Scotland v Tonga: build up, banter and match day thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Tonga
Pittodrie, Aberdeen
Saturday 24 November 2012
KO:3pm

Last matches:

10 November - Italy 28 - 23 Tonga
17 November - Scotland 10 - 21 South Africa

Previous head to heads:

1974
Scotland XV 44-8 Tonga
28 September 1974, Murrayfield

1995
Scotland 41-5 Tonga
30 May 1995, Pretoria (RWC)

2001
Scotland 43-20 Tonga
10 November 2001, Murrayfield

2009
Scotland 'A' 38-7 Tonga
20 November 2009, Netherdale

Injuries:

Gray following concussion protocol

Big Al still tending to his calf strain

No other injuries announced

Latest provisional IRB World Rankings - top 12

1 New Zealand 92.91
2 South Africa 86.05
3 Australia 85.94
4 France 84.99
5 England 81.96
6 Argentina 79.89
7 Ireland 79.04
8 Wales 78.95
9 Samoa 78.79
10 Scotland 77.42
11 Italy 76.61
12 Tonga 74.51

Teams:
SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Max Evans (Castres)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)

10 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby)
9 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
2 Scott Lawson (London Irish)
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks)
5 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors)
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan)
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) (c)
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

Substitutes:

16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Kyle Traynor (Bristol Rugby)
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby)

19 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
20 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors)
21 Rory Lawson (Newcastle Falcons)
22 Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby)
23 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby)



TONGA

Vungakoto Lilo (Tarbes Pyrenees)

Fetu'u Vainikolo (Connacht)

Sukanaivalu Hufanga (Newcastle Falcons)

Sione Piukala (Perpignan)

Will Helu (Fasi Ma'ufanga)

Fangatapu Apikotoa (Amatori)

Taniela Moa (Pau)

Viliami Ma'afu (unattached);

Alisona Taumalolo (Perpignan)

Elvis Taione (Western Force)

Halani Aulika (London Irish)

Joe Tu'ineau (Aix en Provence)

Tukulua Lokotui (Wellington)

Hale T-Pole (Northland)

Nili Latu (captain, NEC)


Substitutes:


Ilaisa Ma'asi (Counties Manukau)

Tevita Mailau (Mont De Marsan)

Kamaliele Sakalia (Marist Tonga)

Sitiveni Mafi (Leicester)

Sione Timani (Llanelli)

Viliame 'longi (Marist Longoteme)

Eddie Paea (Eastern Suburbs)

Alipate Fatafehi (Lyon)

[Imperialbigdave]

Feel sorry for Blair unless it was his choice as per above. While he had a shocker on Saturday, the previous weekend I thought he was Scotland's best player v the ABs. Others have been consistently woeful game after game and do not get discarded - we all know who they are don't we ?

[Cryptoyourisan]

I'm not impressed at all with this team and Robinson has once again failed to develop the squad, although if Pyrgos plays well again things are looking less bleak at scrum-half going forward. Our front-five is looking fairly settled and has performed reasonably well, although still looks dodgy in the event of an injury.

I have no idea what Robinson intends to achieve by moving Kelly Brown around in the back-row. If Brown is not his first-choice blindside flanker, he shouldn't have been made captain because Brown is definitely not Scotland's best openside flanker or number eight. We might get away with not choosing our best player in every position to accommodate Robinson's favourites when we are playing Tonga but the Six Nations will be a different matter.

We know what de Luca, Evans and Lamont offer so their inclusion over some of the uncapped guys is a massive waste in what is essentially a nothing game. I don't expect Scotland to thrash Tonga but we should be beating them comfortably. This has been a fairly frustrating AI series and I really don't think Robinson's team in the Six Nations will be any closer to what most fans are clamouring to see.

[George Carlin]

Agreed Crypto. I'm all for 'giving them respect' and whatever other euphemisms it's conventional to trot out but if our A team can put 40 points on them, then we should be doing at least as well.

Am terrified that the players regard themselves as being a 'top 10 in the world' team and settle for that rather than pushing for better. We got to 6th in the world only 3 years ago.

I'll only be happy if we cut out the stupid mistakes, show some passion and tactical nous and win this very well. I don't give a flying proverbial about the Tongans' 'physicality'. It will be nothing in comparison to the Blacks at the breakdown and the Bokke in the tight.

