England players good - game plan needs to change as does EPS

by sausage1966 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 1:35 pm

No surprises with the team - Great pack. Our backs are good also but I hope our game plan changes. To date, the forwards win the ball and everyone knows Manu is going to try and bash through the centre - to date - that has been it - punctuated by kicks no one seems to really chase with any commitment. We will only provide real opposition if we apply pressure - keep possession and provide lightning quick ball to runners. A glacial ball to a statue will get smashed. Play an expansive game OR play a forwards game. Our compromise plan isn't working to a level which will trouble the Kiwi's. I still fail to understand the benefits of the EPS - we are playing the worlds best with ONE out of form winger. Varndell and Wade are on fire yet they cant be picked. Against the Kiwi's that is insane. Ashton rarely gets the ball, and when its passed to him, he couldn't pick up a Welsh bird in a pink hat in Swansea at closing.

by Guest Thu 29 Nov 2012, 1:37 pm

A Wasps man sausage?

by sausage1966 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 1:38 pm

Yes - but also top 2 try scorers....

by gregortree Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:09 pm

Good Grief, welcome back to (new) 606 Sausage ! clap

by maestegmafia Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:11 pm

Interesting how HERSH Iis banne one day and Sausage1966 appears the next...?

by gregortree Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:14 pm

Maes
I think they were both on old the 606, and also Sausage is Wasps, not a Bath man.

Maybe Sausage has been avoiding AWOP. ghost

Its ok Saus, safe to come back now.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:15 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Interesting how HERSH Iis banne one day and Sausage1966 appears the next...?

Sausage is genuine Maes

by sausage1966 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:20 pm

Respectfully - I have NOTHING to do with Hersh. On Facebook 606 I was advised that he had been banned - so I thought I would give this another try. Nice welcome chaps!!

by maestegmafia Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:23 pm

Apologies Sausage. I jumped the gun with some presumption there.

Welcome, I hope you enjoy yourself here as much as we all do.

by Cyril Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:23 pm

Welcome sossie!

Hope nobody has been planting daffs in your garden again recently Laugh

by gregortree Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:24 pm

Sausage, you are genuinely welcome man, nice to have an insightful fellow England fan back on here.

Also hope you are ok about Gloucester being ahead of Wasps this season.
Hersh pretended to be anti Glos, but he secretly liked his W Country rivals.

by sausage1966 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:35 pm

Thanks guys. Things on FB 606 have been fantastic - but following the recent exclusion orders by the mods on here, I thought I would pop back and say hi to my old sparring partners. I do occasionally read the posts and am pleased V2 has done so well.

I have been to the last 3 AI's but will; be watching this one at the club.

And Cyril - I have stayed daff free. Glad you remember!!

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:36 pm

Cyril and Sausage...no wonder all the Welsh are quitting the site.

by sausage1966 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:37 pm

Peter - they are all on my FB page.... well. The nice ones at least

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:40 pm

So brings you here? You got banned from your own FB page?

by Morgannwg Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:55 pm

Remember when the Welsh guys at work altered your nametag, changing the letter L to an N?

by sausage1966 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 3:57 pm

Morgannwg - I do. Still not funny Crying or Very sad

by Morgannwg Thu 29 Nov 2012, 4:02 pm

I found it funny when you told us all. Do you and nottins still grab a pint every now and then? Funny, we were discussing all the old 606 posters and articles a few days ago. You and your tales were mentioned and now here you are Laugh

. BTW, I think I'd have to agree with you on Christian Wade. Ashton only seems to be good as a finisher, very good. Varndell however has always struggled in the England team. I see him as just a good club/Saxons/Sevens player.

by sausage1966 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 4:10 pm

I am flattered. Tom has 4 caps and 3 tries - one against New Zealand. Not bad really. FYI I met Nottins once. I met up with EnglishmaninWales at Fiji game - immense fun. Very messy. 8 pints before kick off......

by Morgannwg Thu 29 Nov 2012, 4:17 pm

Oh okay, maybe it was his form for the Saxons? Bit erratic? I don't watch often I just usually read what's said about Varndell on here. Ah I see, I guess once was more than enough times. Can't say I blame you.

by BristolDave Thu 29 Nov 2012, 4:26 pm

sausage1966 wrote:I am flattered. Tom has 4 caps and 3 tries - one against New Zealand. Not bad really. FYI I met Nottins once. I met up with EnglishmaninWales at Fiji game - immense fun. Very messy. 8 pints before kick off......

Hope not this kind of messy vomit

by Guest Thu 29 Nov 2012, 4:36 pm

Real sausage?
Hows the gain line? and your wikipedia tab open ready for stats?

by Guest Thu 29 Nov 2012, 4:38 pm

Nottins,dear me sausage you that desperate for friends? kiss

by sausage1966 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 4:45 pm

Yes viewtothegym - very desperate - I even have some Welsh ones.

by tigerleghorn Thu 29 Nov 2012, 5:34 pm

sausage1966 wrote:I am flattered. Tom has 4 caps and 3 tries - one against New Zealand. Not bad really. FYI I met Nottins once. I met up with EnglishmaninWales at Fiji game - immense fun. Very messy. 8 pints before kick off......

What's TV's tackling like now then Sausage? Good enough to stop the AB's?

by Hound_of_Harrow Thu 29 Nov 2012, 6:07 pm

viewtothegym wrote:Nottins,dear me sausage you that desperate for friends?

You're barking up the wrong cactus (ouch).

