England centres - what's the plan now?

The eternal question for England. We've had four successive series now without continuity in the centre partnership. Tuilagi's injury last year allowed Tomkins in for the AIs and then Burrell for the 6Ns. The schedule in the summer and Twelvetrees' injury meant that we started with Eastmond first NZ test before temporarily reverting to Twelvetrees and Burrell, and then more injuries to Tuilagi and Burrell left us with two of Barritt, Twelvetrees, Eastmond and Farrell this Autumn.

So what's the situation if and when we've got everyone back fit? Who should be first choice? Who actually is first choice?

Barritt
I've not always been much of a fan of his, but he was immense yesterday. High tackle count, carries and a great line leading to Morgan's first try. Wales (size and power) and Australia (width and pace) pose very different threats in the backs, but if yesterday is anything to go by then he could be vital in stopping both. That said, I don't think he should stay at 13. When he received that floated pass from Twelvetrees I thought he looked slow for someone in that position, and turned a potential 2 on 1 into a 2 on 2 by not being able to stay outside his defender and occupy Watson's. I'd have him as a 12 option rather than considering him at 13.

Farrell
Having an extra kicker at 12 is handy, but I'm not sure his passing is really good enough to justify selecting a 12 who isn't much of a running threat himself. His pass to May yesterday after the 30m maul stalled the move in a promising position. He did look on a bit of a mission when he came on though, so it will be interesting to see his form over the next two months. Some have said he looks like he needs a holiday. I think it's the opposite.

Twelvetrees
Bit of an enigma. He clearly has a great pass and kick, can tackle, can run and can offload - everything you want in a 12 - but seems hesitant at times with the ball and can be undisciplined in defence. That said, he's grown into the role in each series of games he's played. Shockers against Australia and France last season, but by the end of the AIs and the 6Ns he was flying. I suspect the coaches still want him to turn into their 12, so I'd guess his WC participation will be decided in the training camp before the squad is cut next summer.

Eastmond
Doesn't have the space at international level that he does at Bath and has struggled to get anywhere. Not sure about his distribution either. Brown should have caught the pass against New Zealand, but I was right in line and my first reaction the moment he threw it was that the pass was pretty awful and probably forwards. His defence has held up fine though, and he may have had more of a chance outside of more in-form half backs. If Ford is nailed on at 10 then that makes it a tricky one. Go with an established club combo, or avoid picking two players that small in midfield when our World Cup group will involve facing Roberts, North, Cuthbert and Davies?

Tuilagi
Our most threatening centre since Greenwood, though not quite in the same way. Ludicrously powerful, fast, good offload, good try scoring record. Defences are rightly scared of him. Bound to come straight back in.

Burrell
Great in the Six Nations at 13 during Tuilagi's injury. Not quite the same physical threat with the ball in hand, but makes up for it by running some really good lines. Suspect he's seen as a second-choice Manu.

I'd guess that leaves us with 12. Barritt 13. Manu in Cardiff. Tried and tested, and gives Ford a lot of experience and power to work with. Can't see them going with Ford/Eastmond against that Welsh backline. Lancaster has pretty much always selected Manu when he's been available (can only think of the Italy game this year, when he wasn't match fit anyway). In 2011 Johnson went with 3 specialist centres plus Banahan and Flood. If Barritt and Manu are nailed on then that would leave one specialist spot, with perhaps Farrell as an extra option. May could also be an emergency option for the last 20 minutes of games. 

Which of Twelvetrees, Eastmond and Burrell would people like to see there and why? Would anyone prefer Joseph, who could also cover wing at a push? Wild speculation and hype about Sam Burgess is also welcome.

I think Eastmond has the most talent out of the options available at 12. Granted there are valid questions over his size especially with the monstrous welsh back line next up at the Millennium. But he imo is the only option that can bring that acceleration and fizz into out back line that we saw with the Aussies on Saturday that so many of us crave. Also while he has had his chances, compared to 12T they have been minimal. He's literally only played against the top 2 sides in the world and during the autumn outside a dreadfully out of form Farrell. I think if we give this guy a few run of games and some time especially considering he is a league convert as well, he could provide the spark we need in this back line. Lancaster's decision to omit him from the side after SA completely bemused me.

Plan - I don't think there is one. In all seriousness its a real issue - all the contenders have been given game time, none of them really look like setting the grass on fire. Throw the dice?

