Rabo PRO12 (Round 7): Leinster 59 v 22 Cardiff Blues @ 18:30 Saturday 27 October (RDS, Dublin)

First topic message reminder :

Leinster squad update
There are no major injury concerns arising from Saturday’s games in Wales, where the senior team recorded their second Pool victory in the Heineken Cup over the Scarlets, while the province’s ‘A’ team were narrowly edged by Pontypridd in Sardis Road.
Gordon D’Arcy successfully came through 80 minutes after his recent rib injury, while Richardt Strauss received stitches to a cut on his chin.

It is hoped that Rob Kearney (back) will be available this weekend while Quinn Roux (ankle) will also continue to be assessed by the medical team.

Rhys Ruddock successfully came through his first run out of the season in Pontypridd and he is set to be joined in the mix for selection this week by Dave Kearney for the visit of Cardiff.

Second row Tom Denton was a late withdrawal from the ‘A’ game with minor calf tightening but that will not affect his availability this week when the team is named at Friday lunchtime.

Ticket sales for Saturday’s game have passed the 15,000 mark

The match is due to be televised on RTE.
Things are getting positive on the injury front, some good depth getting back fit.

I only saw the second half. And I have given the blues some stick this year but I thought they played OK second half, roberts buthbert tovey and the replacement winger all looked lively, although you could argue that was due to leinster taking their foot off the gas.

However there are a few positives to take from that defeat against a very very strong lensiter side

BOD has a sprained ankle according to Joe Schmidt
Not to serious they think

O'Driscolls injury doesnt sound too bad

The O's are your nemesis Gibbo...you won't beat us...anywhere!

No interviews with coaches...just Lloyd Williams of all people...

DOD wrote:Never mind the Heineken cup argument, is it worth having welsh teams in the pro 12

Decco, just sprayed wine all over me LCD, ya bollix.

Oh hang on...here's Phil. What wise words does he have....ummmm....eh.....nothing!

Phil "I dunno"... "It wasn't good enough."

Give up Phil.

He says it's only been nine games....and it's not about him, but the region. Talk about passing the buck!

Shaggy is going to be a great commentator. Smart lad for a big lump.

Quinny watch out. SKY own you. Shaggy is not for sale.

Gibbo - Shaggy would be better on the radio though.

Morgannwg wrote:Phil "I dunno"... "It wasn't good enough."

Give up Phil.

Even the under 20's were useless under his leadership!

Gibson wrote:

DOD wrote:Never mind the Heineken cup argument, is it worth having welsh teams in the pro 12

Decco, just sprayed wine all over me LCD, ya bollix.

Not trying to be funny but seriously a Cardiff team shipping that much...having been brought up by me da in the 70s disliking welsh teams coz they were so good its unbelievable

Cari wrote:He says it's only been nine games....and it's not about him, but the region. Talk about passing the buck!

+1

Give the man a chance. He inherited a malaise. Give him time. This Blues side should be seriously competing for the HC, never mind the PRO12, FFS.

Time to be in a rugby state of mind. Not a soccer one. Cardiff Blues will come again. Confidence is low. Love to see them win their next game well. And have a real go in the rest of the HC. Just the tonic.

Credwch.

Didn't see the match but would just like to add that Tobin Copeland is a Leinstet man, played for Mary's for a good few years.

The problem with us welsh, and welsh rugby, is that we seem averse to small changes or tweaks to make improvements. We like wholesale changes as it gives the blazers a sense that they've earned their money. Or something. Cue calls for dismantling of regions, 'fusing' existing regions together to create new entities (see recent threads), a return to 12 team talentless 1 star (in terms of number of big players and the rating of this if rugby) leagues, etc., etc.

Something needs to happen though. But the call will be for monumental change, as it always is in Wales. 'Rip it up and start again' should be our motto.

Gibson wrote:Shaggy is going to be a great commentator. Smart lad for a big lump.

Quinny watch out. SKY own you. Shaggy is not for sale.

Be nice for the lad to turn out good at something

Mickado wrote:Didn't see the match but would just like to add that Tobin Copeland is a Leinstet man, played for Mary's for a good few years.

We're baaack!

Wow great result for Leinster. Happy days I was losing interest in the season there without a credible domestic rival

Hey anyone know where I can see hilights of this? Will the replay be on RTE player?

