How many Welsh players have played themselves out of the Lions?

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After last years 6 Nations the concensus was the Lions was be made up predominantly of Welsh and Irish players. Athough Wales won the the slam, I think many of their players and their team in general was overrated. They beat the other 6 nations teams, but were by no means dominant against them. Fast forward less than a year and things have turned around completely. Ireland have probably remained treading water, although they will probably argue that blooding a few new prospects will benefit them overall, Scotland can only be disappointed with where they are and Wales have been regressing at an alarming rate. Couple that with England producing a couple of good displays against S.A and Australia (lets not get into the decision making) plus a hugley impressive win against a 20 match unbeaten AB side and has the Lions team changed shape? The 6N will undoubtadly bring more drama, but as things are now, how many Welsh players make the Lions 15? And should England now have a few more facs in there?

The All Black job is at least 3 years off, though. In the meantime, he has to look to maintain the reputation he's achieved with Wales. The Lions will be half-forgotten in three years.

No-one has played themselves into or out of the squad yet, although it is fair to say that some (Priestland for one) have moved down the pecking order during the AIs, while others (1/2p, JD2 based on one match) have enhanced their reputations.

Also, Lydiate for one has had his reputation enhanced by his absence - both because he is not implicated in the poor play of the Autumn and also (even moreso) because his absence has shown how important his physicality at the breakdown and in the tackle is to Wales.

Obviously, quite a lot of Welsh players will go as part of the Lions squad - just how many, and how many will be in the first choice XV, will depend on results, form and fitness following the 6Ns.

Hopefully Gatland is smart enough as a coach to have learned from SCW the perils of playing favourites with the Lions - pick the best players available on current form, not those who served you well a couple of years ago.

Priestland would need a miracle change of fortunes to get into the squad on merit and not favourtism.

You can't have a 10 who lacks confidence, he is the main man, the playmaker and needs to have full belief in his and his teams abilities.

Its no good saying, he played a great game for 70 mins.... you just see his head go down all the time... its like Charlie Hodgson... good enough for the premiership.... but doesn't have the right mentality for test rugby.

Wales should get rid of him fast.... before he does some real damage to your fortunes.

I reckon Hook was your answer to your troubles at 10. He was masterful against England in the 6N in 2008 when he almost single handedly beat England at Twickenham.

I reckon Priestland is living off his performances in the RWC 2011, had Biggar not been smashed against Samoa I can't think he would have retained his place. Is Steven Shingler worth a punt if Gatland can forgive him for the Scotland debacle?

As for Welsh Lions I think Gethin Jenkins has not done much to enhance his cause.

I would also hate to see Mathew Rees' toilet back home. If his lineout accuracy is anything to go by it won't be a pretty sight.

Adam Jones is another who will have to get fit pronto if he wants to tour. We have some very capable tightheads in England and Scotland who will be in front of him if he can't get some game time soon.

I think Charteris will tour if he can remain injury free.

Ryan Jones I think will also tour, as will Faletau. Phillips will probably go (but I think he is a Mr Winklechops and he is a very sub standard scrum half in comparison to Laidlaw, Cusiter, Youngs, Care and Murray). I reckon Williams will have a shot at touring too... ( at least I think it was Williams, that winger with the Scrum cap).

Certainties : North, Roberts, JD2, Halfpenny (Halfpenny being Wales best player by a massive distance).

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I reckon Hook was your answer to your troubles at 10. He was masterful against England in the 6N in 2008 when he almost single handedly beat England at Twickenham.

I reckon Priestland is living off his performances in the RWC 2011, had Biggar not been smashed against Samoa I can't think he would have retained his place. Is Steven Shingler worth a punt if Gatland can forgive him for the Scotland debacle?

As for Welsh Lions I think Gethin Jenkins has not done much to enhance his cause.

I would also hate to see Mathew Rees' toilet back home. If his lineout accuracy is anything to go by it won't be a pretty sight.

Adam Jones is another who will have to get fit pronto if he wants to tour. We have some very capable tightheads in England and Scotland who will be in front of him if he can't get some game time soon.

I think Charteris will tour if he can remain injury free.

Ryan Jones I think will also tour, as will Faletau. Phillips will probably go (but I think he is a Mr Winklechops and he is a very sub standard scrum half in comparison to Laidlaw, Cusiter, Youngs, Care and Murray). I reckon Williams will have a shot at touring too... ( at least I think it was Williams, that winger with the Scrum cap).

Certainties : North, Roberts, JD2, Halfpenny (Halfpenny being Wales best player by a massive distance).

got to love 606v2's automatic sensoring

Always a safe bet to say that Williams and Jones will tour.

Halfpenny is the only back 3 player who wears a scrum cap. The other winger was Liam Williams.

Morgannwg wrote:Halfpenny is the only back 3 player who wears a scrum cap. The other winger was Liam Williams.

Thats the chap. Your right he doesn't wear a scrum cap but he has a weird gum shield. He has demonstated a willingness to tackle. Something Bowe, Visser and Ashton (lions favourites) don't seem very keen on.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Always a safe bet to say that Williams and Jones will tour.

Yup - at least one of them has been on every tour since WW2. Can't see the sequence being broken for a long time.

Morgannwg wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Re: How many Welsh players have played themselves out of the Lions?

Emmmmmm I think alot of people on these boards seem to for get who the head coach of the Lions is.