Farrell should not play any centre roll unless it is an emergency, their is no one else on the bench to cover.

Burrell should at least be given a chance to get back in the squad.
We cannot keep relying on Manu all the time.

Also i think if he playing well for his club Joseph should be allowed to stake his claim for the centre partnership.

England should get away from playing any player out of their proper position, Brown who is a full back and not a winger for example.

England need to stop experimenting right now and start building the squad for the up and coming Rugby World Cup.....and beyond that as well.

I think the centre combinations depends on how England want to play the game.

They could go for the Warrenball esq options of a Burrell and Tuilagi combination and use an out and out power game to try and bully the opposition. Whilst I think this would work against lesser opposition, I don't think it would be enough to win a world cup and smarter/stronger teams would find a way to nullify it.

They could go for the al out attack/flair approach of Aus, select Eastmond and Joseph, and throw the ball around trying to create something, but I don't think England have the all round players to offer this approach without sacrificing key elements of the game elsewhere. Its not in their nature to play this way.

I think what England need to do is play a very intelligent game, tactically orientated, something we rarely do, and also play a low error count game. The most infuriating thing for me over this year has been the number of occasions whereby we're a good position and a basic error or poor decision making lets us down. Forgive the football analogy but less Arsenal and more Chelsea. Clinical. Certainly to do this England 2 key decision makers at 10 and 12. The England management know this hence their insistence on looking for that option, but to do it you need 2 very intelligent players in those positions who have very low error counts.

The sad thing is we are no nearer that solution.

For 10 I think ford has nailed his chance and will be the number 1 going forward. Farrell on form is an asset to the team although I have always questioned his decision making ability as a 10 as he too often commits himself to the breakdowns leaving the team leaderless for the next phase, he's a fantastic player but he hasn't had the foundation of a 10 throughout the age grades and it shows. Despite what he thinks he's not a 10 and I think we need to cultivate another all round 10. Its a shame because Goode was always a good 10 at age grade, has all the attributes, but never bought it through to senior rugby. Slade is another age grade 10 who has the all round game but is now playing at 13 for Exeter. I don't think Burns or Cipriani can be trusted to play the structured game England need to succeed, hence they're not selected. The only other option is Myler.

13 is pretty much nailed I think. England want a power runner at 13 full stop. Tuilagi is the number 1 for the jersey and I think Barritt will take the back up slot. Personally I would prefer Burrell at 13 over Barritt as he offers a similar presence to Tuilagi going forward but I get the impression he's not trusted. Lancaster is all about the right attitude and I think Burrell's hissy fit when he got taken off against Italy in the 6Ns for Tuilagi may have done him no good. As an outside bet, I think England would like Burgess to be bought on as a 13 to offer the same impact Tuilagi offers.

As for 12, who knows! I'm a big fan of Twelvetrees, and have been calling for him to play all autumn, but I have to admit I was very disappointed with his performance yesterday and his defence was appalling leaving too many dog legs. He has the skillset but he is not going to get the consistency needed in time for the RWC and should be dropped. I don't think Eastmond offers what England want and hasn't got the skillset to either, hence his dropping for the last 2 tests. I think England want Farrell there and he would've been this weekend had he not been so off form. They used him there in the 6Ns against Italy with a Ford Farrell Tuilagi midfield at the end and, when all available and on form, I think this offers everything they want.

I don't mind that combination if I'm honest. The only concern I would have is the back 3 lacks something to compliment it. I think England have found their wingers moving forward in May and Watson as they are big enough guys to make an impact physically, good in the air, but also intelligent and exceptionally fast as well. My issue is with Brown. He's a fantastic fullback, even when he's not at his best, but if your looking to play with this 10 12 decision making axis you need a strike runner at 15 as well, someone who is going to enter the line, on an angle, at speed and really take the defence on and he doesn't do this enough for me. He's great in ever other facet of his game, which is why he is continually selected, bar this. We need someone with the attacking ability of an Abendonen if your going to play Ford and Farrell together. The issue is the only fullback in contention who offers this threat is Foden, but he lacks in other areas for me. I wouldn't mind seeing Nowell getting some more game time at 15 for Exeter as he could provide that threat we need in addition to the all round game of Brown.

Plan A: wrap Manu in bubble-wrap; I'm beginning to wonder if he's made of glass.