Yeah Rodders it will be up in the next day or so, I'm still waiting for the Munster game to come up on TG4 player.

Any idea where I could find any highlights of the Ulster game Rodders?

Hmm its one BBC Iplayer but you can't get that right?

Try here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheUAFC

Rodders you're deadly!

Beware the first half should come with a hazard warning...unless you like handling errors and penalties that is....

Enjoy

Now that's what I call Music!

Defence is actually still a major hole in the system though and will be exposed by a side that starts to play earlier than the Blues tried to. But at least that game will put self-belief back in the veins of a side that were looking like losing the midas touch - and that renewed confidence might tighten up those damn holes.

Anyway, about the Blues. We here (Irish sides) get accused of prioritising Province and HC over and above International. Players who look like they'd give their life to crawl into the HC playoffs often look lethargic and disinterested when playing International.
I think there is more than enough evidence to say the reverse is quite apparent amongst certain Welsh players. That game almost looked like a training game for some of those players preparing to meet two of the BIG SH sides (one they've been frustrated by numerous times now and of course, the biggest of all)
They just don't sink themselves into Region nearly as much as they do at International.

Hardly surprising M. Fly. The Regions were invented; the Provinces were always there, in rugby terms.

The Welsh and Irish define themselves as where they're from (e.g. "He's a Cork man"), or (He's a Ponty man"). It is a proud thing, and served Welsh rugby well for many a year, but is also the cause of much parochial banter and bickering in both countries. But the Welsh put it all to one side when it comes to wearing the national shirt.

The Regions don't have the same sense of definition yet imo. The 'Cardiff' Blues arguably being the hardest one to identify with for many as the Region covers a large part of the population, and many clubs.

2-3 years ago the Blues looked like becoming a real force in Europe. It's a shame to see them fall so far in a short space of time.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah Rodders it will be up in the next day or so, I'm still waiting for the Munster game to come up on TG4 player.

Any idea where I could find any highlights of the Ulster game Rodders?

In all honesty the only highlight is Jerry Flannery complaining about getting his ass frozen for nothing...and he was right

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Hardly surprising M. Fly. The Regions were invented; the Provinces were always there, in rugby terms.

The Welsh and Irish define themselves as where they're from (e.g. "He's a Cork man"), or (He's a Ponty man"). It is a proud thing, and served Welsh rugby well for many a year, but is also the cause of much parochial banter and bickering in both countries. But the Welsh put it all to one side when it comes to wearing the national shirt.

The Regions don't have the same sense of definition yet imo. The 'Cardiff' Blues arguably being the hardest one to identify with for many as the Region covers a large part of the population, and many clubs.

2-3 years ago the Blues looked like becoming a real force in Europe. It's a shame to see them fall so far in a short space of time.

I know the overall complexity..the big picture, Hound. But that wasn't really what I was getting at. I was getting at the more particular idea as it related to a given game, a real game - and Welsh sides, or Welsh players, not performing in these games IS regarded as both often surprising and annoying to the Welsh regional followers who can apprecitate the big picture region v nation arguments when talking in generalities but find it so hard to comprehend the big picture in practical games.

A good few Blues watchers expected their players to perform much better - bluesman was giving his winning margin before the game itself and yet all these followers know in their heart that the Welsh players that matter can often suggest that they are not taking their regional careers as seriously as their International ones.
I'm not actually against their priority of International above region - I merely point out that the theory is also real - and happens in real time - during games.

I don't think its a great revelation that Welsh players, generally speaking , don't play with the same commitment and passion for their regions as they do for their country. The regions don't have the history or cultural identity that the Irish provinces do, or even the Welsh clubs have, whereas the Welsh are incredibly passionate about their country and rugby is the national sport.

Its an interesting contrast with Ireland because some would argue we have the reverse problem. Ireland is a diverse and parochial place and the national team is made up of two states, with very different identities and even within these states there are deep social, religious and cultural divisions.

Provincial bonds are incredibly strong, the passion for our provinces burns in our veins, and bringing these together into a shared identity and building a cohesive team with a shared identity and effective game plan is a significant challenge when our players are spread geographically and the teams play different styles of rugby.

The Welsh don't have these issues with the regions being geographically close together and a similar philosophy of rugby embedded throughout the Welsh psyche.

rodders wrote:I don't think its a great revelation that Welsh players, generally speaking , don't play with the same commitment and passion for their regions as they do for their country. The regions don't have the history or cultural identity that the Irish provinces do, or even the Welsh clubs have, whereas the Welsh are incredibly passionate about their country and rugby is the national sport.

