EPS Injury Watch

First topic message reminder :

Lawes and Botha both replaced in the first half of Saints v Sarries.

Hartley taken off on 41 minutes.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Triangulation wrote:...Here we are nearly at Tuesday...

It's certainly nearly Tuesday, but is actually still Monday afternoon, the day Lawes, Hartley et al go in for scans.

England have called up cover for the players they are concerned about so it's not as if there's been an information vaccuum.

Oh and yes that is exactly what were in when Brian Smith seems to know more about it all than we do. He indicated that Paice would be with England for the entire series.

I am furious.

Ah chill ya little cotton socks Tri...everything will work out fine.

Triangulation wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Official_RFU Twitter- Worcester Warriors loosehead Matt Mullan will arrive at England camp tonight as injury cover for Joe Marler (tight hamstring) #rugby

Might be losing Marler too

Fecking hell.

How is it that we have a great run with injuries UNTIL now and then everyone goes down in one weekend.

Call the AIs off. Im sick to death of this.

Why the feck doesnt the RFU intervene 2 weeks out and cotton wool vital players?

If they dont have the power to do this then they damned well should.


They're trying to flog Twickenham tickets for upwards of 60 quid and these games decide RWC seedings.

Oh and they're Test matches not B team friendlies.

Ahh feck this.

Wake me up when its all over were going to lose 3 from 4.

If that's the case why not schedule matches so sides will be more inclined to rest players?

E.g. sides will be more likely to rest players vs Worcester or LW at home.

Saints,Leicester,Sarries and Quins were also going to put out their strongest sides because of the opposition.

I think fixtures are chosen before the season by all the clubs so why not go one step further?

Mullan has now been called into squad as cover for Marler who has a tight hamstring.
That's potentially 2 of our 3 front row gone. An area which was probably our strongest.

Shame we've had this run of injuries all of a sudden. Hartley, Lawes, JJ and now Marler it seems. Further, Tom Palmer didn't play for Wasps because of a hamstring injury and Haskell was out with a virus.

Looking at Robshaw i'm sure he'll be fine but losing Marler, Palmer, Hartley, Lawes and Joseph is a real blow if that's to be the case.

Worse still the only players I rate in the call up so far have been Tom Youngs (bar his throwing), Matt Mullan and Vunipola (bar some of his scrummaging).

Robson is a worse version of Geoff Parling and certainly no substitute for the sort of physical presence Lawes brings. Haskell hasn't impressed me at all so far this season and looks like he needs a rest to me. Monye has been playing well but is limited for a winger and others could've come in I feel.

All we need now is for Toby Flood to go down and that'll be our game over with.

Chjw131 wrote:Shame we've had this run of injuries all of a sudden. Hartley, Lawes, JJ and now Marler it seems. Further, Tom Palmer didn't play for Wasps because of a hamstring injury and Haskell was out with a virus.

Looking at Robshaw i'm sure he'll be fine but losing Marler, Palmer, Hartley, Lawes and Joseph is a real blow if that's to be the case.

Worse still the only players I rate in the call up so far have been Tom Youngs (bar his throwing), Matt Mullan and Vunipola (bar some of his scrummaging).

Robson is a worse version of Geoff Parling and certainly no substitute for the sort of physical presence Lawes brings. Haskell hasn't impressed me at all so far this season and looks like he needs a rest to me. Monye has been playing well but is limited for a winger and others could've come in I feel.

All we need now is for Toby Flood to go down and that'll be our game over with.

We should now go for damage limitation and start Farell at 10.

Cheers.

A tight hamstring shouldn't keep him out for too long though? There is still about two week until the Fiji game and another week after that until we hit the really difficult fixtures start.

Again, without trying to be disrespectful, we should be able to beat Fiji at Twickenham even if we have to do it with a mixture of first and second choice players.

Of course a tight hamstring woukd hopefully be better by tge time we play teams we will need a big scrum against

Cumbrian, great minds think alike

No feck that.
Were doomed.

Even at full strength EPS we would have struggled.

Now we will be humiliated. At home. In front of our own support.

Who have paid 80 quid a throw for the privilege.