[EST]

I'm not impressed at all with this team and Robinson has once again failed to develop the squad, although if Pyrgos plays well again things are looking less bleak at scrum-half going forward. Our front-five is looking fairly settled and has performed reasonably well, although still looks dodgy in the event of an injury.

I have no idea what Robinson intends to achieve by moving Kelly Brown around in the back-row. If Brown is not his first-choice blindside flanker, he shouldn't have been made captain because Brown is definitely not Scotland's best openside flanker or number eight. We might get away with not choosing our best player in every position to accommodate Robinson's favourites when we are playing Tonga but the Six Nations will be a different matter.

We know what de Luca, Evans and Lamont offer so their inclusion over some of the uncapped guys is a massive waste in what is essentially a nothing game. I don't expect Scotland to thrash Tonga but we should be beating them comfortably. This has been a fairly frustrating AI series and I really don't think Robinson's team in the Six Nations will be any closer to what most fans are clamouring to see.

Agree with all of this Crypto. This game should have been used to keep the core of the squad together, and starting 2-3 new faces - Pyrgos, Gilchrist and one of Horne or Dunbar in the centre. As it is we have guys like Evans and Lamont playing, and De Luca on the bench - when we know exactly what they can do. I appreciate that Gilchrist and Heatchote are on the bench, but 20 mins at the end of this game isn't going to achieve much. Neither is it our strongest squad, nor does it effectively bring players in for the future.

[tigertattie]

Just you wait

I've figured it out!

Robbo wants to concentrate on Scotland and make thema team to be reckoned with. If he went and made us great overnight he'd have been the lions coach and would have been taken away from us.

Now the Lions coach has been appointed and Gatland has left wales for a while, and look what has happened to them, Robbo will now show us he is a genius and the team will trot off and win the 6N's

.......................hey, it could happen?

[Pat_Mustard]

Agreed Crypto. I'm all for 'giving them respect' and whatever other euphemisms it's conventional to trot out but if our A team can put 40 points on them, then we should be doing at least as well.

Last time we went through a November Test series without beating one of the ex Tri Nations sides was 2008. On that occasion we lost to New Zealand by a distance, then South Africa more closely, before moving up to Aberdeen and posting a 41-0 win. It's an omen!

[Cryptoyourisan]

Agreed Crypto. I'm all for 'giving them respect' and whatever other euphemisms it's conventional to trot out but if our A team can put 40 points on them, then we should be doing at least as well.

Last time we went through a November Test series without beating one of the ex Tri Nations sides was 2008. On that occasion we lost to New Zealand by a distance, then South Africa more closely, before moving up to Aberdeen and posting a 41-0 win. It's an omen!

And then in the 2009 Six Nations started with an embarrassingly poor showing against Wales. I suppose Hadden's choice to pick Webster over Thom Evans that day shows that Robinson isn't the first Scotland coach to have been a woeful selector.

[GLove39]

Really looking forward to this game, so nice going to see an international without having to jump on a train for three hours beforehand.

[RDW]

Just read in the hootsman that Ford is expecting his first child any minute and may have to pull out the Edinburgh game at short notice - maybe explains why he's been dropped?

[tigertattie]

may also explain his poor form

[Biltong]

may also explain his poor form

Every time he goes into the tackle he must be thinking "don't hurt the baby, don't hurt the baby."

[RuggerRadge2611]

Anyone a wee bit concerned that Max Evans defensive frailties will be exposed tomorrow or is that just me?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Nah, not too worried, altho that may be a symptom of my new-found apathy for the AIs in general - will probably go watch London Scottish and am far more interested in Exeter's and Glasgow's results than I am what happens in Aberdeen - I feel slightly guilty for admitting that

[RuggerRadge2611]

Nah, not too worried, altho that may be a symptom of my new-found apathy for the AIs in general - will probably go watch London Scottish and am far more interested in Exeter's and Glasgow's results than I am what happens in Aberdeen - I feel slightly guilty for admitting that

You're starting to sound like that Irish mob....

"Province before country fella'!"

[caz]

Ryan Grant is struggling to shake off a shoulder injury so Gordy Reid has been called up.
So Traynor starts if Grant's not fit? Didn't see many Edinburgh games last season, will he cope?

[RDW]

will he cope?

In a word, no!

Our scrum will go from being a weapon to a worry.

[caz]

Any chance Gordy would get the start?

