Froch should dump the IBF

No need for him to waste time fighting Adonis Stevenson at this stage of his career. If he drops the IBF Bute would probably go for it against Stevenson in a huge fight for Canada, and Froch would be free to fight Kessler in a rematch in spring/summer. If Froch beats Kess in rematch there is the possibility of a trilogy and/or a rematch with Ward (which he would lose).

A win in Montreal for Froch would be great for Froch, but I don't see how it benefits him that much, given he has already battered him once.

I would explore the possibility of dumping the IBF with Butes team and see if they would let him out the rematch clause, given they could scrap Stevenson for it.

Eh? I thought he was fighting Mack.

After man, after. Don't mess with me today, it's only 8 o'clock here

Wouldnt really agree. The belt earns him more money so the financial incentive to keep is too great.

Froch is in a position where he legitimises the belt, not the other way around. The IBF will accommodate him.

I just think a rematch with KEssler is necessary for his legacy, and every fight in between makes it less likely due to injuries and potential for defeats. ALso, fighting Kess makes money with or wothout the IBF. At Froch's age he shouldn't be wasting any time getting the fights he wants. Mack - Kess - if warranted a third - then farewell fight.

Would agree that fighting Kessler is good for him in terms of his legacy and financially.

The belt gives him more bargaining power, more marketability, more prestige etc Kessler would want the fight alot more if there was a title at stake I think. Froch wants to make money here. He hasnt had the opportunity really in the past to take easy fights but now that he is finally in a position where he can call the shots a bit more then Im sure he wont be adverse to cashing in on it a bit. The belts make money, otherwise they would be defunct long ago. They do little else these days.

manos de piedra wrote:The belt gives him more bargaining power, more marketability, more prestige etc Kessler would want the fight alot more if there was a title at stake I think. Froch wants to make money here. He hasnt had the opportunity really in the past to take easy fights but now that he is finally in a position where he can call the shots a bit more then Im sure he wont be adverse to cashing in on it a bit. The belts make money, otherwise they would be defunct long ago. They do little else these days.

I'm not too sure. Froch is a name. SO is Kessler. Moreover someone like the IBO could step in and add the legitimacy of a title fight. Didn't they do that for Barrera?

Lets not kid ourselves though that Froch wants the Kessler fight at any cost. He wants it but he wants it on his terms. The IBF belt strengthens his position greatly. Hes not going to ditch his title, travel to Denmark and fight Kessler for the short end of the purse.

Froc is willing to go back to Denmark. I would not say that is on his terms

I doubt he will go back to Denmark unless he is getting a large part of the purse in return. I think both Kessler and Froch want the fight but both are going to want a deal that suits them both otherwise I dont think the fight will come off. Having a world title I think strengthens Froch postion significantly. If Kesslers demands are deemed to high or vice versa then it could easily stall or not happen.

http://www.boxingscene.com/carl-froch-vs-yusaf-mack-only-500-tickets-remain--58802

4th paragraph from bottom.

Kessler has a win over Froch, in my mind that is at least as good a bargaining tool as an alphabelt. Kessler team will throw mad moeny at Froch, too

I think the belt is worth alot more myself. Not neccessarily in terms of actually symbolising anything but purely as a financial instrument. Froch would be in a much weaker position without I think in terms of what kind of demands he could make and money he could expect.

manos de piedra wrote:I think the belt is worth alot more myself. Not neccessarily in terms of actually symbolising anything but purely as a financial instrument. Froch would be in a much weaker position without I think in terms of what kind of demands he could make and money he could expect.

I think it all comes down to who needs the fight more.

Bute needed Froch to legitimize him as a belt holder. That is why he came to Nottingham (which i called and was scoffed at btw) and that is why he was willing to take a pay cut to do so.

There was no reason at all for Bute to go to Notts otherwise.

Froch needs Kess for his legacy. Froch trades on his run of tough fight sand openly admits he wants legendary status in the sport. He knows that any comparisons to his peers (Calzaghe of course), will be far more favourable if he beats or even KO's Kess in a rematch. Ward is best of his generation so that loss doesn't really harm Froch, but the Kess one does and needs rectifying. So Froch needs the fight more than Kess needs an alphabelt that means very little. Kess also has a huge fanbase and is looking for retirment cheques.