Its an interesting contrast with Ireland because some would argue we have the reverse problem. Ireland is a diverse and parochial place and the national team is made up of two states, with very different identities and even within these states there are deep social, religious and cultural divisions.

Provincial bonds are incredibly strong, the passion for our provinces burns in our veins, and bringing these together into a shared identity and building a cohesive team with a shared identity and effective game plan is a significant challenge when our players are spread geographically and the teams play different styles of rugby.

The Welsh don't have these issues with the regions being geographically close together and a similar philosophy of rugby embedded throughout the Welsh psyche.

Personally Rodders I think this is a load of absolute twaddle that supporters trot out to try and explain the inexplicable. In reality what we have in Wales is provinces with poor coaches and good players. They have a surplus of money at the WRU but want to spend it on central contracts. Why not go out and hire yourself some good coaches? At national level you have a very good coaching staff. A tactically astute head coach who did very well at Ireland early in his management career and excellently at Wasps, and who can argue with his Welsh record in the past couple of seasons? Good players, good coaching, tactical awareness = wins.

At Irish provincial level we have three excellent coaches in charge of the three main provinces. The provinces went out and spent money and got good candidates. Good coaches, good coaching, good players = wins. National setup? No backs coach last season, a defence coach also coaching attack. Square pegs into round holes on the pitch. Poor tactical awareness. Good players, bad coaching = sad fans and angry Rodders.

Ah yes...is it possible for me to agree with you without disagreeing with myself?.....probably not but I will anyways.....

I didn't really want to twist this post-game comments thread into yet another discussion on the theories of region/province v country. I just think it was a little pointed that some Blues players had more than half a mind on the red shirt coming up and some very important games for them. Energy is finite I always say and players DO manage it and prioritise when they use it

Ah forget it!

Look fly lets not beat around the bush here. What we're saying is no matter how well D'arcy, McFadden and Paddy Wallace play against the likes of Jamie Roberts, Jonathon Davies and George North at provincial level the fiecers are going to trample all over them come the 6N.

Just admit it, that's what you are thinking too.

Yep

BUT........... if we could only hypnotise the Irish guys to believe they're playing for their Province (Court!!!! is a prime example - cold and emotionless in Irish shirt - passionate fecking madman in his white!) then our Provincial passion would knock the stuffing even out of Welsh player's Red passion

We gotta harness that crazy psycho killer Provincial nuttiness and spray paint the pill Green.

Cardiff you have some very serious defensive issues.

rodders wrote:Look fly lets not beat around the bush here. What we're saying is no matter how well D'arcy, McFadden and Paddy Wallace play against the likes of Jamie Roberts, Jonathon Davies and George North at provincial level the fiecers are going to trample all over them come the 6N.

Just admit it, that's what you are thinking too.

Agree with that.

There are some mixed messages being sent out by the BOD injury. The Leinster offy is reporting

"Brian sprained his ankle. He was going to play on. In the end, we measured up the responsibilities that he has got coming up (with Ireland) and we replaced him. We don't think at this stage that it is too serious."

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchcentre/10543.php

Auntie is saying

"Brian sprained his ankle. He was going to play on. In the end, we measured up the responsibilities that he has got coming up (with Ireland) and we replaced him. We don't think at this stage that it is too serious."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20092639

ESPN restricts itself to

O'Driscoll damaged his left ankle during the move and received treatment while Sexton converted. Brendan Macken was sent on to replace the Ireland captain.

http://www.espnscrum.com/rabodirect-pro12-2012-13/rugby/story/171761.html

What's the reality? And who makes the decision as to when he is declared fit - Province or Country?

To be honest with the way he was moving after it looked like a standard sprain. That generally is a week out I think and bod has freakish recovering powers!

He looked really good in his 18mins r so. Some great attacking play evasion and offloading

But who makes the call? Leinster, Ireland or the Divinity himself?

SecretFly wrote:BUT........... if we could only hypnotise the Irish guys to believe they're playing for their Province (Court!!!! is a prime example - cold and emotionless in Irish shirt - passionate fecking madman in his white!) then our Provincial passion would knock the stuffing even out of Welsh player's Red passion

We gotta harness that crazy psycho killer Provincial nuttiness and spray paint the pill Green.

