could brook beat alexander...?

Based on their recent showings? I do want Brook to do well but am still not fully convinced, though I'm nearly there...the only holes i see are a slightly padded record and a dodgy defense (I believe his that his conditioning/fitness will have improved since the Jones fight, he looked great at the weigh in)
Alexander-Brook will happen early next year I expect. How would you see it going?

I think he can, never been impressed with Alexander and his performance this morning didn't change my mind.

I think hes capable of winning, but its going to be a big step up to what he has fought so far and its likely to take place in the U.S which is another thing he will have to contend with.

Alexander can blow hot and cold but hes an awkward sort of a fighter that will probably require Brook to try and figue him out which will be a test of the mental side of Brooks game. I think Alexander is talented but can lack decisiveness and initiative in fights. Sometimes too happy to let his opponent work and fight at his own pace.

I would say Alexander with the home advantage and greater top level experience should start as favourite but I imagine it will be a very competitve fixture that Brook will be a live underdog in.

I think brook has a great chance and Alexander hasn't impressed me in the slightest except for the urango and Maidana fights but Maidana at welterweight was made for him

He only has 1 defeat to Bradley (which he tied to get out of and did) but imo he was lucky to get the wins vs both Kotelnik (who isn't anything exceptional) and Matthysse (who like Maidana should have been an easy night given his style)

He wont put pressure on brook as he fights off the back foot and ties up when on the inside. Brook-Alexander won't be an entertaining affair and will be cagey but if brook can win the battle of the jabs which he has a great jab then he will win as Devon isn't the most accurate and is easy to catch as bailey showed when he did throw

I would say Brook holds a little more power too, Alexander wasn't a puncher at LWW and doesn't seem to have improved since the jump up in weight

I don't see the fact it'll be in the US being too much of a problem unless Devon gets a home fight as that's where he has won a couple of dodgy decisions, but if its in a neutral venue then brook shouldn't be worried as Alexander isn't a big draw so won't be overrawed with boo's, especially as he has a big fanbase that will travel well like Hattons fan used to

I think Brook is the real deal. There were a few ?s about his stamina after the last fight, but it also proved he can come through a fight.... We did not really get to see that test again last night as he made such easy work of it but clearly was at him best.

power and accuracy are a deadly combination and I think Brook has that... I see him beating Alexander, although going to the USA might make it a hard nights work as he has looked nervous when on the road.

Will judge Brook after he fights anyone decent, that Salvida was a waste of time, Hearn saying he wants 50-50 against Khan is ridiculous, what does Brook bring to the table a win against Matthew Hatton?

I think he'd beat Alexander, it'd be a very good display of skill as Alexander is a very good boxer, however neither has much power (Brook finishing with a jab doesn't count as I never rated his opponent) and Alexander will likely look for a decision.

Brook will take a decision if the judges are fair, but Alexander will if the judges are biased, and it won't be viewed as a robbery as it'll be close and caes will be made for his victory.

It will be a chess match and a stinker. That said, I haven't seen anything from Alexander to worry Kell. UD for Kell wherever it's held.

matchroom are thinking of putting this snoozefest of a fight on box office PPV woooo! in their words "it commands ppv"

also talks of khan-brook box office ppv - which i guess is okay-ish

Not after Sky said no more PPV it isn't. Neither is ok.

I don't mind a chess match, that doesn't make it a stinker. Grabbing, holding and a complete mess of styles could make it a stinker.

I rate Brook, have done for a while, but he ko'd this guy with a left jab. says a lot about Salvida IMO. That said, Brook v Khan in 2013 would be tasty

BallchinianMuffwig wrote:(I believe his that his conditioning/fitness will have improved since the Jones fight, he looked great at the weigh in)

It's impossible to tell by the fact he looked nice in his boxers on a set of scales. You can't judge conditioning by physique. Kell always looks in good nick, even if he isn't. Only time will tell how he deals with a world class operator over the championship distance.

I raised a few eyebrows earlier this year when I boldly stated that I'd fancy Brook against any Welterweight in the world, aside from Floyd and Manny. In spite of the bubble around him being pricked (not quite burst), I still believe that and I'd certainly pick him to outbox Alexander.

I just haven't been as impressed with Alexander as some others have. He looked well against Maidana, admittedly, but I can't shake the memory of how easily he was discouraged against Bradley when he was in the firing line, nor how repetitive his attacks became against Kotelnik and Matthysse once he couldn't establish a strong foothold in the fight. I just think Brook would have too many angles and a little too much speed for him.

