Australia v South Africa, 2nd Test Adelaide

First topic message reminder :

November 22-26, Adelaide Oval
Start time: 1030 CST, 1100 EST, 0000 GMT

Australia:
1 Ed Cowan, 2 David Warner, 3 Rob Quiney, 4 Ricky Ponting, 5 Michael Clarke*, 6 Michael Hussey,
7 Matthew Wade† , 8 Peter Siddle, 9 James Pattinson, 10 Ben Hilfenhaus, 11 Nathan Lyon.

South Africa:
1 Graeme Smith*, 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers† , 6 Jacques Rudolph,
7 Faf du Plessis, 8 Morne Morkel, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Imran Tahir, 11 Rory Kleinveldt.

Four double centuries within a calendar year for Clarke - yes the pitch is totally benign, yes the injuries to Philander and more importantly to Kallis during the Test helped him - but that is one incredible feat, and one that not even The Don ever achieved.

Since assuming the captaincy Clarke has really grown as a batsman, and he looks in fantastic touch. Always such a nice player on the eye.

South Africa have a lot of questions to answer, though. They were totally sub-standard in every department, and no words can describe Imran Tahir. None that I'm allowed to type, anyway...

Is the Test mace cursed? England go from unbeatable destroyers to dithering wrecks and South Africa's wheels come off the moment they seize it.

Don't forget India, Fists.

Very true! Nobody quite has it in them to be dominant at this time, it seems. No ruthlessness that was last displayed by the great Aussie side.

Linebreaker wrote:The way things are going it could be different again KP_f.

Australia could even be on top. SA or India vying for 2nd place. We'll be more the wiser in the new year.

On the basis of this ongoing series...Aus won't get past SA....but will certainly get past Eng

and India will get past England also.

so there isn't much room for anything diffrent in the top-4 list that I put up....by the end of the year.

For Aus to get to the top.......the would have to beat India in India early in 2013.

so yeah...2013 will be a transitionary year for the rankings

Australia should hang their heads in shame for this pitch, though. A truly terrible track for Test cricket - where is the spice?

^Let both sides bat before passing a judgement.

Aus were 55-3 at one time

KP_fan wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:The way things are going it could be different again KP_f.

Australia could even be on top. SA or India vying for 2nd place. We'll be more the wiser in the new year.

On the basis of this ongoing series...Aus won't get past SA....but will certainly get past Eng

and India will get past England also.

so there isn't much room for anything diffrent in the top-4 list that I put up....by the end of the year.

For Aus to get to the top.......the would have to beat India in India early in 2013.

so yeah...2013 will be a transitionary year for the rankings

I meant we could possibly be ranked No. 1 for a month or so in 2013... before India.

Fists, it's a great pitch. Wait for days 4 & 5. Today was the best day with the bat there since 1910.

Also, it's quite hot in Adelaide... going to get hotter the next few days too. They even left more grass on than usual.

To be fair as well SA are missing half their first choice seam attack, and havent helped their cause by picking du Plesis

and Tahir...

However on the flip side we're carrying Cowan, Quiney............................. and Punter.

South Africa went only for the one pace back up and he doesn't look all that classy. De Lange is still injured? Thought it was a bit harsh on Tsotsobe to be dropped from the squad particularly when de Lange wasn't available.
For now, Rory doesn't look the part. Who are the upcoming pace prospects biltong?

msp83 wrote:South Africa went only for the one pace back up and he doesn't look all that classy. De Lange is still injured? Thought it was a bit harsh on Tsotsobe to be dropped from the squad particularly when de Lange wasn't available.
For now, Rory doesn't look the part. Who are the upcoming pace prospects biltong?

yeah they should have played Tsotsobe

Not having first choice attack is not an excuse....but an evidence of the lack of depth in that nations cricketing resources...hence making them less desrving of a sustained position on top.

it's not about getting there in a purple patch when the first choice 11 if fit and in the form of their lives....but also staying there.....when the back up resources of the country also get tested.

so far since 1980s...only WI throuhg 80s and Aus throuhg mid 90s to early 2000s showed the strength and depth to be really No.1 sides....rest including SA seemingly now have been transitonary

Yeah, it was only when retirements and injuries hit Australia that India became No.1 by default.

"We" started the rot as Duty has already said above.

msp83 wrote:South Africa went only for the one pace back up and he doesn't look all that classy. De Lange is still injured? Thought it was a bit harsh on Tsotsobe to be dropped from the squad particularly when de Lange wasn't available.
For now, Rory doesn't look the part. Who are the upcoming pace prospects biltong?

There aren't many with experience.

Tsotsobe, Parnell etc were all hopes but failed, Then you have to search for the U19 youngsters. We are going through a lean period in depth.

It was SA who took over from Australia in 2008. Then India took over from them, then England and then SA back again. In the postAustralia days, think India stayed on the longest so far, but the fall that eventually happened, was that much harder. SA can still hold on, but the number 1 ranking hasn't sat comfortably with them either.

Parnell has become more of the hopeless category of late. The first choice on form is absolute class, but then they have de Lange and not much more. Of the first choice group, Morkel's old bad habits are sneaking back a bit and Philander is going through a rough patch.
What about Chris Morris the all-rounder who played in the CLT 20?

