England Centres Vs Wales

Who would you rather see at centre for the Wales match?

Banahan/Tuilagi
Hape/Tindall
Flutey/Tindall

Or maybe an all Islanders midfield?
Hape/Tuilagi
Flutey/Tuilagi

Have a feeling that we'll see the usual Hape/Tindall combo unless Tindall's wedding celebrations are deemed too intense to consider him for selection, and then anything could happen. Banahan at 13? Simpson-Daniel?!!!

If I could pick, I'd go with Banahan/Tuilagi simply to see if anyone dies.

Surely you want Banahan at 12 to run into Gavin Henson constantly...

Pick who you like..

If there's an area of England's game that doesn't scare me at all then that's the centres.

Of the players you have listed above I don't rate a single one of them.

I think not rating Tuilagi is likely to turn out to be an error.

DaveM wrote:I think not rating Tuilagi is likely to turn out to be an error.

Nothing wrong with rating him he is a decent player but I think he could a liability he recently showed us all how easy it is to wind him up.
Some will say he has learned his lesson maybe he has until the next time.
But as the previous poster said he would not be top of the list of players we should be worried about in the England XV

Countnefarious wrote:Or maybe an all Islanders midfield?
Hape/Tuilagi
Flutey/Tuilagi

Bahahahahahan is an islander as well

I woul like to see Tualaghi-Flutety (I f flutey is fit)if not then hopefully Tualaghi-Sharples.......(If sharples as made the team that is)

I would like to see Banahan / Tuilagi, if for nothing else than seeing if they can perform, England will have to move on from Hape / Tindall in the near future and they have to know what the backup centre pairings can offer, if an injury hits one of either Hape or Tindall, then Banahan / Tuilagi may end up as their centre pairing in at least two games (assuming they progress past the group stages )

I'd go for Hape - Tuilagi. Hape is a solid, and actually quite decent player. He'll give Tuilagi a decent platform to work from.

flankertye wrote:I'd go for Hape - Tuilagi. Hape is a solid, and actually quite decent player. He'll give Tuilagi a decent platform to work from.

I saw a lot of footage of Banahan this season and I am really unconvinced by him. At international level he looked no better. Big lad but not much else going for him.

But it seems that many England fans see him as a decent solution.

wales606 wrote:Surely you want Banahan at 12 to run into Gavin Henson constantly...

I'm looking forward to that. Again and again and again.

nottins wrote:

wales606 wrote:Surely you want Banahan at 12 to run into Gavin Henson constantly...

I'm looking forward to that. Again and again and again.

The way that Banahan was completely nullified by the not so famous defender D'Arcy in his last cap, I dont think anyone is worried about Banahan running at them

Allen/Tuilagi
Barritt/Tuilagi

Wait a minute....are you telling me MJ has not picked the 2 best inside centres in England for the England squad?

No? Oh if that's the case...erm... who cares who plays at inside centre.

maestegmafia wrote:]The way that Banahan was completely nullified by the not so famous defender D'Arcy in his last cap, I dont think anyone is worried about Banahan running at them

I think you'll find that D'arcy and O'Driscoll are one of the best defensive combinations in the game. That said I think Banahan would be a bit silly to run straight at Henson who is one of the best defenders around (..when fit ).

Wait a minute....are you telling me MJ has not picked the 2 best inside centres in England for the England squad?

No? Oh if that's the case...erm... who cares who plays at inside centre

It is somewhat bloody irritating but at the same time I still care. Maybe Wilko will get a game there I dunno. Hope Flutey comes out of his slump otherwise the increasingly incompetent Hape will be given another cap (going from pretty good against Wales he's been rubbish ever since).

Come on Manu!

roddersm wrote:That said I think Banahan would be a bit silly to run straight at Henson who is one of the best defenders around (..when fit ).

Fitness isn't his problem, he always seems fit, its lack of game time... It really shows how much rehabilitation a player needs even a previously talented player like Henson, effectively missing two years of Rugby and stepping up to top rugby in so little time.