Good idea!...and yes agree with Gibbo above too.

However I do have a slightly different slant on it. I think the passion is there for Ireland (remember O'Connell's fear of God speech? ), things have just gone stale since the GS win, which was such a huge monkey off the back for the players. We should have kicked on, but instead stagnated, whilst other sides have been building.

Enthusiasm, not to be confused with passion or commitment, is down on what it was as is confidence. Our provinces are pseudo International sides anyways so seeing comparable levels of manic aggression and passion at that level is understandable and something to be proud of rather than concerned about. The standard of coaching is clearly better at that level, and when you throw the quality of the NIEs in its not surprising that we are performing relatively better at that level.

The challenge for the IRFU is to get the National side up to scratch because the provincial coaches are leading the way.

greytiger wrote:But who makes the call? Leinster, Ireland or the Divinity himself?

They're all one and the same aren't they?

rodders wrote:

greytiger wrote:But who makes the call? Leinster, Ireland or the Divinity himself?

They're all one and the same aren't they?

Now I understand why the country's premier university is called Trinity.

I would have thought that this would have been the easiest of easy calls to make.

A player, any player, with a significant injury is not going to help either himself or his team by continuing to play on.

Given that this occured when Leinster were already 21 v 3 up and scoring at the rate of about a point a minute I doubt there was too much soul searching going on. I am pretty sure the Leinster medical team were not making frantic phone calls to Deccie to ask his opinion.

I suspect they could have taken him off and not sent anyone on to replace him and still won at a canter!

I imagine it will be bod, he will be given that responsibility. I also imagine his Sunday morning alarm clock went off about 30mims ago to get him to ice rooms and physios tables. Swelling won't have gone down yet I doubt tho

No offence boys but to compare Ireland to Wales based on the balls up that was the regional setup in Wales is like comparing apples and Oranges.

Wales is the better team, has the better balance and has the better players IMHO.

The Irish provinces have history, fans, passion, and an infrastructure that has been there for a hundred years, the welsh set up is a mess, was a mess and has failed club rugby in Wales.

I'm not sure why passion is eluded to so much in international rugby, from my experience international players need to be colder and much more thoughtfull, passion breeds mistaked and you cannot afford mistakes at the top table.

Look at the welsh game, kick chase support exploit chances, very cold and calculating with a lot of restraint from the players part.

IMHO Leinster have a great coach, and so does Wales. They make a lot of difference!!!

Why does it seem to be getting worse though Bluesman?

I can fully understand how the regions do not have the same history as the provinces and so folks don't always feel the same sense of identity towards them but surely one would expect that to improve, no?

Last season it seemed that Blues fans were clamouring for a return to CAP. That has happened but still the team play as if they really don't want to be there.

I know Ulster a few seasons back went through a similar phase when it looked like the players were very demotivated. A change of coach improved things emormously.

Independent are saying he will be fit. Great wee interview w mcsharry too

I agree Bluesman.

Is it getting worse though? Ospreys are reigning Rabo champs and Scarlets are clear in second. There seems to be financial problems but I think the woes of the regions have been exaggerated.

Or maybe I'm missing something?

Because regionalism hasn't taken off and failed. The return to the CAP sent the locals wild but losing 4/5 home games by more than 30 points meant they were flawed!!!!

There are very few local boys in the team, Thomas, Rees, Yapp, Jenkins, Nugget, Delve, Gill, Robinson x2, have all gone or turned away at some point. Then poor old NWQ players shipped in, Young was sent packing and wasn't replaced, then a knee jerk reaction in Davies appointed.

But in reality all of this is circumstancial nonsense, the 'region' of the Blues has never existed, it was drawn up after the Warriors were left to rot, and none of the warriors fanbase was interested. So the Blues have a small core Cardiff based support but even these are starting to waver, like all regional fans in south wales.

The prem has been sacrificed and left to rot, a once proud league boasting HC giant kills and runs way above their ability levels has been sacrificed and used as a warming station for academy prospects.

Just imagine the RDS on a cold wet friday night with 2100 people in it, on BODs testemonial game and a farewell to other local servants, more away noise than home, no atmosphere mumbles and grumbles and the Leinster internationals not wanting to get hurt for a club they don't care about.

Floored not flawed