Plan B: play 12T for eternity or until he becomes the player he clearly isn't - whichever comes first.

Plan C: pray that Plan A works.


IC: everyone wants to drop him because he's not a playmaker or a glider, but no-one dares because he's the best of the lot. Step forward Brad.

OC: the brittle Manu, understudied by the slightly less brittle Burrell (who might be compete for the 12 shirt).

Either Burrell and Manu (which might be OK outside Ford) or Farrell and Manu, which would allow a backup kicker and Burrell (or Burgess) to come on in jersey 22 as a great impact sub, but might sacrifice breaking the gainline.

So it's still very much a BIG man hitting fellas at pace game that's going to be best suited to WC victory?

Well, even if Gatland goes nowhere with Wales, he'll be right pleased his blueprint was adopted as the best gameplan.

Live long and prosper GatlandBall.

With Ford as first choice FH, Barritt, Burrell & Tuilagi would be my principal three squad centres.  Given they know each other well Barritt & Tuilagi is probably the correct call for the start of the 6N in Cardiff.  I've wanted to have a good look at a Burrell & Tuilagi partnership for a while, I'm just not sure the opening match on a Friday night at the Millennium is the best time to try and bed it in.  They obviously had the 2nd half of the third NZ test, but that was a very compromised and difficult situation to try and find your feet in as a pairing, and although they certainly shored things up I don't think it told us much about how it would work if starting a match and with weeks of focus in build up.  It would depend on how it looked in training.

I think Eastmond or Joseph could be decent options for some games as dynamic injections of something different from the bench.  You'd primarily want to bring them on in the centres but they could do a job covering the wing.  Joseph spent a lot of his early career on the wing, including all his England U20 caps I believe, and Eastmond played wing for the first half of his first full season at Bath, with a pretty decent scoring rate of 3 tries in his first 7 games.  There aren't any notable options who regularly play centre and wing, so there is always going to be some element of compromise in the cover we get from that bench spot and I don't feel the back-up wings or FBs are particularly demanding inclusion in the matchday squad at present.

I know injury will dictate much of the selection for the wider squad and for the match day 22 but who ever he views as first choice, rightly or wrongly, needs to be given the entirety of the 6Ns to form that partnership before the showcase event next autumn.

No chopping and changing but just give them the game time and live with it.

That goes for 9 and 10 as well. In fact all the positions

jamesandimac you are forcing me to defend Farrell Jr.

You say he's not a 10. I am sorry but that's rubbish. He might be mentally and physically shot at the moment but doesn't mean he should be written off. Farrell Jr has in general been good at 10 - it's just been since this year's 6 nations when he's been poor. He just needs to sort himself - mostly in the mental stakes.

Farrell Jr is certainly not a centre.


Nice to see Brad Barritt getting some recognition of his effort. I have so much respect for Brad Barritt. He's a warrior, a grafter, a leader and a nice bloke.

barney mcgrew it can't argue with that.

majesticimperialman wrote:Farrell should not play any centre roll unless it is an emergency, their is no one else on the bench to cover.

Burrell should at least be given a chance to get back in the squad.
We cannot keep relying on Manu all the time.

Also i think if he playing well for his club Joseph should be allowed to stake his claim for the centre partnership.

England should get away from playing any player out of their proper position, Brown who is a full back and not a winger for example.

England need to stop experimenting right now and start building the squad for the up and coming Rugby World Cup.....and beyond that as well.

How exactly do you build a squad up without experimenting? surely you have to experiment to find out what fits best?

Nathan the problem is that Lancaster still doesn't have an ideal centre partnership.

Experimenting is fine if you find the solution but Lancaster hasn't yet and he's running out of time.

Ford doesn't need a twelvetrees like Farrell does. His selection opens it up a bit. Needs to work on his place kicking mind and get into the gym building up those quads. His size isn't a problem. He's the same size at Pat Lambie... but Lambie can smash bombs over. Both a little erractic mind. But young so they can improve, its something that can heavily improve.

He needs to give JW and Dave Alfred a call.

One of the issues is that Manu has missed almost all of 3 of the last 4 international series - if I've counted it right, from the end of the 6Ns 2013, Manu has started at outside centre once in 15 matches, along with one start on the wing and one substitute appearance at 13.