Its similar, though for different reasons to Jonny Wilkinsons injury wrecked career, I think he had pretty much two years out pre Lions in 2005 and was in a similar situation to Henson now.

Sam the problem is you either pick an injured woefully out of form player in Flutey, an overrated journeyman (Hape) or a big lump who has only had 2 games at inside centre - Banahan.

I don't really care as they are all poor choices.

Henson is massively overrated and a waste of space. Wales should pick Davies and Roberts. Push away Henson with a large sharp spear.

England have spent years playing 'despite' their centres. Personally I'd pick Tuilagi. Everybody knows what Tindall can and can't do, so aside from building a bit of continuity what is the point of picking him?

Will there be any better time to pick him than in a low(ish) pressure match, at home, surrounded by experienced first teamers?

I think Johnson will stick with Hape and Tindall at centre. England's worst performance in the 6N, against Ireland, was when Tindall was out injured. And it wasn't the centre partnership that lost us that game – it was the pack.

He probably sees the partnership as a safe option. England have played very well with the two of them on the pitch, even if they've never really seemed to excel as individuals.

Personally I'd like to see something different. (Allen-Tindall) maybe. I think the lack of someone who can spread the ball at 12 or 13 puts a lot of pressure on Flood and when teams can get to him it ruins England's gameplan.

Outside centre isn't the problem.

It is simply experience (Tindall) vs form and youth (Manu) - either would be fine.

It's the inside centre problem. No I don't think Wilkinson or Flood should be picked there.

The problem will persist unless injuries lead to one of the best inside centres in the country to be called up.

I understand that inside centre is the problem but I'm looking at things from a practical point of view. There is a palatable choice to be debated at outside centre, there isn't really one at inside centre. There is going to be a choice of DJ Shape, Flutey or Banahan and I'd prefer not to think about it to be honest.

[quote="maestegmafia"]

roddersm wrote:That said I think Banahan would be a bit silly to run straight at Henson who is one of the best defenders around (..when fit ).

Fitness isn't his problem, he always seems fit, its lack of game time... It really shows how much rehabilitation a player needs even a previously talented player like Henson, effectively missing two years of Rugby and stepping up to top rugby in so little time.

Matt Stevens seems to have managed a 2 year turn around! Although he did have some decent game time with Sarries at the tail end of the domestic season.

maestegmafia wrote:

flankertye wrote:I'd go for Hape - Tuilagi. Hape is a solid, and actually quite decent player. He'll give Tuilagi a decent platform to work from.

I saw a lot of footage of Banahan this season and I am really unconvinced by him. At international level he looked no better. Big lad but not much else going for him.

But it seems that many England fans see him as a decent solution.

Can I ask why you brought up Banahan when I didn't mention him? I rate him, on the wing and perhaps as an OC. Hape is vital for the way England are playing. He's never going to be the worlds best 12, he does what he does. Tackle and offload. It works for England.

flankertye wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

flankertye wrote:I'd go for Hape - Tuilagi. Hape is a solid, and actually quite decent player. He'll give Tuilagi a decent platform to work from.

I saw a lot of footage of Banahan this season and I am really unconvinced by him. At international level he looked no better. Big lad but not much else going for him.

But it seems that many England fans see him as a decent solution.

Can I ask why you brought up Banahan when I didn't mention him? I rate him, on the wing and perhaps as an OC. Hape is vital for the way England are playing. He's never going to be the worlds best 12, he does what he does. Tackle and offload. It works for England.

Apologies Flankertyre

I meant to quote the post above yours...

G2 wrote:I would like to see Banahan / Tuilagi, if for nothing else than seeing if they can perform, England will have to move on from Hape / Tindall in the near future and they have to know what the backup centre pairings can offer, if an injury hits one of either Hape or Tindall, then Banahan / Tuilagi may end up as their centre pairing in at least two games (assuming they progress past the group stages )

Tackle and offload. It works for England.