Seanusarrilius wrote:No need for him to waste time fighting Adonis Stevenson at this stage of his career. If he drops the IBF Bute would probably go for it against Stevenson in a huge fight for Canada, and Froch would be free to fight Kessler in a rematch in spring/summer. If Froch beats Kess in rematch there is the possibility of a trilogy and/or a rematch with Ward (which he would lose).

A win in Montreal for Froch would be great for Froch, but I don't see how it benefits him that much, given he has already battered him once.

I would explore the possibility of dumping the IBF with Butes team and see if they would let him out the rematch clause, given they could scrap Stevenson for it.

Without a belt to bargain with, Kessler won't want or even need the fight.

Super D Boon wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:No need for him to waste time fighting Adonis Stevenson at this stage of his career. If he drops the IBF Bute would probably go for it against Stevenson in a huge fight for Canada, and Froch would be free to fight Kessler in a rematch in spring/summer. If Froch beats Kess in rematch there is the possibility of a trilogy and/or a rematch with Ward (which he would lose).

A win in Montreal for Froch would be great for Froch, but I don't see how it benefits him that much, given he has already battered him once.

I would explore the possibility of dumping the IBF with Butes team and see if they would let him out the rematch clause, given they could scrap Stevenson for it.

Without a belt to bargain with, Kessler won't want or even need the fight.

My only concern is that if Froch dumps the belt, Kess hangs on to fight Bute. They'll all want Bute, now he has been exposed. Didn't want him before Froch, mind, did they, ha

I think Kessler is finished (at world level). Him and Froch are supposed to be mates and I can see a Calzaghe / Jones boxing display which Froch comfortably wins.

Didn't Kessler's mum say she doesn't want him in the ring with Froch again?

seanmichaels wrote:I think Kessler is finished (at world level). Him and Froch are supposed to be mates and I can see a Calzaghe / Jones boxing display which Froch comfortably wins.

Didn't Kessler's mum say she doesn't want him in the ring with Froch again?

haha mummy.

I do wonder if Kess realises he is past his best. Magee is a soft touch for him, and Green knocked him down.

I just want it Sean. I want Froch v Kess two. Make it happen for me

Yeah but Bute didn't offer to fight Kessler in Denmark if memory serves me correctly.

Anyway, European fighters love their trinkets! If Froch asks Kessler for a fight in Nottingham for no belt I can't imagine Kessler will take too long in thinking about an answer.

Seanusarrilius wrote:Froc is willing to go back to Denmark. I would not say that is on his terms

In this instance its a flat out lie. He won't travel to Denmark after all the fuss he made after the last trip.

azania wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Froc is willing to go back to Denmark. I would not say that is on his terms

In this instance its a flat out lie. He won't travel to Denmark after all the fuss he made after the last trip.

Depends on how much he wants the fight, Az. And money. Not a flat out lie by Froch, IMO

Unfortunately for Froch he will never achieve legendary status due to Ward schooling him.

azania wrote:Unfortunately for Froch he will never achieve legendary status due to Ward schooling him.

I agree and even if he beats and beats comfortably Kessler in a rematch he still won't eclipse Calzaghe on the basis that he'll never be more than a paper champion - albeit probably the best paper champion in the world. Froch will never beat Ward.

I think Kessler looks pretty much shot now and apart from a wonder punch against Green he looked pretty crusty in that fight. I think Kessler should hang them up.

As for Froch he should travel north to Light Heavyeight. I don't see why he can't beat any of those champions.

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:Unfortunately for Froch he will never achieve legendary status due to Ward schooling him.

I agree and even if he beats and beats comfortably Kessler in a rematch he still won't eclipse Calzaghe on the basis that he'll never be more than a paper champion - albeit probably the best paper champion in the world. Froch will never beat Ward.

I think Kessler looks pretty much shot now and apart from a wonder punch against Green he looked pretty crusty in that fight. I think Kessler should hang them up.