You're right of course, msp.
Australia for 74 months then SA for about 4 months, India for about 20 months, then England the next 12... now SA for these last 4 months

India remained on top close to 2 years before all that got unravelled in England last year.

December '09 until July '11.

It is much easier to retain the number one ranking when you play at home, I said this at the beginning of the year, with SA playing so many away test series against top contenders it is highly unlikely for them to remain number 1.

But SA have been very successful away recently.

Today was a minor blip. Watch Australia implode with overconfidence in the next few days.

Not with that start LB, they will have to implode BIG TIME to drop this match.

We seem to have picked up that habit from others....

Australia is a very confident team at home, and the innings by Warner has given them even more confidence, I truly can't see us coming back in this one.

Promise me you're not trying to hex Australia?

msp83 wrote:India remained on top close to 2 years before all that got unravelled in England last year.

we had to lose 3-0 to surrender No.1 in that seriesin england...and India sukked in their selection of unfit and agenda players....and then Dhoni gave up. Eng were a better side......but a 2-0 or 2-1 was a better reflection had India gotten their selections and motivation right.

Anyway better late then never...and India is giving du attention to the lo ger version now...getting selections largely on merit

4-0 vs. Eng and 3-0 vs. Aus at home will see our stock rising and is we even draw with SA in SA....we would be back to No.1...but one game at a time is how team should look at it.

Yes, one game at a time... one day at a time. Let's keep our heads on.

Fists of Fury wrote:Australia should hang their heads in shame for this pitch, though. A truly terrible track for Test cricket - where is the spice?

Silly statement. This has been a typical Adelaide Test pitch with consistent bounce and carry and rewarding batsmen willing to play their shots. It also rewards bowlers who bowl intelligent lines and have plans to dismiss batsmen. But we saw none of that today. Why is it when a team scores runs some people immediately want to blame the pitch? The toss could have come down in Saffers favour but I can guarantee they wouldnt have been scoring 400 in a day...

slaterslc wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Australia should hang their heads in shame for this pitch, though. A truly terrible track for Test cricket - where is the spice?

Silly statement. This has been a typical Adelaide Test pitch with consistent bounce and carry and rewarding batsmen willing to play their shots. It also rewards bowlers who bowl intelligent lines and have plans to dismiss batsmen. But we saw none of that today. Why is it when a team scores runs some people immediately want to blame the pitch? The toss could have come down in Saffers favour but I can guarantee they wouldnt have been scoring 400 in a day...

+1
Some fearless batting displays today from Warner, Clarke and Hussey. Rightfully rewarded on the scoreboard.

Perhaps a typical Adelaide wicket may not be a great cricketing pitch? Well one good thing about this pitch I like is the assistant available for spinners somewhere down the line. But the major problem with the wicket is that after the new ball is done, there is very little for bowlers on the first 3 days. There has to be something for bowlers from day one with their role increasing by the day. I think that is a good cricket wicket. Adelaide, like many flat tracks prepared in India, could be a toss oriented pitch.

There was a little bit in this pitch for the bowlers early on but sure it did flatten out later on under the baking hot sun. It was just that after Warner's initial Sehwag-esque onslaught, the SA bowlers lost confidence and shape. Then Clarke and Hussey played some extraordinary good strokes against a waning attack - their run rate was incredible in that 2nd session especially.

Still a long way from and a very different character to anything in India I'd say. More pace and bounce available even on a day like today. That's why many international players enjoy playing there. It doesn't crumble as quickly as pitches do on the sub-continent but I do agree it's back breaking work for seam bowlers on days 2 & 3 usually.

It's been pretty much like that for over 100 years now. Let's wait and see how this match pans out - still a long way to go yet.

Adelaide has produced some great games over the years (ill always remember AusvEngland 2006) . It generally rewards good batting AND good bowling. But mediocre effort gets punished. I know they had injuries but the bowling attack appeared to give up today. It was almost as if they went into the Test with no plan except "we are south africa, we will bowl you out".

As you say LB theres a long way to go and this will be a real test for the Australian bowlers and their strategies to get key wickets.

msp83 wrote:Perhaps a typical Adelaide wicket may not be a great cricketing pitch? Well one good thing about this pitch I like is the assistant available for spinners somewhere down the line. But the major problem with the wicket is that after the new ball is done, there is very little for bowlers on the first 3 days. There has to be something for bowlers from day one with their role increasing by the day. I think that is a good cricket wicket. Adelaide, like many flat tracks prepared in India, could be a toss oriented pitch.

Agree with you, MSP.

What is in store for tomorrow? Clarke going on to 300 and beyond? Wade getting a ton? Pattinson and siddle with 50s? Well the pitch did turn flat after the new ball was done, but it was pretty poor bowling from South Africa. And now its confirmed, Jacques Kallis, SA's best bowler by a long way, won't be bowling any more in the match although the good news for SA is that he can bat latter. Will Imran Tahir bounce back from the pasting of today? Will Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel limit further damage with a ball that still is pretty new? For SA, everything, absolutely everything depends on how that first session goes. Another bad session. it will be very dificult to even think of a win. If Australia get away with minimal damage in that first session, they could bat long, score 700+ and then the scoreboard pressure itself will be too much for South Africa, with their best batsman not fully fit, and a very suspect lower middle order.
I just hope South Africa somehow turn it all around.

