Ben Botica to play for England

He qualifies, due to a British passport. The former North Shore boy, and NZ schoolboy rep could be selected anytime. His dad wasn't half bad at union and league (until he did his legs at the Warriors). Interesting to see how he goes for Quins.

Where did he play last year?

HQ Matt - he played for North Harbour, which was his Dad's old team.

Didn't Frano last play for them in 99? I know he finished his career there...

He's played for the Blues and Biarritz as well. Traveled quite a bit it seems!

Why did North Harbour let him go anyone? He seems very good and isn't exactly chasing the money, he stated in an interview that his only reason for leaving is because his contract in NZ wasn't going to be renewed.

To be fair, there’s a long pecking order developing in NZ for the flyhalf spot:

Carter
Cruden
Barrett
Slade
Tom Taylor
Tyler Bleyendaal
Gareth Anscombe

And inevitably people emerging from the ITM Cup....it’s no wonder he took out the ‘other option’

I'm not sure. It maybe that he wasn't inline line for a start at the Blues. I'm guessing he thought he wasn't going anywhere in hurry in NZ. It's pretty cut throat in terms of developing talent. You'll earn more money and see Europe at the same time. not bad option for a young sportsman.

Rightly or wrongly...I think this will start another qualification - England foreigners debate.

Sad if it does Geordie, the kid has a British passport

Ben Botica would have an English passport, as he would have been born when Frano was playing for Wigan.

Its getting to be a bit of a trend these North harbour boys, going overseas and picking up International jerseys for other countries.

Maybe the black away strip was intentional after all...

You couldn't make this stuff up.

Sure after the long line of failures with NZ born 12's, England must give some of their home grown talent a go!

Way too soon to consider him

Didn't Frano play for the Scarlets to back in the day

I admit I don't know much about this guy, but we should focus on selecting home grown talent that would get into the All Blacks team; not overseas talent that wouldn't.

I'm not sure there will be as much angst as for other payers. I understand he spent most his 1st 7-8 years in the UK whilst his dad played for Wigan. Hence his passport.

Does having a British passport actually qualify him for England? He was born in New Zealand, not England. I don't think the IRB regulations say anything about passports or citizenship, probably because different coutries have different requirements for this so it wouldn't be a level playing field. The only ways you can qualify for a country are being born there, having a parent or grandparent born there, or completing three years residency immediately before your first cap. The residency as a child wouldn't count, he'd have to go through it again. I'm not arguing rights or wrongs but I think those are the rules.

Does having a British passport not also mean that he could play for either Scotland, Wales or even Ireland (given the NI bit)?????

Don't be hogging the idea of 'Britishness' now, you English chaps......

Pat_Mustard wrote:Does having a British passport actually qualify him for England? He was born in New Zealand, not England. I don't think the IRB regulations say anything about passports or citizenship, probably because different coutries have different requirements for this so it wouldn't be a level playing field. The only ways you can qualify for a country are being born there, having a parent or grandparent born there, or completing three years residency immediately before your first cap. The residency as a child wouldn't count, he'd have to go through it again. I'm not arguing rights or wrongs but I think those are the rules.

Indeed.


REGULATION 8. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR NATIONAL
REPRESENTATIVE TEAMS
8.1 Subject to Regulation 8.2, a Player may only play for the senior fifteen-a-
side National Representative Team, the next senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team and the senior National Representative Sevens Team
of the Union of the country in which:
(a) he was born; or
(b) one parent or grandparent was born; or
(c) he has completed thirty six consecutive months of Residence
immediately preceding the time of playing.

Lets see how the guy goes for a season or two first eh?

We have Burns, Ford, Twelvetrees, Barritt etc etc etc all well ahead of him at the mo...AND many younger home grown lads coming through aswell.

Im not adverse to players from other countries whove learned their skills here...the world is a small place now and people travel. I do hate the 3 year rule...but thats for another thread.......

I am very adverse to a team whos accents sound like the roll call of the united flamin nations!

Simon shaw was born in Kenya,doesn't make him a masai warrior.botica must prove himself to be better than what we already have over the course of the season before he gets anywhere near the saxons.doesn't send out the right message otherwise.

Sorry...ill steer this back on topic.

Decent prospect...lets see how he goes over the next season or two...

Masai warriors and saxons? Yeah...a bit far fetched but a good summer blockbuster, I suppose.

Laurie, ain't no such thing as an English passort. GB&NI passport alone might qualify him for any one of 4 nations, subject to him meeting other criteria such as ancestors etc. He will of course try to pick the strongest nation

I think that's why he'd be leaving NZ ... the strongest nation don't need him

gregortree wrote:Laurie, ain't no such thing as an English passort. GB&NI passport alone might qualify him for any one of 4 nations, subject to him meeting other criteria such as ancestors etc. He will of course try to pick the strongest nation

Ah, well, Wales it is then, boi bach.

no,

LordDowlais wrote:

gregortree wrote:Laurie, ain't no such thing as an English passort. GB&NI passport alone might qualify him for any one of 4 nations, subject to him meeting other criteria such as ancestors etc. He will of course try to pick the strongest nation

Ah, well, Wales it is then, boi bach.

Yes they looked strong taking a 3-0 beating down under...

Mr Botica is apparently very methodical.
He'll look at a GB map, check where Wigan is, look at the IRB table, check how the GB nations rank, and come to the logical conclusion:

PS: he'd be most welcome to join his Kiwi mate Cowon at Glaws, as a Burns backup.

The logical conclusion being that he looks at the IRB table and sighs heavily whilst holding back on a few tears.

"Oh well, it wasn't to be".