[RuggerRadge2611]

Any chance Gordy would get the start?

Here's hoping. My Gran could scrummage better than Traynor and she has been dead for 10 years.

The loss of Grant is something I don't even really want to consider. Traynor is just not a test class loosie.

Lets get chunk back for one last hurrah.

[RDW]

That's the thing - pretty bad timing for Chunk!

They must have known Grant would be struggling which again makes me think there's more to the Chunk retirement than has been let on.

[caz]

Would love to see Chunk back. I hope there wasn't anything other than him deciding it was time.

[Pat_Mustard]

From twitter:

Change in team v Tonga. Ryan Grant out with calf injury. Kyle Traynor to start at 1 with Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) on the bench.

Love sacks.
(I added that bit myself)

[Pat_Mustard]

Hey that's not what I added!

I thought it was supposed to be a shoulder injury anyway

[RDW]

Baws

[caz]

Sorry, I heard shoulder End result's the same tho'.

[Pat_Mustard]

This sucks. And front row is one area where Tonga have only top flight pros. Anyone seen their tighthead, plays for London Irish. Any good?

[tigertattie]

why do we opt to play monsters like tonga on a narrow pitch in aberdeen?

Surely our backs would much rather run round the tongans on a wide murrayfield pitch?

poor wee max evans will get steam rolled

[RuggerRadge2611]

What are the chances of Traynor coming out, munching his opposite number and forcing humble pie down our throats?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I care even less now

[R!skysports]

Come on ASBO - time to get excited - could be our only win in this country this year! (which is sad)

[sensisball]

With the scrum going backwards their 8 will be picking and running down guess which channel? Yup wee greg Laidlaw's.
But never fear we will have the man mountain that is Grant Gilchrist to come on and bully the Tongans up front, and De Luca can come on for the by then dazed and confused Max Evans and turn the game for us! If all else fails the wonder kid from Bath can come on for his first cap to replace the even more battered Greg Laidlaw.

I really couldnt make this scenario up in my wildest nightmare.

[RDW]

Few pointers from a Scotland point of view tonight:

Thank God Jackson isn't playing tomorrow - was shocking for Glasgow tonight

Chalmers is delusional - Scott Wight should be no where near the Scotland squad!

Ford had a pretty sore looking injury - here's hoping it's nothing serious

Tonks reminded everyone how ludicrous a decision it was that he was left out of the squad, especially over Murchie. Tonks was a standout player tonight - again!

Maybe being a bit harsh on the weedge considering the conditions, but there you go!

[sensisball]

RDW
dont know why you are even mildly annoyed by Robinson's inability to select in form new blood for his squads. Off the top of my head i can name Laidlaw (should have gone to world cup as Scotland's form 9). ryan Grant (should have gone to world cup after outstanding season for Glasgow instead he plumps for the absolute pants that was Al Dickinson), Rob Harley (should have had a 6 nations season under his belt covering for Brown, instead he has 1 cap off the bench in the summer)

HIs tactical errors are legend as well: making Ross Ford captain of Scotland when he has hardly any experience in the role with the inevitable pressure it brought to his game ( almost total melt downs in Dublin and Rome)
He simply cannot see the wood for the trees. However allowing himself to be in a position where Kyle Traynor is starting a game for Scotland is possibly a new nadir in terms of his selection blunders. Surely Gordon Reid, who can actually scrummage, can carry effectively and has been playing well in a winning team would be a better option?

Silly me, Traynor is playing rugby for Bristol (not too far from Bath) in the English championship (nearly as good as the Aviva) and his last outing was part of the team thrashed 53 - 3 by the mighty giants of European rugby that are Nottingham! Apparently playing for Bath, i mean Bristol,has given him a tougher edge to his game. An edge he clealry didnt have under Robinson's tutelage at Edinburgh, but he was still deemed by AR to be a better bet than Ryan Grant who Edinburgh let go the season after AR left for the Scotland job.

It makes no sense.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Few pointers from a Scotland point of view tonight:

Thank God Jackson isn't playing tomorrow - was shocking for Glasgow tonight

Chalmers is delusional - Scott Wight should be no where near the Scotland squad!

Ford had a pretty sore looking injury - here's hoping it's nothing serious

Tonks reminded everyone how ludicrous a decision it was that he was left out of the squad, especially over Murchie. Tonks was a standout player tonight - again!