Of those who have replaced him at 13, Burrell did a good job last 6Ns, and I'm sure has a place in the squad either as back-up to both centres or perhaps as the starter at 12 (needs to be tried, but obviously with the fear of being a bit one-dimensional). Barritt has never let England down, but is better suited to 12, where his relative lack of pace is less of an issue.

If Manu can get and stay fit, the big question is who should be at 12?
Barritt as I said above is reliable. Will tackle anything coming his direction, will carry the ball up hard and straight, gets involved at the ruck effectively when needed and his passing is probably a bit better than most give credit for. The down side is he lacks pace and so will never set the world alight in attack.

12trees I think was brilliantly summed up by GeordieFalcon last week - we all like the theory of Twelvetrees in being pretty big, quick, can kick effectively and with distribution skills. Problem is that in international rugby he has rarely been anywhere near as good in practice as he is on paper.

Eastmond - was surprised to see him jettisoned after the first two AIs. OK, didn't have great performances in either game, but I got the impression things were starting to click, and that a big performance could have been just round the corner, especially with Ford at 10. Offers something different from the other options, with speed off the mark, footwork and some handling skills, and stood up well in defence against the ABs and Boks.

Burrell: IIIRC, has yet to start at 12 for England, although plays most of his club rugby there. With his ability to run good support lines, he could thrive on the space given by Ford on the inside and Manu on the outside, but he has no kicking game to speak of, and his distribution would probably be described as adequate rather than good.

Assuming everyone is fit, I'd expect to see a midfiled of Ford-Barritt-Tuillagi starting in Cardiff, with Burrell potentially coming in for Barritt later in the series. Eastmond perhaps to cover the threequarters from the bench (allowing Watson or May to be cover for 15).

Love to see Eastmond on the bench. Can cover most of the backline, and you'd expect him to be able to do most damage when teams are stretched out of shape late on.

If we do play him we do need to make sure that other backs are capable of being in the right place at the right time to make the most of his distribution skills.

For me I would try Burrell and Manu. It may not be that subtle, but at least Burrell plays 12 for Saints and Manu 13 for Tigers. They would at least be in their right positions. The downside would be the kicking game would take a hit. This would place a greater burden on the 15....maybe time to give Goode another go at 15 instead of Brown who has not impressed lately. Goode can come in as the 2nd play maker when required and he does bring the wings into play more than Brown.

In order of preference I would go for....

12. Burrell, Barritt, Eastmond, 36

13. Manu, Burrell (can play both), Joseph

hugehandoff

To be honest, how often do our centres kick anyway? Box kicks from the scrum half, clearances from 10 or 15 and attacking up and unders from the 10 and 15 have been the order of the day for the last several years anyway. I think taking away a serious kicking option from 12 is something that looks more significant on paper than it would really be - heck, the only times I remember 12trees kicking the ball are one good grubber leading to a try and one hoof downfield when there was possibly an overlap outside him (iirc, against France in last year's 6Ns).

I'm not far from agreeing with your rankings of the 12 and 13 options - I suspect Barritt will start ahead of Burrell at 12 for the 6Ns (if everyone is fit), but certainly think it is work giving Burrell and Manu a go together.

I'm not sure why Brown had been taking stick - from what I've seen he may have been slightly down on his outstanding form of the last 6Ns, but he has still been very solid under the high ball, beaten defenders and made yards frequently, plus kicked well from defensive positions and made some inmportant tackles*. I certainly don't see any reason to go back to Goode, as he would seriously undermine our counter-attacking options.

* The one thing that still looks a weakness with Brown is his effectiveness joining the line in attack. Sometimes good (as with his try and assist v Samoa) and sometimes his hands let him down (dropping the pass from Eastmond early against the ABs)

Dummy...valid point on the effectiveness of having a kicker at 12. I think we certainly need to see Burrell and Manu play together. Then bring on Burgess for a more creative touch!

I am also not against Barritt at 12 as good defences can certainly win international matches and RWCs. But it would be great to see more of him in attack.

As for Brown...I think that he just does not link in with his wingers, but as an individual he is solid. Brave tackling and a decent boot and last year he counter attacked quite well. Goode offers a different game, but he is intelligent and brings others into play more. Plus Foden is quality. I am happy with any of these 3.

The future (post-2015, as its too soon now) centre combo will be;

12. Devoto
13. Tuilagi

You heard it here first...

Slammin Sam?

rodders wrote:Slammin Sam?

