long as we don't lose 3 backs then it's a case of Wight at 10 and Mata at 9 or wing and Dunbar pushed back in to 13. So really apart from a complete lack of wingers what is there to worry about? Oh and my son has persuaded me to come out of retirement and play alongside him when he embarks on that great journey that is "social rugby". At 54 what could go wrong?

I'd keep quiet about that jimbopip.

The rate some of the Glasgow fans are going on about injuries you might just get a wee phone call about 6pm Friday!

George Carlin wrote:Sorry about Dewey. We didn't mean it. We actually didn't think that you were seriously going to play him - we thought that you wanted him for Belfast town hall pantomime instead.

Although to be fair, when you consider the size of him and what you paid, you got plenty of donkey for your money.

You do a massive disservice to Donkeys GC. I reckon that amount of donkey would have been very useful.

Great to see the Ginger Tackle Monster back in the 22. Serious thoughts for Ulster if the large chap starts warming up - ouch. he only has about a thousand tackles to make up his season ! Pack apart a very novice set of backs - Jacko my son stand up and be counted. C'mon The Warriors

PS Now a sell out I believe

Wilson off, Harley on and Strauss to 8. Now that's a tasty backrow

Paddy Wallace to make his 50th HC appearance in tonights game.

Paddy's bandages

I hope the team get there okay!

I hear the Warriors are so worried that they closed the airport in an effort to put off the match!

Mrs P as far as I know they went yesterday

Ooohhh I am liking the look of this Ravens team. That pack could do a job in the Pro 12 most weeks and theres a fair amount of young talent in the backline. Big game on Sunday against Bristol.

Ulster Ravens team to play Bristol, British & Irish Cup, Sun 21st October, Memorial Stadium (kick off 3.00pm):
(15-9): Peter Nelson; Ricky Andrew, Michael Allen, Luke Marshall, Chris Cochrane; Stuart Olding, Michael Heaney;
(1-8): Richard Lutton, Niall Annett, Adam Macklin, Alan O'Connor, Neil McComb (capt), Robbie Diack, Ali Birch, Roger Wilson;
Replacements (16-22): Nigel Brady, Kyle McCall, James Simpson, Conor Joyce, Blane McIlroy, Niall O’Connor, Stuart McCloskey.

Anyone else picked up on how Olding is starting at 10 ahead of NOC? Interesting.

Adam Macklin is on the bench in Glasgow!!!

I wouldn't read too much into that Clive. NOC was back in the HC squad on the back of his performance against Cardiff Ravens last week.

MrsP wrote:Adam Macklin is on the bench in Glasgow!!!

So is Luke Marshall.
Unless they have to come on early then they will probably play maybe 15-20 minutes and have all day Saturday to recover. Shouldn't be a problem for these kids.

They are really taking the B&I Cup seriously arn't they? And rightly so. Great for development in terms of hunger and passion to be really going for something whilst at the same time hoping to break through to the starting XV.

If Marshall and Macklin play anymore than 15 minutes they'll probably just get withdrawn from the B&I Cup team anyway.

I hadn't noticed the Ravens' game was on Sunday. I was thinking the lads would have a bit of a dash down to Bristol for Saturday afternoon!

Been away for a few days so hence the slow response. Answer to a few points

We have 4 Hookers in the HC squad as you have to nominate 10 front row players and we only had 6 available props. Hence why Paris and Nathan were not included.

I was totally against the 6-2 split last week but can understand it this adding an extra forward instead of another scrum half is worth the gamble.

Injuries (especially in the backs) have not made a win impossible, far from it. But I would have thought even the most diehard of Ulster fans would appreciate that Glasgow are well below full strength!

Missing our 4 best wingers and clearly our best 2 half backs is a massive blow. Even Hogg who is playing has hardly any gametime this season and is only playing tonight because we have no other options. Forwards are in better shape but in the front row the depth is not there. Compare Welsh, McArthur and Low coming off the bench to Reid, Gilies and a Tongan LH covering TH and its night as day. I know few teams ever get the luxury of picking a full strength 23 but to be missing the following who would have all been part of our 23 if available is incredible considering its so early in the season.

Low, McArthur, Welsh, Cusiter, Weir, DTH, R Lamont and S Lamont

Plus the following who would have been next in line to cover injuries and could do a good job covering.

Kalman, Seymour and Morrison!

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Injuries (especially in the backs) have not made a win impossible, far from it. But I would have thought even the most diehard of Ulster fans would appreciate that Glasgow are well below full strength!

Oh aye. It's a sign of respect that I'm still very wary of this Glasgow side. Seems like the Glasgow fans are the ones writing their own team off despite the strong core of proven players in the team. Always the glass is half-empty...