Thanks a lot for allowing EPS players to be injured in this fashion.

Gross dereliction of duty.

But ah well who gives a sh*t eh?

Just keep trudging on lookin at our muddy bootlaces in the crud comp that is the AP.

That's what's important. Right?

Triangulation, I'm getting the sense you're a glass half-full kind of guy....am I correct?

Yes BlueVader, you are correct. I am an optimistic realist.

bluestonevedder wrote:Triangulation, I'm getting the sense you're a glass half-full kind of guy....am I correct?

I agree a tight hamstring shouldn't be the end of the world, but if it rules Marler and Palmer out we're looking at starting Vunipola (who only played his first Jeff game this season) and Mullan on the bench. He might do well but it's some hell of a baptism of fire. Worse still we're looking at Botha in at 4. I'm hoping Deacon gets a recall.

If they are still out for the big 3- bad. If only for Fiji, the game is harder but we will cope

Remember that this week is still outside the standard international window, so the only way they can get access to players outside the main squad is injuries. Marler might be pretty much fine, but they're using any small niggle to call up extra players who they want to look at.

If the players we mothballed 3 weeks out then they would still get injured in their last game and they would all be really rusty come Int day.

The attrition rate of modern rugby is such that you have to expect around a 30% attrition rate with injuries.

So we have a 32 man EPS.

3 of the original selection were injured and replaced last week.
Hartley and Lawes look like missing some (or all) of the AIs.
JJ is an unknown.
Marler, Youngs & Robshaw have minor issues that should be cleared up by Fiji.

All in all about what you would expect.

thomh wrote:Remember that this week is still outside the standard international window, so the only way they can get access to players outside the main squad is injuries. Marler might be pretty much fine, but they're using any small niggle to call up extra players who they want to look at.

Can an outside half and a centre get a scrotal itch or summat?

And by FH and Centre, we mean JTH and Farrell

Lawes & Hartley are due to have scans on their knees this evening (Monday) we will know more tomorrow when SL has his briefing to the media at 5pm.

Injuries are an irritant for England at the moment because we are still trying to work out our best combinations.

It's still a better situation than Martin Johnson experienced at the start of the 2009 Autum Internationals. He lost 11 of his original 32 man squad including seven likely starters.

Hartley was injured back then too, having to settle for a place on the bench while Steve Thompson returned at hooker. Prop injuries were also a problem and he ended up packing down between Wilson and Payne.

Delon Armitage and Riki Flutey were both missing, a bad blow because they did well in the previous Six Nations. Armitage's injury meant Johnson played Monye at full back which wasn't ideal.

Funnily enough, I was just looking at an old article from the lead-up to those 2009 games and spotted this comment at the end of a Guardian piece:

"Gloucester's Andy Hazell was last night suspended by a Rugby Football Union disciplinary panel for one week, after being found guilty of stamping on Bath's Julian Salvi during last week's match at Kingsholm."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/sep/15/delon-armitage-injury-england-autumn-internationals

It must be some kind of annual mood swing for Hazell.

I wouldn't get too worked up about it Tri.

If we were Irish we'd be worrying if BOD had laddered her stockings or needed a new tampax.

Let's get down to brass tacks.

Ok so who to start at looshead?

Mullan or Vunipola ?

Hooker - Paice or Youngs?

At 6 is it Johnson or Haskell?

Reserve second row - Botha or Robson?

Can we beat a wet paper bag with available personnel?

No we cannot.

Seriously you should shut down 606 until January.

Vunipola
Youngs
Johnson
I would start Robson and Palmer with that we've got.

vunipola, youngs, cole

does surprise me we are putting out such inexperienced players (exception cole) in such technical positions.

i would play johnson too, unless of course wood impresses in training.

the 2nd row is anyones guess at this stage, im still holding out hope lawes will be fit. i think parling will start particularly if tom youngs is selected

HQ Matt when you have your top 2 looseheads injured it's going to mean inexperience isn't it?

Johnson has done little wrong if even though he's not as well known as the other guys.

If Parling and Youngs both start I really do fear for the lineout.