Neither man is going to make the other chase, but in the centre of the ring I think Brook can accumulate points safely enough against this guy.

I don't want to hear talk of Khan-Brook from either camp until Brook has the IBF strap and Khan has officially finished with 140 lb in any case. Besides, if Brook does land the IBF title, he may just have the chance to take on Bradley. Regardless of how big a Brook-Khan showdown would be on these shores, surely it would have to play second fiddle to that?

Is there all that much differance between 140 and 147 alot of the time I wonder? The way the cut weight and rehydrate I get the impression alot of them weigh rather similar on fight night.

No offence but I don't see how saying brook will be 3rd best behind floyd and manny at welter is a bold statement.

Welterweight is a good division but not great, every fighter has obvious flaws as have been exposed in one way or another. Guerrero has no power and tires late, berto can't take a shot and has poor stamina, Ortiz has a poor defence and looks for the easy way put, Marquez isn't really big at welterweight and is slowing down, cotto isn't going coming down and Bradley can't punch

I would actually give Brook a great chance against pacquiao. Pacquiao has looked awful imo for a while now and brook has the youth, jab and skill to exploit pacquiaos decline

I wouldnt really agree that Pacquaio has looked awful lately. He might have slipped from his best which was an extemelly high standard but I still thought he beat Bradley in his last fight who I rate quite highly.

Brook just hasnt been operating at that kind of level so there are still question marks for me.

I reckon Pac has slipped sufficiently and Kell could take him now. Plus Pac always had problems with boxers with a jab and good timing. Kell for me in a surprisingly easy win.

alma wrote:After the Garcia fight, Khan said he made 140 pretty easily. Is it a risk going to 147?

There seem to be mixed signals from Khan when it comes to this issue, mate. He did say that he can still make Light-Welter without too much bother not long ago, but then the other week on Ringside he said directly that he does "kill himself" trying to get down to 140 lb, and that he thinks he'd be a better and stronger fighter at the higher weight.

He's big at Light-Welter in any case, so I think he could hold his own at 147 lb. It's also worth noting that, with Rios, Matthyse, Garcia etc all at 140 lb, there seem to be less devastating punchers at the higher weight. Of the top Welters, there's really only Maidana, who Khan's already beaten, who you'd put in that huge hitter category. With Khan's suspect whiskers and all others things considered, I think there'd be good value in Khan moving up eventually.

But Chris who actually hits harder a heavy handed 140lber or a fairly big punching 147lber, I wouldn't be convinced that the likes of Rios or Garcia hit any harder than say Brook, Berto or Ortiz if at all.

Hmmm, Brook would beat Pacquaio rather easily but Im guessing you tip Khan to beat him at 147 azania? Or the same Bradley that you thought got a gift of a decision against Pacquaio?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:But Chris who actually hits harder a heavy handed 140lber or a fairly big punching 147lber, I wouldn't be convinced that the likes of Rios or Garcia hit any harder than say Brook, Berto or Ortiz if at all.

It's hard to measure for sure, Ghosty, but the bottom line for me is that there are fighters who can finish a title fight with a single hand at 140, whereas they're few and far, far between at 147. And if Khan's weight is now a problem at the lower weight, then there's a chance he'll hold a shot better at Welter in any case.

Seanusarrilius wrote:I rate Brook, have done for a while, but he ko'd this guy with a left jab. says a lot about Salvida IMO. That said, Brook v Khan in 2013 would be tasty

I dont think it was just that jab, he cough him with some good shots and you could see they were telling, that jab just finished it off and to be fair it was more powerful because the guy actually moved into it as well.. what ever punch it was you could see it connected very well..

Ortiz had a lot heavier hands at 140 than Garcia and Rios have at 140, and he has carried it up well. Berto hits very hard as well, and has the speed to get his shots off regularly unlike slower fighters like Rios.

I personally don't think it's a great idea for khan to move to welterweight. He weighs around 152 lbs outside the ring which isn't big at all. He does rehydrate but so does every fighter these days, I'm pretty sure he has never weighed above 148lb on fight night while the likes of Rios, Matthysse, Garcia, Maidana, Ortiz and Alexander have all weighed above the 150 mark

If he adds muscle he could slow down or it can make him tired as the fight goes on, which happens already as while his punch resistant may improve, I don't think it'll improve enough to take on a welterweight at full pace for 12 rounds. His power too isn't great and can't see him hitting any harder as he goes up in weight

manos de piedra wrote:Hmmm, Brook would beat Pacquaio rather easily but Im guessing you tip Khan to beat him at 147 azania? Or the same Bradley that you thought got a gift of a decision against Pacquaio?