Saus was a poster from BBC 606 - usually around 6N time. I can assure you he is not masquerading as anyone else.
thumbsup

+ it's nice to have another Wasp on board.
Smile

by HammerofThunor Thu 29 Nov 2012, 6:21 pm

The benefit of the EPS is that we have more time with the players for training, we limit the number of games the top players have, we have some control over their medical and training issues during the season, forces some sort of consistency. Basically it gives us the same sort of setup as almost all top level international sides.

The guys everyone complains about being 'stuck with' due to EPS are generally selected when the coach can do what they like so it's not down to limited changes.

Regarding the other issues, well having very good finishing wingers isn't really going to help us at the moment is it? We have no space out wide and are generally outnumbered. I certainly wouldn't be against Wade being included.

PS Welcome Sausage.

by sausage1966 Fri 30 Nov 2012, 11:38 am

Thank you Hammer. And thank you Hound for the reference!

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:29 pm

At the risk of sounding more bent than a dirty copper, let me say: 'Welcome, sausage.'

In terms of your post, something for me feels out of balance for this England side. The game against the Wallabies showed they still have issues in the pack. I do agree though the problem seems more out in the backline. Not sure about the 10 and centre pairing and agree Wade deserves a crack at test level.

The tactics seem a little too conservative for me from SL. He obviously has faith his pack can obtain enough possession but chancing his arm a little more in attack wouldn't hurt. Wales showed a game similar to what it seems SL wants can be successful in the 6N but, much like SA has found out this year, in order to be competitive in world rugby you have to offer up a little more in terms of variety.

by **LondonTiger** Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:38 pm

There isn't ever enough "go forward" provided. Fowards are taking the ball standing still, while neither Care nor Youngs have looked to use their excellent running game.

The net result is we try and move ball wide behind the gain line against an organised defence.

by gregortree Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:38 pm

Kia, yes, the centre partnership is chunky, defensively solid, penetrative, as in 'battering ram' penetrative. These guys are not Greenwood or Guscott, but they will tackle all day. they may need to against Nonu etc. In that sense, yes, conservative.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:44 pm

The problem is the battering ram comes more in the way at 13. There's no space being created on the outside for the back three. You tie up the battering ram and the threat out wide is cut off. Why not use the battering ram more of as a decoy and have the wing or fullback enter the line running on the angle moving towards where the ball has come from, for example? Or an angled grubber through from Flood to get Manu taking the ball and taking on the last man rather than the defensive line and freeing himself up in the tackle to release to the winger outside. It doesn't have to be complicated. Just something to keep the defence second guessing themselves. At the moment it's too predictable.

by gregortree Fri 30 Nov 2012, 1:02 pm

I agree. If Manu could slip in the occasionally sneaky offload, while taking out his usual two tacklers, or break the gain line & pass, or 10 could put in a few neat grubbers a lá Aussies, it would keep the ABs guessing, and be so refreshing to see apart from anything else. Sadly our zippy wingers hardly receive a good pass all game.

Burns at 10 should vary things up quite a lot when he comes on. He has a pass, vision, a step, a run and a neat grubber / chip over in his arsenal. Thats without mentioning his long range accuracy, posts and touch. This AB test will be an interesting measure of the lad.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Nov 2012, 1:06 pm

The onus shouldn't all be on Manu though. If the wingers don't get ball then they need to come infield and look for the ball themselves and get in an offload and put someone in space and show the big fella how it's done. A winger or a fullback always have to look as if they're desperate to get their hands on the pill. If you stay out wide all day and catch a cold you've only got yourself to blame.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 30 Nov 2012, 1:20 pm

Unless your coach tells you to

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Nov 2012, 1:32 pm

Even then you don't. Despite what Kidney or PDV or Meyer gave as instructions, those teams played their best when the game plan went out the window and they did what they do best.

by Taylorman Sat 01 Dec 2012, 12:15 am

Manus never played the ABs and frankly I think the occasion will get to him. He'll face bigger samoans on the field and the only time he does that are when he plays Samoa internationally.

I know he's the go to man for Englands back attack but there is no way he'll get room to breathe let alone run. He may make a break or two as hes that talented but the ABs know if they stick it to Manu, they'll have the English backline.

I think he'll get frustrated and try too hard, then go quiet. ABs will target him for their linebreaks.

by doctor_grey Sat 01 Dec 2012, 8:07 am

I think one of the problems with Varndell is he doesn't track plays very well. And he frequently gets ahead of the ball carrier. Did it against Leicester again last week. Limits his effectiveness.

Wade on the other hand, appears to have the goods. I would like to see him get a run in the Six Nations.

But, overall, Varndell and Wade appear to work extremely well as a pair. Better than the sum of the parts. Frequently popping up next to each other on attack. Terrific wing play.

by yappysnap Sat 01 Dec 2012, 10:13 am

Taylorman wrote:Manus never played the ABs and frankly I think the occasion will get to him. He'll face bigger samoans on the field and the only time he does that are when he plays Samoa internationally.

I know he's the go to man for Englands back attack but there is no way he'll get room to breathe let alone run. He may make a break or two as hes that talented but the ABs know if they stick it to Manu, they'll have the English backline.

I think he'll get frustrated and try too hard, then go quiet. ABs will target him for their linebreaks.

The problem with Manu when he meets guys bigger, tougher and more physical then him he ends up getting in to a grudge match with them and spends far too much time targetting them and trying to get big hits on them. As seen in SA this can be to the detriment of the rest of the team.

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