Hopefully they are practicing all this week on that area 24 hours a day!

IF (we have to wait until 5 fecking p m)

Lawes is fit i want a big angry ball carrying pack

Cole
Youngs (hang the lineout wobbles - if Paice was good enough he would not be 8th choice)
Marler/Vunipola
Palmer
Botha
Lawes
Robshaw
Morgan

Triangulation you would have 3 2nd rows? With that backrow the tri nations would have a field day.

Parling youngs club combo ofc.

Might make a lot of difference

Tri

Lawes is fit i want a big angry ball carrying pack

So you list Botha and Palmer as your second rows?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tri

Lawes is fit i want a big angry ball carrying pack

So you list Botha and Palmer as your second rows?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tri

Lawes is fit i want a big angry ball carrying pack

So you list Botha and Palmer as your second rows?

GF and Beshocked

That's right i've put Lawes at 6. He can play there. Sue me.

Garvey, Attwood etc would possibly be better but guess what? They are not in the mix so i can dream them up into the team but they arent even available.

Triangulation wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tri

Lawes is fit i want a big angry ball carrying pack

So you list Botha and Palmer as your second rows?

GF and Beshocked

That's right i've put Lawes at 6. He can play there. Sue me.

Garvey, Attwood etc would possibly be better but guess what? They are not in the mix so i can dream them up into the team but they arent even available.

Would you play Monye at full back, M.Tuilagi at 12 and Brown on the wing? Unfortunately ol' Bergamasco doesn't play for England so we can't put him at 9.

beshocked wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tri

Lawes is fit i want a big angry ball carrying pack

So you list Botha and Palmer as your second rows?

GF and Beshocked

That's right i've put Lawes at 6. He can play there. Sue me.

Garvey, Attwood etc would possibly be better but guess what? They are not in the mix so i can dream them up into the team but they arent even available.

Would you play Monye at full back, M.Tuilagi at 12 and Brown on the wing? Unfortunately ol' Bergamasco doesn't play for England so we can't put him at 9.

Come off it Beshocked.

I'm pretty sure Lawes has played at 6 at Heineken Cup level before and possibly even filled in or covered there for England.

He puts himself all over the park whether at 6 or second row.

Backrow is a relative strength. Shunting one of our top 2nd rows to 6 is just silly IMO.

Maybe it's because I am fan of playing players in their best positions.

Johnson and Haskells are better 6s than Lawes.

And Lawes is a far better second row than any of the others in the squad.

Besides if you want a ball carrying second row thats in the EPS...you'd be better putting Morgan and Waldrom in the SR over Palmer and Botha...

GeordieFalcon wrote:And Lawes is a far better second row than any of the others in the squad.

Besides if you want a ball carrying second row thats in the EPS...you'd be better putting Morgan and Waldrom in the SR over Palmer and Botha...

ha ha now you're just being ridiculous.

Nice one though.

Johnson is a good player but we cant afford him with lightweight second rows. Haskell i'd be happy with at 6.

Not sure if anyone's already seen this, but by the looks of the brace on his leg, Hartley could be set for a long lay-off.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/england-left-wondering-where-did-all-the-hookers-go-8231548.html

Also, those are certainly some glasses he is wearing!

I didn't realise the extent of Hartley's injury, that contraption on his leg doesn't look good at all! I expected him to be out of the Fiji game, but it looks like he could be out of the whole series, it is quite a blow...

Yeh Hartley's looks bad. Lawes doesn't look all that bad really, no visible strapping, and he's bending his knee at least. I'm hoping so much that he makes the series!

Well...the things that would come out of this if Hartley is out..is that Youngs physically is more than capable...and he gets blooded in high level games, and im sure his throwing will be just fine.

And then Paice is a feisty backup for the short term...

Might see the likes of Lindsay called up aswell...then we could say at least we have some others who have experience being around the senior squads for intense games like these.

Hartley and Lawes released back to their clubs with a few other players. They return for treatment and will be reassessed at Pennyhill park on Sunday.

http://www.rfu.com/news/2012/october/newsarticles/301012_lawes_hartley

Robshaw also to retain captaincy