Scotland has a bit of a problem with doom and gloom in sport; scottish sports fans tend to become very pessimistic when things go against them. There's always a lot of negativity surrounding their teams. Was heartened to see recent declarations of Scotlands ambition to win the RWC- a step in the right direction in changing that national sporting low self-esteem. Let the mockers mock, wish there was the same ambition at the IRFU.

Of course, not sure the SRU has the intent to back up that claim with genuinely innovative ideas that can narrow the gap on the best but thats another post...

I wonder if Hendy will retain his place in the match day 23 for the HEC when Ferris and Wilson are fully fit. In fact it is going to be very interesting to see who misses out in the back row, before this season started I thought Wilson would be a certain starter. Williams has become instrumental to this Ulster team though.

Yeah it's wonderful.

Stephen Ferris and Roger Wilson will hopefully start our next Pro12 game against the Dragons and we'll get to see what they offer. It has to be said Ferris is yet to scale the same heights this season. He's only played 2 games; you would expect him to rise to the challenge the other guys are offering and be a key man once he comes back from injury, but his place is in no way guaranteed!

Notch wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Injuries (especially in the backs) have not made a win impossible, far from it. But I would have thought even the most diehard of Ulster fans would appreciate that Glasgow are well below full strength!

Oh aye. It's a sign of respect that I'm still very wary of this Glasgow side. Seems like the Glasgow fans are the ones writing their own team off despite the strong core of proven players in the team. Always the glass is half-empty...
Scotland has a bit of a problem with doom and gloom in sport; scottish sports fans tend to become very pessimistic when things go against them. There's always a lot of negativity surrounding their teams. Was heartened to see recent declarations of Scotlands ambition to win the RWC- a step in the right direction in changing that national sporting low self-esteem. Let the mockers mock, wish there was the same ambition at the IRFU.

Of course, not sure the SRU has the intent to back up that claim with genuinely innovative ideas that can narrow the gap on the best but thats another post...

Ok I'll change it up a bit.

Ulster team looks weak. Glasgow by 25+

Notch wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Injuries (especially in the backs) have not made a win impossible, far from it. But I would have thought even the most diehard of Ulster fans would appreciate that Glasgow are well below full strength!

Oh aye. It's a sign of respect that I'm still very wary of this Glasgow side.

Respect yer bollix Notch Ulster by 50! SUFTUM! ..... .....

Scot Abroad wrote:Ok I'll change it up a bit.

Ulster team looks weak. Glasgow by 25+

Thats it!

The other side of the coin is that us Ulster fans have such a chip on our shoulder about other teams writing us off that we find it difficult to enjoy wins if we're not making someone, somewhere eat their words

Having a little flutter on this one - Nick Williams to score a try at 16/5

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I wonder if Hendy will retain his place in the match day 23 for the HEC when Ferris and Wilson are fully fit. In fact it is going to be very interesting to see who misses out in the back row, before this season started I thought Wilson would be a certain starter. Williams has become instrumental to this Ulster team though.

Wilson won't have become a bad player just because he has been injured. Wait and see what he brings to the side before you write him off. Yes Williams has been a revelation, but Wilson has a lot to offer this team. Lets give him the opportunity to prove that.

Notch wrote:Yeah it's wonderful.

Stephen Ferris and Roger Wilson will hopefully start our next Pro12 game against the Dragons and we'll get to see what they offer. It has to be said Ferris is yet to scale the same heights this season. He's only played 2 games; you would expect him to rise to the challenge the other guys are offering and be a key man once he comes back from injury, but his place is in no way guaranteed!

Feic man you are quick to write off a guy who is recognised as one of the best blindsides in the world. Played most of last season half fit and for all we know played this season not fully fit.

SUFTUM

Rava wrote:

Notch wrote:Yeah it's wonderful.

Stephen Ferris and Roger Wilson will hopefully start our next Pro12 game against the Dragons and we'll get to see what they offer. It has to be said Ferris is yet to scale the same heights this season. He's only played 2 games; you would expect him to rise to the challenge the other guys are offering and be a key man once he comes back from injury, but his place is in no way guaranteed!

Feic man you are quick to write off a guy who is recognised as one of the best blindsides in the world. Played most of last season half fit and for all we know played this season not fully fit.

Thats the irish fans for ya heck one of the leinster fans on here has already wrote off Quinn Roux and he's only played 2 games for us. We love writing our own players off.

Stop sticking up for these guys Rava.

Yer shoite Ferris. You can clear off as well Bowe.......

I'm ready!

SUFTB!!!

ten mins till kick off! can't wait, come on warriors!!!