Except when he insists on standing wide leaving his half backs isolated and giving the opportunity to rush the 9/10 channel and force slow ball to the outside backs. See the Irish game for a lesson in how not to position yourself whilst playing 12. I can't remember a more frustrating performance, if I was Flood I would have hit him.

Wasn't it Davies of Wales who easily got past Hape and scored a try in the recent 6 nations?

I am surprised such a mediocre inside centre like Hape has loyal supporters. Suppose there are quite a few Payne,Haskell,Fourie,Waldrom, Flutey fans too.

New England slogan should be - "Mediocrity is the best we can be".

Ahhh ok G2!
Then flood or a senior member of the team should have had a word with him, step up and take charge.

flankertye wrote:Ahhh ok G2!
Then flood or a senior member of the team should have had a word with him, step up and take charge.

I dont think that happens enough in international rugby. Due to the masses of analysis done by the management team and coaches i dont think players are anywhere as aware of what is happening and why it is happening in a game these days.

Often hear people say, "why didnt they revert to a plan B" then presume they didnt have one, when I think quite often that players dont know when to implement different tactics or re arrange defences to suit their opponents.

Hmmmm true. I'd argue that it is the mark of a great player, and a great captain to be able to recognise this. After all, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

To true...!

Martin johnson was exceptionally good at this, the All Blacks seem to always be good at it to...

It is the biggest flaw in Stephen Jones book, no matter how experienced he has become he can't read matches well enough to ever become a true legend. Even Jenks was better.

It will be good to have two English centres not mercenaries that are not good enough for their Countries or don't pay as much.

glamorganalun wrote:It will be good to have two English centres not mercenaries that are not good enough for their Countries or don't pay as much.

Why does it always have to come back to this?

[quote="propdavid_london"]

maestegmafia wrote:

roddersm wrote:That said I think Banahan would be a bit silly to run straight at Henson who is one of the best defenders around (..when fit ).

Fitness isn't his problem, he always seems fit, its lack of game time... It really shows how much rehabilitation a player needs even a previously talented player like Henson, effectively missing two years of Rugby and stepping up to top rugby in so little time.

Matt Stevens seems to have managed a 2 year turn around! Although he did have some decent game time with Sarries at the tail end of the domestic season.

Rather unfortunately picked up an achillies injury that certainly became the achillies heel to his rehabilitation into the game, still some nice moments for Toulon and so on... A few months down the line now and hopefully all will come good.

I'd like the team to be this for the first test:

Sheridan
Hartley
Stevens
Botha
Palmer
Croft
Moody
Haskell
Simpson
Wilkinson
Cueto
Flutey
Tuilangi
Ashton
Foden

and this for the second:

Corbisiero
Thompson
Cole
Shaw
Lawes
Robshaw
Fourie
Easter
Youngs
Flood
Monye
Hape
Tindall
Sharples
Armitage

"Matt Stevens seems to have managed a 2 year turn around! Although he did have some decent game time with Sarries at the tail end of the domestic season.."

The big difference here is that Matt Stevens was busy mastering jiu-jitsu during his time out of the game while Henson was preoccupied with his dedication to prancing around in a leotard. I know, I know! Those dancers are really strong!

glamorganalun wrote:It will be good to have two English centres not mercenaries that are not good enough for their Countries or don't pay as much.

It's kind of impossible. Most of the England fans on 606 and the English management are infatuated by Riki Flutey and Shontayne Hape. I don't know why though.

The two best inside centres in England are twiddling their thumbs.

Would you Welsh pick Henson?

Tacklebag, no place for Louis Deacon? Tad harsh since he occupies the shirt following a fine 6N (during which he was carrying an injury).

It's kind of impossible. Most of the England fans on 606 and the English management are infatuated by Riki Flutey and Shontayne Hape. I don't know why though.

I don't think they are it's more they are resigned to their inclusion, Johnno was never going to cut both from the squad. Interesting how you moan about Waldrom being a mercenary but there's never a mention of the Saffa born Barritt being anything other than English.