Almost certain he'll be a backrower.

dummy_half wrote:...Assuming everyone is fit, I'd expect to see a midfiled of Ford-Barritt-Tuillagi starting in Cardiff, with Burrell potentially coming in for Barritt later in the series. Eastmond perhaps to cover the threequarters from the bench (allowing Watson or May to be cover for 15).

Eastmond can't cover a back three position at international level. He kicking game isn't up to it. If you play that line-up and bench, then an injury to May or Watson would see Tuilagi move to wing. That's not ideal.

rugbyathletics1 wrote:The future (post-2015, as its too soon now) centre combo will be;

12. Devoto
13. Tuilagi

You heard it here first...

I seem remember people were calling for that last year (for this year), so you're not first I'm afraid

Injuries aside, Some consistency and a mix of strength and flair would be start. I'd like a Eastmond, Manu combi to start ideally. We've got some talent in the centres but I've zero confidence in Catt as coach to them...

I will go so far to say if Twelvetrees is our centre in the WC and his performances are no better than currently...then we aint going to win the WC.

Rugby Fan wrote:

dummy_half wrote:...Assuming everyone is fit, I'd expect to see a midfiled of Ford-Barritt-Tuillagi starting in Cardiff, with Burrell potentially coming in for Barritt later in the series. Eastmond perhaps to cover the threequarters from the bench (allowing Watson or May to be cover for 15).

Eastmond can't cover a back three position at international level. He kicking game isn't up to it. If you play that line-up and bench, then an injury to May or Watson would see Tuilagi move to wing. That's not ideal.

Because Manu has, in contrast, a great kicking game?

GeordieFalcon wrote:I will go so far to say if Twelvetrees is our centre in the WC and his performances are no better than currently...then we aint going to win the WC.

There are plenty of other reasons why we will not win the RWC than just 36.

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I will go so far to say if Twelvetrees is our centre in the WC and his performances are no better than currently...then we aint going to win the WC.

There are plenty of other reasons why we will not win the RWC than just 36.

15 of them play in black

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I will go so far to say if Twelvetrees is our centre in the WC and his performances are no better than currently...then we aint going to win the WC.

There are plenty of other reasons why we will not win the RWC than just 36.

Yes there is...but this thread is about centres...the biggest issue in the national team. I thus made the point about 36.

If Lancaster's only plan is to wait for Tuilagi, that isn't much of a plan, is it?  If he gets injured again, then what?

Stuart Lancaster, as reported in ESPN Scrum wrote:It was the final question of the last post-match press conference of the autumn series. "Stuart, if you could add one extra thing to your side, what would it be?"
"Manu," was Lancaster's response, referring to the Tigers centre who missed the four internationals through injury.

Lancaster did go on to qualify his statement.  But his knee-jerk reaction to the question does not breed confidence.

Get shot of Eastmond, he's simply not good enough.

Go with a pairing from: Twelvetrees, Burrell, Tuilagi
Backup of: Barritt, Joseph
Look to mould: Devoto

doctor_grey wrote:If Lancaster's only plan is to wait for Tuilagi, that isn't much of a plan, is it?  If he gets injured again, then what?

Stuart Lancaster, as reported in ESPN Scrum wrote:It was the final question of the last post-match press conference of the autumn series. "Stuart, if you could add one extra thing to your side, what would it be?"
"Manu," was Lancaster's response, referring to the Tigers centre who missed the four internationals through injury.

Lancaster did go on to qualify his statement.  But his knee-jerk reaction to the question does not breed confidence.

Agreed, the fact he didn't play a 13 through the AI's makes it pretty clear that there is little interest in looking beyond Manu (and Burrell too, but if both are fit its pretty obvious which would be picked).

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Get shot of Eastmond, he's simply not good enough.

Go with a pairing from: Twelvetrees, Burrell, Tuilagi
Backup of: Barritt, Joseph
Look to mould: Devoto

Fixed it Sgt

I think we now need to just settle on two bruising players...so for me:

12: Burrell or Barritt
13: Manu or Burrell

Look to see how Slade and the other youngsters go but i cant see them getting in the squad now.

If we go the way of of Burrell/Barritt/Tuilagi we'll also go back to Goode at full back. Then everyone will complain about Goode and Foden and Brown will be called for. We'll bring back a a more ball playing 12 and repeat. Same with the locks and back row. A player suddenly becomes better when not playing.