I really like matches at Adelaide. The pitch is flat to start with, but you often still get a result, and it complements the other grounds which often have a bit in them for the pacers quite well.

Clarke was stunning today, and Warner and Hussey excellent too.

How far can Clarke go? Will he go on to 400 if he gets support?

Kleinveldt looks distinctly average, and Tahir is surely playing his last Test (barring any second innings heroics).

So I'd like to pose a question regarding the now so called 'Great' Michael Clarke.

He has scored 4 scores of over 200 in the calendar year of 2012. Only man to ever do this.

His Test average in now 52.

But looking closer at his stats, his home average is an imperious 67. Whereas his away average is a more moderate 41.

So now to the question, is Michael Clarke a hometown bully?

If seen numerous subcontinental batsmen ridiculed over the years for plundering runs for fun at home.

Yes is very impressive to score 329*, 259*, 224* and 210 but should big score away from home prove more meaning?

Just like at guys like Amla and Cook, they've shown the determination to get the massive scores in foreign conditions.

I don't think Clarke is particularly a home-town bully. Certainly, I think he should be Australia's best batsman in the sub-continent too (where he made his century on debut).

Perhaps he has slight issues against the moving ball, but that didn't stop him making an imperious ton in the Cape Town Test last year.

Overall, he's developing into the excellent player we all thought he would be and is emerging, along with Cook, Amla, KP and de Villiers as one of the stand-out players of his generation.

I'm not saying that Clarke isn't a skilful player.

I just wanted to point out that his mega innings only happen at home.

Obviously the saying 'Home is where the heart is' rings true for Clarke.

But the other batsmen you mentioned KP ABDV Amla and Cook score the monster scores away from home comforts.

I think Clarke needs to get a 200-250 in foreign conditions to be in the same bracket as the other 4 players.

Not at all imo. Maybe he was just born to be a leader, because it is only since he became captain that his home average has sky-rocketed and he has not played many Tests away as skipper. And an away ave of over 41 is still very good. All the more brilliant considering the fluctuating form of the top order. Without his prolific form, i doubt Aus would be in with a chance of reclaiming the No1 spot.

Does it also mean that Amla and Cook can not handle home pressure, because their away records are far superior to their home ones?

Please, please, please Mr Clarke, go for Lara's record today. Could have done it against India, but this time plenty of time in hand even on this pitch.

Unlikely but possible, and a shame Hussey went to the last ball of the first day.

skyeman wrote:Please, please, please Mr Clarke, go for Lara's record today. Could have done it against India but this time, plenty of time in hand even on this pitch.

Unlikely but possible, and a shame Hussey went to the last ball of the first day.

I'd love him to go for it, but I don't think he will.

He likes to put the team first, and will probably go aggressive this morning and declare if/when he gets his triple.

One thing Lara did was put himself first - when he got his 501 he told Dermot Reeve not to declare because he knew he was going to do something special. Similarly, as captain in 2004 when he got the 400 he liked the look of Gareth Batty too much to declare.

Shelsey93 wrote:

skyeman wrote:Please, please, please Mr Clarke, go for Lara's record today. Could have done it against India but this time, plenty of time in hand even on this pitch.

Unlikely but possible, and a shame Hussey went to the last ball of the first day.

I'd love him to go for it, but I don't think he will.

He likes to put the team first, and will probably go aggressive this morning and declare if/when he gets his triple.

One thing Lara did was put himself first - when he got his 501 he told Dermot Reeve not to declare because he knew he was going to do something special. Similarly, as captain in 2004 when he got the 400 he liked the look of Gareth Batty too much to declare.

I make you right Shelsey, but i would just love to see that particular record be broken.

Just watched the first hour and does it look a different pitch. The ball doing plenty. Aus going from 482/5 to 504/9 and if you include Hussey losing their last 5 wkts for 22.

Morkel getting his first 5fer against Aus including a peach to bowl Clarke.

SA should be worried. Maybe having to face a tricky half hour before lunch.

Tahir getting spanked for 12 in his first over today. The last pair adding a rapid 35 thus far.

Aus 539/9.

Australia 550 all out.

Good response so far from Petersen and Smith. 117-0. Smith on 57, Petersen on 47.

Lyon has already outbowled Tahir. He hasn't taken a wicket, but has gone for only 21 in his 10 overs. Tahir gave away 15-20 every 2nd over.

134-0 South Africa. Smith on 67, Petersen on 54.

Australia have got a wicket, and its a run out. Petersen run out for 54. Hashim Amla has joined his captain.

Smith saved on review, of a caught behind call of the bowling of Pattinson. 148-1.

Oh, Warne ER into the attack and the leggy has taken out Hashim Amla!!. Good captaincy from Clarke, he saw Lyon was getting the ball to turn, he brought Warner on and he got Amla stumped. Wade almost made a mess of it, but Amla was so far out that he had no chance to take advantage.