I have never been too sold on Pac. His record above SFW has been against guys made to measure. Great fighter regardless, but he has a glaring weakness against boxers with an authoritative jab, accurate and with good timing. I had him beating Bradley by 3 points, but Kell is a better boxer and harder puncher that Tim (imo). Plus Pac has slipped and slowed down a lot. Pac will take out Khan inside 4 rounds.

I can't honestly believe I've just read that you guys think Brook would take Pacman. Really? Who has Brook been in with to even mention him in the same breath as Manny?

I think a few of you guys need to disembark the 'Kell Brook Hype Train'.

SharkSoul wrote:I can't honestly believe I've just read that you guys think Brook would take Pacman. Really? Who has Brook been in with to even mention him in the same breath as Manny?

I think a few of you guys need to disembark the 'Kell Brook Hype Train'.

I'm not on any Brook hype train. He is damn good. Furthermore who did Ali beat before he beat Liston? Who did Sugar Ray beat before he beat a great in Benitez? Its not a question of who they beat in order to see if they can beat one of the best in the division. Its what style they have, how good they are in terms of their fundamentals and how good is the "great" in his older age?

Not sure I agree with this.

Brook to beat Khan now: yes.

Brook to beat Pac now: no.

Brook is a very good fighter, and looked very impressive yesterday, but lets not go crazy.

No but its just when you call Khan/Brook a pick em but say Brook beats Pacquaio easily its hard to understand. If Brook is indeed good enough to beat Pacquiao easily at this stage of their careers then Khan hasnt a hope of beating him at 147.

I also believe that Brook beats Khan, but he would get dominated and stopped by Pacquiao, no question.

BoxingFan88 wrote:I also believe that Brook beats Khan, but he would get dominated and stopped by Pacquiao, no question.

Dominated and stopped, on what evidence. Brook is in his prime unlike the last boxer pacquiao dominated (Mosley) and had Bradley hit harder he would have deserved the W. Pacquiao found him hard to tag cleanly, despite him hurting both ankles in the 4th, but when they had exchanges pacquiao walked through Bradley's lack of power which he couldn't do to brook who is a natural welter with quick hands

manos de piedra wrote:No but its just when you call Khan/Brook a pick em but say Brook beats Pacquaio easily its hard to understand. If Brook is indeed good enough to beat Pacquiao easily at this stage of their careers then Khan hasnt a hope of beating him at 147.

Its the styles they both have. Khan excels against boxers whereas Pac doesn't. And Brook is a boxer. He beats him at this stage of Pac's career. A subtle difference.

Well if Carson Jones can go life and death with Brook then Pacquiao would have dominated that version of him and probably stopped him later on.

Brook has been fighting B listers up til now. I think its debateable if he is in his prime or not. I would say no, he isnt because he lacks the kind of top level fights that bring quality experience with it. Its time for him to step up now and put himself into the word level mix. I expect him to certainly be a player in the divison but beyond that Im not going to make any bold predictions. One fight at a time.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:No but its just when you call Khan/Brook a pick em but say Brook beats Pacquaio easily its hard to understand. If Brook is indeed good enough to beat Pacquiao easily at this stage of their careers then Khan hasnt a hope of beating him at 147.

Its the styles they both have. Khan excels against boxers whereas Pac doesn't. And Brook is a boxer. He beats him at this stage of Pac's career. A subtle difference.

Because Pacquiao has been facing great boxers while Khan has been beating boxers like Judah, Kotelnik and Malignaggi who arent as good as the likes of Cotto, JMM or Bradley.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:No but its just when you call Khan/Brook a pick em but say Brook beats Pacquaio easily its hard to understand. If Brook is indeed good enough to beat Pacquiao easily at this stage of their careers then Khan hasnt a hope of beating him at 147.

Its the styles they both have. Khan excels against boxers whereas Pac doesn't. And Brook is a boxer. He beats him at this stage of Pac's career. A subtle difference.

Because Pacquiao has been facing great boxers while Khan has been beating boxers like Judah, Kotelnik and Malignaggi who arent as good as the likes of Cotto, JMM or Bradley.

Pac has been fighting great names at weights above LWW.

88Chris05 wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:But Chris who actually hits harder a heavy handed 140lber or a fairly big punching 147lber, I wouldn't be convinced that the likes of Rios or Garcia hit any harder than say Brook, Berto or Ortiz if at all.