As for Froch he should travel north to Light Heavyeight. I don't see why he can't beat any of those champions.

Calzaghe might not have beaten Ward either, just never had the chance to lose. He did have the chance to lose to a far better version of Jones than he fought, but he fought him too late.

I don't worry too much about the paper champion tag you so readily apply. Hearns was a paper cham as he was not best of his era, so was Frazie, Foreman and countless other HOF fighters. So what?

Its mainly because of the belt that Froch can make demands to Kessler. If he hadnt got it then as someone Kessler had beaten already, Froch would be in a pretty weak bargaining spot and would have to settle for much less. With the belt he can demand more money and that Kessler travel to the UK. If he dumps his title he weakens his position badly. I think both guys want the fight but perhaps not as much as they are making out. If the deal doesnt suit both camps then it may fizzle out. Hopefully they can come to an agreement but I cant sayId be surprised if they didnt. The only real reason Kessler would want this fight is because it may offer more money than most others, and a world title for him. Once it doesnt, then he may very well lose interest and I cant see Froch rushing back and giving up home advantage and caving into demands to make it happen.

Yeah but then Calzaghe might have beaten Ward too we'll never know.

To compare Froch to a division hopper in Hearns is a bit daft. Hearn's reputation is based on being a multi weight world champion but Froch has remained at SMW throughout his career. Frazier was the man at one point (held both the main titles WBC.WBA) as too was Foreman (I think)

I'm just saying that Froch will never be THE MAIN MAN at Super middleweight so I can't see how you can say his record would better than that of Joe Calzaghe's. Besides, you're saying JC fought RJJ too late and you're right but the same argument could be applied to Froch fighting Kessler too late.

Frazier and Foreman were not paper champs. They were both the undisputed heavyweight champion.

manos de piedra wrote:Frazier and Foreman were not paper champs. They were both the undisputed heavyweight champion.

Foreman was later beaten by Tommy Morrison and went on to win a world title, so was a paper champ

The point being that SuperBoon keeps throwing ths in like anyone who suffered a defeat is insignificant in boxing.

All the best fighters lose, so who cares.

There should be no titles, just fights. Stops all this nonsense

Seanusarrilius wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Frazier and Foreman were not paper champs. They were both the undisputed heavyweight champion.

Foreman was later beaten by Tommy Morrison and went on to win a world title, so was a paper champ

The point being that SuperBoon keeps throwing ths in like anyone who suffered a defeat is insignificant in boxing.

All the best fighters lose, so who cares.

There should be no titles, just fights. Stops all this nonsense

Foreman was the linear champion when he KO'd Moorer. Nothint paper about that.

Shut up Az

No such thing as a linear champion at heavyweight and hasn't been since Jeffries retired. The linear title was a marketing tool designed by big George's handlers.

rowley wrote:No such thing as a linear champion at heavyweight and hasn't been since Jeffries retired. The linear title was a marketing tool designed by big George's handlers.

like I said, shut up AZ!

rowley wrote:No such thing as a linear champion at heavyweight and hasn't been since Jeffries retired. The linear title was a marketing tool designed by big George's handlers.

He was the recognised world champion. Nothing paper about it. Hence Shannon Briggs was referred to as the linear champ.

I doubt there was even a proper one before Jeffries. It all began as an invention somewhere.

Reverse linear, that's where its at.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Frazier and Foreman were not paper champs. They were both the undisputed heavyweight champion.

Foreman was later beaten by Tommy Morrison and went on to win a world title, so was a paper champ

The point being that SuperBoon keeps throwing ths in like anyone who suffered a defeat is insignificant in boxing.

All the best fighters lose, so who cares.

There should be no titles, just fights. Stops all this nonsense

No Seanus my "paper champion" theory is based on one thing and one thing only and that is, if a guy is a world champion but not the best (or not proven the best) world champion in his weight division he is a paper champion. Therefore because he's not the best he's not REALLY the "world champion" because the very term implies you are champion of the world, that is No. 1, numero uno, the main Man, the big cheese etc. Froch is none of these things.

Frazier and Foreman were at one point in time "the main man" of the heavyweight division so were not paper champions were true world champions.