Nah he wont go for Goode.

10 Ford or Farrell
12 Barritt/ Burrell
13 Manu / Burrell.

I wouldnt be expecting anything other than those anymore.

SL’s right about Manu though. We’ve tried all the leading contenders at centre (with the possible exception of Joseph) and although they’ve all done a job, none of them have shone. Probably Burrell has shown the most promise, and Barritt is like a rock. Only Manu has shown that extra class, so clearly we desperately need him. And it allows SL to use different ICs for different jobs. The problem SL has is that Manu breaks all the time, so to build a back line around him is risky. I think some of our centre problems arise in losing both Manu and Burrell at the same time.

Lancaster will want a 12 such as Twelvetrees/Eastmond or a full back capable of standing in as second receiver. Throughout his tenure that's how he's done it and why Brown was positioned on the wing for so long. I personally don't see Barritt or Burrell as a player to do that so there'll have to be a change somewhere. I suppose the differnence here is what you would do against what will be done. If Twelvetrees is dropped I can only see a possible move to 12 for Slade, who I think is capable of playing 12 as he's a class act, but would be a bit of a risk seeing as he's only really played 10 or 13.

lostinwales wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

dummy_half wrote:...Assuming everyone is fit, I'd expect to see a midfiled of Ford-Barritt-Tuillagi starting in Cardiff, with Burrell potentially coming in for Barritt later in the series. Eastmond perhaps to cover the threequarters from the bench (allowing Watson or May to be cover for 15).

Eastmond can't cover a back three position at international level. He kicking game isn't up to it. If you play that line-up and bench, then an injury to May or Watson would see Tuilagi move to wing. That's not ideal.

Because Manu has, in contrast, a great kicking game?

Neither has a good kicking game, that's one reason why the selection is such a risk. Tuilagi would be less of a liability in defence on the wing, however, which is why it would better for him to move across.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lancaster will want a 12 such as Twelvetrees/Eastmond or a full back capable of standing in as second receiver. Throughout his tenure that's how he's done it and why Brown was positioned on the wing for so long. I personally don't see Barritt or Burrell as a player to do that so there'll have to be a change somewhere. I suppose the differnence here is what you would do against what will be done. If Twelvetrees is dropped I can only see a possible move to 12 for Slade, who I think is capable of playing 12 as he's a class act, but would be a bit of a risk seeing as he's only really played 10 or 13.

I agree that is Lancaster's ideal scenario, but as things stand can you really see him picking anyone but Barritt at 12 if Manu is nailed on at 13?

That raises the distributor at 15 question again, but we're one year from the World Cup that will define Lancaster's reign and he'll want consistency. Brown has been one of the few backs to put in a series of world class performances for him, so I'd imagine he'll stick with him unless there's a compelling case not to.

Manu is a special player, and sometimes special players cause as many problems as they solve, especially when they are out of action.

lostinwales wrote:Manu is a special player, and sometimes special players cause as many problems as they solve, especially when they are out of action.

True. See Peyton Manning for an extreme example. His absence for a year left the Indianapolis Colts so poor that they ended up with the top draft pick the next year. On his return they took the view that they were better off letting him go and using that pick on Andrew Luck, the new QB coming through. Essentially Manning's team's reliance on him ended up costing him his job.

In this case Manu is so effective that he's been masking our attacking failings for years, bar this Six Nations. When he's gone we realise what work still needs doing.

I suspect that it'll be Twelvetrees or Eastmond at 12. Can't see Barritt back in the team with everyone fit. He showed what he can do but also what he's limited to doing. he serves a purpose but personally I think he's a long way back in the queue for inside centre.

thomh wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Manu is a special player, and sometimes special players cause as many problems as they solve, especially when they are out of action.

True. See Peyton Manning for an extreme example. His absence for a year left the Indianapolis Colts so poor that they ended up with the top draft pick the next year. On his return they took the view that they were better off letting him go and using that pick on Andrew Luck, the new QB coming through. Essentially Manning's team's reliance on him ended up costing him his job.

In this case Manu is so effective that he's been masking our attacking failings for years, bar this Six Nations. When he's gone we realise what work still needs doing.

Peyton Manning does have a quick pass and is usually right on target. However, he is too old and slow to fill the slot at Inside Centre. Another problem would be teaching him how to speak proper English.