It's hard to measure for sure, Ghosty, but the bottom line for me is that there are fighters who can finish a title fight with a single hand at 140, whereas they're few and far, far between at 147. And if Khan's weight is now a problem at the lower weight, then there's a chance he'll hold a shot better at Welter in any case.

I see your point to an extent Chris but put the light welterweight in with the top Welterweights and i'd expect them to be knocked out quite regularly, there is a fairly big size difference between the two divisions. Brook, Ortiz and Berto would dwarve the big men at 140lbs.

manos de piedra wrote:Well if Carson Jones can go life and death with Brook then Pacquiao would have dominated that version of him and probably stopped him later on.

Brook has been fighting B listers up til now. I think its debateable if he is in his prime or not. I would say no, he isnt because he lacks the kind of top level fights that bring quality experience with it. Its time for him to step up now and put himself into the word level mix. I expect him to certainly be a player in the divison but beyond that Im not going to make any bold predictions. One fight at a time.

Again different styles. Jones was in his face from 5. Pac is more of an in and out fighter who has slowed a lot. He is made for a guy with an accurate jab and punches.

Carson jones is a totally different fighter than pacquiao, jones is someone who will be on you every minute if every round whereas pacquiao fights in bursts at a much slower pace, a pace that brook would find a lot easier

Brook might not be in his prime but while he's coming into his, pacquiao has definately passed his best. Everyone keeps expecting the old pacquiao to come back, lets be honest here, the old pacquiao isn't there anymore. He gets leg cramps every fight, misses more and more training, doesn't listen to roach and imo he doesn't look like he has the hunger anymore.

He has had 60 odd fights and is 33/34, his style is all about speed and quick feet, make him flat footed and he doesn't look the same. He has been hit by men a lot bigger than him and its taking a toll on him

Brook hasn't proved himself and may not be as good as Bradley or Marquez but he is a natural welterweight and has enough speed and power to hurt pacquiao.

Yes pacquiao would be favourite, I didn't say its a guarantee that brook will win, all I said is that brook has a great chance

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Carson jones is a totally different fighter than pacquiao, jones is someone who will be on you every minute if every round whereas pacquiao fights in bursts at a much slower pace, a pace that brook would find a lot easier

Brook might not be in his prime but while he's coming into his, pacquiao has definately passed his best. Everyone keeps expecting the old pacquiao to come back, lets be honest here, the old pacquiao isn't there anymore. He gets leg cramps every fight, misses more and more training, doesn't listen to roach and imo he doesn't look like he has the hunger anymore.

He has had 60 odd fights and is 33/34, his style is all about speed and quick feet, make him flat footed and he doesn't look the same. He has been hit by men a lot bigger than him and its taking a toll on him

Brook hasn't proved himself and may not be as good as Bradley or Marquez but he is a natural welterweight and has enough speed and power to hurt pacquiao.

Yes pacquiao would be favourite, I didn't say its a guarantee that brook will win, all I said is that brook has a great chance

Well said.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Well if Carson Jones can go life and death with Brook then Pacquiao would have dominated that version of him and probably stopped him later on.

Brook has been fighting B listers up til now. I think its debateable if he is in his prime or not. I would say no, he isnt because he lacks the kind of top level fights that bring quality experience with it. Its time for him to step up now and put himself into the word level mix. I expect him to certainly be a player in the divison but beyond that Im not going to make any bold predictions. One fight at a time.

Again different styles. Jones was in his face from 5. Pac is more of an in and out fighter who has slowed a lot. He is made for a guy with an accurate jab and punches.

Styles are one thing but its also about levels. Brook has never beaten a top fighter yet and has struggled badly with one who wasnt really. If that had of been Pacquaio in there with that version of Brook then Im not sure how you could think Brook wins that fight. Pacquiao is a heck alot of better than you are giving him credit for.. He might be fading but his last fight was still a pretty poor decision over one of the top fighters in the sport at the moment.

There is just no way that if transpires that Brook is currently good enough to beat Pacquiao easily then a fight with Khan is a pick em. It just doesnt add up even using a styles make fights argument. If Brook beats Pacquiao easily then hes simply too good for Khan by a stretch.

So what? Ali struggled with Cooper and Jones. He never competed in the same class as Liston. Look what happened.

Why is it that if Brook beats Pac, then by virtue he beats Khan?

Because Pacquiao is better than Khan.

I'd agree with Chris on this one, Kell Brook looks like the best welterweight out there at the moment besides Manny and Floyd (if Floyd is still an active WW boxer)

I think Bradley was beaten by Pacquiao. Not as clearly as perhaps some believe, but Pacquiao was the better man on the night, its Karma that he didn't get the decision, because after robbing Marquez at least once, maybe twice - he deserved to know what that feels like.