Maybe being a bit harsh on the weedge considering the conditions, but there you go!

Agreed, think his point was more about a preference for home-grown, hmm we need Fordy, mystery - respectively to your points

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

RDW
dont know why you are even mildly annoyed by Robinson's inability to select in form new blood for his squads. Off the top of my head i can name Laidlaw (should have gone to world cup as Scotland's form 9). ryan Grant (should have gone to world cup after outstanding season for Glasgow instead he plumps for the absolute pants that was Al Dickinson), Rob Harley (should have had a 6 nations season under his belt covering for Brown, instead he has 1 cap off the bench in the summer)

HIs tactical errors are legend as well: making Ross Ford captain of Scotland when he has hardly any experience in the role with the inevitable pressure it brought to his game ( almost total melt downs in Dublin and Rome)
He simply cannot see the wood for the trees. However allowing himself to be in a position where Kyle Traynor is starting a game for Scotland is possibly a new nadir in terms of his selection blunders. Surely Gordon Reid, who can actually scrummage, can carry effectively and has been playing well in a winning team would be a better option?

Silly me, Traynor is playing rugby for Bristol (not too far from Bath) in the English championship (nearly as good as the Aviva) and his last outing was part of the team thrashed 53 - 3 by the mighty giants of European rugby that are Nottingham! Apparently playing for Bath, i mean Bristol,has given him a tougher edge to his game. An edge he clealry didnt have under Robinson's tutelage at Edinburgh, but he was still deemed by AR to be a better bet than Ryan Grant who Edinburgh let go the season after AR left for the Scotland job.

It makes no sense.

+1. Personally I am just sick of Robinson's uselessness

[bsando]

Looking forward to this game today!!! I think Scotland might even be able to pull off a proper game plan and play a full 80mins oh I kid, of course that isn't going to happen. Its going to be a painfully physical game and Scotland will probably leave it till last 10mins to put the game to bed. It would be extremely un-Scottish to put a game to bed in the 1st half. But i'll be happy to be proved wrong!!

After watching Edinburgh and Glasgow last night I am once again mystified by AR's decision to exclude Tonks from Scotland squad. Every time he gets the ball things start to go well for Edinburgh. I'd rather see Tonks at fullback than Hogg, hogg should be on the wing instead of lamont or maybe even at centre alongside scott.
11. visser
12. scott
13. hogg
14. maitland
15. Tonks

Goddam that would be good!! we'd have so much zip in the backs

[123456789]

I'm hoping for a Traynor injury early on, I don't think the scrum will go backwards with Euan Murray there although only in Scotland could you have a Lions contender on one side and a average to poor championship standard prop on the other side.
You can't really blame Robinson for Traynor playing (maybe Reid should have started) in normal circumstances there'd be Jacobsen, Grant, Welsh, Dickinson and maybe more ahead of him.
Was Jackson released so Glasgow could have him or has he fallen even further down the pecking order behind Laildaw, Weir and Heathcote?

[RDW]

Bit harsh to wish an injury on someone...

[justified sinner]

The way Jackson played last night it wouldn't surprise me if he was released by Glasgow, never mind Scotland. He's definitely 3rd choice, at best, at Glasgow now IMO.

[Imperialbigdave]

Wishing injury on someone's not cool.

[MacKnocked-on]

Good start, Heathcote knows the words to Flower of Scotland...

[bsando]

Lets go Scotland!!

[RDW]

Absolutely awful half from Scotland. Woeful!

[reallybored]

Can someone shut Andy Nicol up, the guy talks utter nonsense as a commentator.

That was dreadful, our game management is non-existent.

[bsando]

Can someone shut Andy Nicol up, the guy talks utter nonsense as a commentator.

That was dreadful, our game management is non-existent.

+ 1

[bsando]

Finally!! I've been yelling for someone to just bloody run the ball up and get involved!! Stop this kicking for territory, pickand drive rubbish!! Hjust run the ball up and keep doing it until the Tongan defence becomes scattered!

[Pot Hale]

Jeez this is close.

Any win by Tonga would move them ahead of Scotland

[RDW]

This is truly shocking.

[bsando]

That try came from Laidlaw kicking the ball up in the air on the half way line. Absolute RUBBISH!!!! I am SO angry!!!

[RDW]

[bsando]

I hope Tonga win, Scotland are playing like a bunch idiots and it would be an insult for Tonga to lose today.

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