I will be serious about this for a moment though, why o why are we continuing to do this in Great Britain and indeed Ireland ? England has enough players to be truly dominant and people should be poaching off them, not the other way around. I just cannot for the life of me understand it, I am Welsh and if I were a pro rugby player, I would only want to play for Wales, I could never see myself as anything else, my mother was born in England to a Welsh father and an English Mother, but I have lived in Wales all my life, my mother moved to Wales before she was one year old and both of us and my brother all see ourselves as 100% Welsh, how can people just change allegiances at a drop of a hat ? It all just baffles me, I do not imagine any of the New Zealand, Australians or South Africans grow up hoping to don the jersey of either Wales, England, Scotland or Ireland so what is going on ? Something must be seriously wrong if we are capping players who are not good enough for their native country, how are we ever going to match the top three countries if we are looking at players they do not want, these things really do confuse me, we are a professional rugby nation, so our players should be as good as everybody else's if they are not questions should be asked.

Dowlais...i think the vast number of 606'ers would agree 100% with that...and has been discussed many times....and is for another thread.
I think increasing the 3 year rule to 6-7-8-9-10 would help greatly.

Start a thread GF.

Mate that topic has been done to death...and i can list the answers..

1) We all agree its wrong for the 3 year rule...
2) Birth and Parents countries count
3) Grandparents countries shouldnt
4) Youngsters who have learnt rugby in said country are fine

Blah blah blah...

5) They come for the tourism and stay for the culture...

Let's get some perspective. The lad's played 60 minutes of Heino rugby and played well enough to bear comparison with Nick Evans, who despite being an NZ reject would unquestionably walk into any other international squad if he were eligible and willing.

It's a bit of fun to speculate that, having some ties to England, he could be an option for England in a problem position. Or possibly two. For me, I don't particularly mind that he was born overseas as long as he's committed to his chosen nation. The yardstick for me is Mike Catt. EQP through his granny, IIRC, but would anyone seriously object to his having played for England or question his commitment to the country (he's lived here for 20-odd years now)?

But before that even becomes a serious option, he's got to demonstrate that he can string some performances together (something that's been a problem for him in the past).

Poorfour wrote:Let's get some perspective. The lad's played 60 minutes of Heino rugby and played well enough to bear comparison with Nick Evans, who despite being an NZ reject would unquestionably walk into any other international squad if he were eligible and willing.

It's a bit of fun to speculate that, having some ties to England, he could be an option for England in a problem position. Or possibly two. For me, I don't particularly mind that he was born overseas as long as he's committed to his chosen nation. The yardstick for me is Mike Catt. EQP through his granny, IIRC, but would anyone seriously object to his having played for England or question his commitment to the country (he's lived here for 20-odd years now)?

But before that even becomes a serious option, he's got to demonstrate that he can string some performances together (something that's been a problem for him in the past).

Finally the voice of reason.

Saw him play when evans went off last week for quinns. He's certainly got his old mans boot. Kicked well.

blackcanelion wrote:He qualifies, due to a British passport. The former North Shore boy, and NZ schoolboy rep could be selected anytime. His dad wasn't half bad at union and league (until he did his legs at the Warriors). Interesting to see how he goes for Quins.

it's the equivalent of picking an untested martin johnson as england manager....utterly ridiculous proposition which we all know with hindsight was barking mad so no doubt it will happen pretty soon

mowgli wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:He qualifies, due to a British passport. The former North Shore boy, and NZ schoolboy rep could be selected anytime. His dad wasn't half bad at union and league (until he did his legs at the Warriors). Interesting to see how he goes for Quins.

it's the equivalent of picking an untested martin johnson as england manager....utterly ridiculous proposition which we all know with hindsight was barking mad so no doubt it will happen pretty soon

Ah yes...i was waiting for you to put your tuppence worth in....

Taylorman wrote:Saw him play when evans went off last week for quinns. He's certainly got his old mans boot. Kicked well.

Great another Farrell....

How did this thread start? Has Botica come out and said he wants to play for England?

As a couple of people above have pointed out, a British passport isn't enough to make him eligible as he wasn't born here and doesn't have English parentage, he'd have to go through the residency qualification, so it's not even a possibility for 3 years.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Saw him play when evans went off last week for quinns. He's certainly got his old mans boot. Kicked well.

Great another Farrell....

Thing is, he kicked well, but, not being native English, that's not all he did. He ran, passed and tackled well, and controlled the game, albeit against a limited Biarritz side. That's what's got people all overexcited.

gregortree wrote:Laurie, ain't no such thing as an English passort. GB&NI passport alone might qualify him for any one of 4 nations, subject to him meeting other criteria such as ancestors etc. He will of course try to pick the strongest nation

Hang on this is crazy, so are you telling me that Welsh people dont travel on Wales passports?

No most of them dont have passports....

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Saw him play when evans went off last week for quinns. He's certainly got his old mans boot. Kicked well.

Great another Farrell....

Except his distribution was pretty good and his running very good, broke the line on his own several times. And being at Quins he can offload too

[quote="GeordieFalcon"]No most of them dont have passports.... [/quote

Are they allowed to travel?

So what happens? do they just rock on up to the check in counter, buy a ticket, jump on a plane and grab a seat, probably one of the ones just behind the driver..?

Nah their movement is restricted as much as possible...so that its only on sites like these that we have to listen to their verbal c**p....

Forced corset wearing imposed on the Welsh? I think they'd have a case if they brought it to the International Court of Human Rights.

Thats a relief to hear, because I think if they were left to just wander about uncontrolled they could become a noxious pest.