I can't make a case for Bradley beating Kell Brook, no matter how I look at it. Brook can be something brilliant, and although he was forced the distance with Jones, I feel perhaps he underestimated him, and I don't think he would against someone like Bradley. He's faster, hits harder and he's a better boxer. Brook all day.

That brings me to the Pacquiao conundrum. 3/4 years ago he wouldn't have had a hope in hell. Cotto is better than brook right now and Pacquaio destroyed him. Margarito was a very heavy handed puncher and Pacquiao walked through him. Mosely was a very cunning boxer, Pacquiao beat him easily. BUT Pacquiao is a shell of the destructive force of 2008/2009 - Brook would beat him now. Theres nothing Pacquiao has besides left hand power that would make Brook lose, the fact he throws a lot - Brook is too fast and too slick to get caught by the Pacquiao we know in 2012.

Theres only one Welterweight that gives Brook problems, and its Floyd because he does everything that little bit better than Brook.

Brook vs Pacquiao 2009 - Pacquiao
Brook vs Bradley - Brook
Brook vs Pacquiao 2012 - Brook
Brook vs Mayweather - Mayweather
Brook vs Alexander - Brook

Maybe they should look at Hatton/Khan as a warmup for Pacquiao after he beats Alexander.

Although I predict Pacquiao retires after finally beating Marquez fair and square.

i had bradley winning pac man, and think a rematch would be a more decisive win for bradley (hence them not going for a rematch), he's number 1 for me at the moment (except perhaps floyd), and the only man who beats brook. bradley can fight like jones did but better, but think after 2-3 top fights brook will improve and get even better, and beats anyone, but right now bradley beats everybody. khan has a chance of climbing up there again, and think he out boxes brook, but cant handle his power.

hatton, we'll just have to wait and see.

I cant really share the valuation or confidence in Brook until he steps it up a level. His opposition just hasnt been world class yet. Alexander will be a good test but its a fight I see cpable of going either way. Thats even before tackling guys like Pacquaio, Marquez and Bradley.

Regarding Pacquiao, I think he has slid somewhat but he still operates on an elite level where Brook has yet to test himslf at that level. Realistically, If Pacquiao had struggled with someone of Carson Jones level people would be calling for him to retire. His performances against JMM and Bradley would indicate that he is maybe on the downward spiral, although these are two of the top fighters in the world. I still think regarding a ossible match up Brooks lack of opposition and fight against Carson Jones would clearly be far more cause for concern than Pacquiaos performances against the much better Bradley and JMM.

Both Bradley and Marquez are tiny welterweights and neither could hurt pacquiao but could be hurt by him. Brook is a natural welterweight and is a boxer with a stiff jab, something pacquiao isn't great at dealing with. Pacquiao tried to walk through Bradley and did so at times as Bradley couldn't punch, and pacquiao wanted to trade to with Marquez as he knew Marquez couldn't hurt him. Pacquiao will have to be a lot more cautious fighting someone as big as kell and who isn't shot like Mosley, DLH, Margarito (maybe not shot but past his prime) etc

I see it from more from the perspective of all the problems that Pacquiao would provide Brook who has never really fought anyone world class or that has Pacquiaos kind of speed and power. Brook just isnt proven enough for me as of yet.

Jesus wept. Brook to beat Pacquiao? Reality check needed, gents. Pacquiao is past his best without doubt, but the old dog still has enough, and some to spare, in beating the likes of Brook.

did i just read carson jones fights at a faster pace than pacman?? theres no way brook at this stage beat manny even if manny has declined slighty (he still outboxed bradley all night) pacquioa is a agressive come forward fighter with a great chin, carson jones is a agressive come forward fighter with a great chin. the only difference? manny is about x10 the level above carson jones!!

Alright ease off on the "ridiculous" and language like that guys - its not that big of a deal to say that the #1 Ranked contender for the IBF title and the former #1 WBO ranked contender would have a shout at taking down Manny Pacquiao is it?

The way I see it, the Pacquiao of today has lost his power and speed that he had in 2009. He's also lost his focus. Compare his performance against Cotto to his performance against Bradley. Not the same boxer. Too much going on in his mind to focus 100% on his camp.

This doesn't make me insane.

Not sure, Alexander although not exciting at his best is capable of beating anyone out there, but on another night looks thoroughly beatable. So depends what Alexander turns up.