Sam Barritt has an English mother. He holds a UK passport.

He didn't have to scrabble through his family records to look for an English relative.

Barritt came to England when he was 21 unlike Waldrom. He has been in England since 2008.

He isn't a journeyman he could have had a promising career in South Africa if he had stayed there.

Just because not everyone whines constantly about the squad doesn't mean they're infatuated with the centres.

BTW What do you mean by journeyman? Do you mean the proper term or the one made up by football commentators who didn't understand the term?

I don't recall being banned, still its nice to be back anyway to see that some things havent changed.

The two best inside centres in England are only the best in your opinion, they may even get their chance one day. But do stop going on about it please, you're infatuated with the issue.

Great White yes in my opinion. Also the two centres who have been in two AP finals in two years. Winning one each.

It's an important issue but I have said enough. It's like talking to brick walls. I have said enough. I don't think you and I will ever agree.


Hammerofthunor definitions below

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/journeyman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman_(sports)

Basically he is a solid but unspectacular player. Good enough at club level but not good enough for England.

Who would you pick at inside centre?

This is a forum about discussing things. If we all agreed all the time wouldn't it be boring?

beshocked wrote:

The two best inside centres in England are twiddling their thumbs.

Which two ?

I'd keep Hape as he's played with the team over the last year or so (and like it or not he was a key member of the side that beat Australia home and away and won the 6 nations).

After that it depends on the squad dynamic. Personally I would have tried Allen or Barritt depending on how I thought they fit with the other players.

However as I've said in the past, I understand why we've gone for players who have already been in the set up. What with a 'new' half back paring and new back three. And I certainly don't think that it's the end of the world and rubbish squad.

Both Allen and Barritt are journeymen (good club players) until they prove themselves at the next level. They may never get the chance, which would be a shame.

robbo there are gaping holes yet no one sees them...

Where is the hole on the wing? I actually think that is one of our strongest positions in depth.

Toadfish how can you know how good either are at international level if neither of them get picked?

I get riled up as I am a very passionate rugby supporter and I want the best players available to be picked for the teams I support so they actually win. I am constantly frustated by the inept English management.

There is obviously a massive hole at inside centre yet no one has the balls to try out new options. These warm ups are the perfect opportunity.

Actually the perfect opportunity is to take someone you want a better look at on an extended tour and try them out in some of the midweek games. Then if they succeed there you can look to bring them in to a full international off the bench or starting.

Truth is Barritt got called up a year ago and hasn't progressed. We don't have the full story why, but it's not like he's being completely ignored.

I've said before I would have had 3 inside centres in the squad and picked Allen, as I agree with Sharples being taken as an "extra" winger. In this case, Sharples has proved himself over Simpson-Daniel and Strettle and while I think Allen should have been given a similar shot, there isn't room for every decent Aviva Premiership player. However, if I were to pick just 2 inside centres, I don't think there's all that much between Flutey, Hape, Allen and Barritt, and wouldn't quibble too much with Johnson's selections.

Fair enough robbo if you feel that way. We'll have to agree to disagree. I think I have definitely have said more than my fair share on this subject.

beshocked wrote:Allen/Tuilagi
Barritt/Tuilagi

Wait a minute....are you telling me MJ has not picked the 2 best inside centres in England for the England squad?

No? Oh if that's the case...erm... who cares who plays at inside centre.

Your getting a bit boring now, please stop.


What part of "Behave!" slipped past you Nathan?

-KRD


FAO KRD: I've tried to PM you but can't find your username. Wasn't trying to misbehave, just getting a little boring reading the same thing over and over again. Can i also give you a tip, when your trying to diffuse a situation be careful on how you word things, your above comment came across with a pretty bad attitude.

I did Nathan....I have had my say about the centres for now...

beshocked wrote:Fair enough robbo if you feel that way. We'll have to agree to disagree. I think I have definitely have said more than my fair share on this subject.

Cool, we'll call it a truce. We're not going to be able to change each other's minds. Good debate though!