Dont worry your selves, Warren Gatland will make sure Wales will be well represented. That's for sure.

I wouldn't worry about that, it is unlikely that Gatland will be as big a dumbas as Woodwood was in 2005 when he took Dad's Army to NZ. Gats will do his job, and in the process set Wales back 2 years (as it is clear from the Autumn that we have too many players with fragile temperaments and hollow man confidence), and probably go back to NZ in a classic Welsh sack the coach just before a WC situation. But hey what does Gatland care as long as his CV looks good with winning Lions coach on it. We will then crash out of the WC ETC.

So don't sweat its all good for England

majesticimperialman wrote:Risca Rev.

Like you say he (Gatland ) is gunning for an All Black Job.

How does this 7 is it losing streak for Wales look on his C.V.

Has it done his chances of getting an All Black job any damage?

Or will his time being Head Coach of Wales national team have done his chances good?

Is that meant to be your attempt to justify why you think Wales will be unfairly represented? I'm confused. How much of this 7 game losing streak is technically his anyway? I make it two that you could definitely pin on him and five for Howley.

Like I say, you can't complain about what he is/isn't going to select yet. Don't keep worrying yourself, or it'll be a long six months for you. I only have your best interests at heart.

Honestly the less welsh players that go the better in some ways. Sadly I think North, Halfpenny, JD, Charteris, and Warburton are nailed on to the squad.

Gethin wont go I dont think, Adam may be struggling as will Lydiate. Faletau is in a difficult position to get selected. Phillips will be lucky to get on the plane and Priestland shouldnt be anywhere near. Roberts is another who will need to find some form as well. I cant see Hook being selected either. Cuthbert may get a shout but needs to work on his defence. Henson is an outside bet to go as Gatland is a known admirer and one of the few coaches who can get the best out of him.

If we can get away with only six or so players on the tour and the rest getting some time off and a proper preseason it would be a good result for us. At the moment Im not sure any welsh players would get into the first team for the lions.

Tycroes,

On current form I would say only Halfpenny and JD would be close to a starting spot and I have stated before that I do like the sound of a JD and Tuilagi centre pairing

i would say that no-one has a guaranteed place on the tour, not at this stage. closest to that would be halfpenny and sexton. i don't think you can guarantee any of the others to be going.

doctornickolas wrote:Well some fair comments but there is a long way to go.

Some may have played themselves out (like Priestland hopefully) but most are still in with a shout.

Wales have suffered with some serious injuries and maybe lack of depth has been exposed. But how many sides other than those with large player pools like England and France could have done any better when you are in to your 4th choice tighthead, all 4 locks in the squad get injured, your hooker, and several blindsides.

I think Ireland, Scotland, Australia would all have suffered with those sort of problems.

But as far as Lions then the pendulum has indeed swung towards England after this series. I expect Cole, Corbisiero, Hartley, Tuilagi, Foden, Ashton, Flood, Care/Youngs and a few others to all be a part of the Lions.

England beat NZ which is an incredible feat and they deserve to be on everyones radar but lets not forget rugby fortunes can change very quickly. In their two previous matches England were quite poor losing at home to understrength SA and Oz teams which isnt much to boast about really.

Lions need current players who remember what it is like to beat Australia.

gregortree wrote:Lions need current players who remember what it is like to beat Australia.

The Scots and the Irish so as they were the last NH teams to beat Australia.

good... bring them in too

Isn't this going to be a nightmare for Gatland and Wales come the completion of the lions tour.

With Gatland away I'm not confident Wales will come any better than 4th in the 6N and will be lucky to get 10 players on the tour..

Thinking A. Jones, Charteris, Lydiate, Wartburton, Phillips, JD2, North, Halfpenny as decent odds, the rest I think its going to be touch & go/no chance.

When he comes back how is Gatland going to deal with his players... "sorry only 10 of you were good enough to be amongst the best 40 odd players in the home nations last summer... but I have belief in you, I'm going to take you to world cup glory etc etc".

Seems the job and the honour is a bit of a poisoned chalice.

I suppose its why scottish lions coaches work better - nobody expects a mass of scots to travel (I am sure its a quality over quantity thing...)

We had the same trouble with Henry and how the hell the WRU thought it would be better this time round by letting Gatland goes god only knows.

bedfordwelsh wrote:We had the same trouble with Henry and how the hell the WRU thought it would be better this time round by letting Gatland goes god only knows.

I think it was succession planning when Gats goes post WC. Howley may come good? He has been very unlucky with injuries.
I wonder if Howley will be picked for the Lions coaching team. Lewis appears to be confident he will. Also Wales cancelled the Japan tour presumably to accommodate this?

The real issue is what were the WRIU thinmking begging him to stay and falling over themselves to give him a new contrarct with all the demands attached even though he had made it clear he wasnt entirely commited to the job long term.
Of course had he been let go then everyone would now be blaming the current slump on that decision.
Maybe for his own reputation he wouldve been better jumping ship post world cup and chasing Robbie Deans job as a spring board to the one he wants.

As it is the Lions is being led by the only candidate who seemed realistic at the time the decision was made, and the WRU were in no psoition to stop him.

We can blame Wales' slump on that, but it may not be true that the two are directly linked. Is this any worse than their 2010 form when they had a run of : won 2 (narrow home win over samoa, home to italy) and drew 1 lost 11 from 14 games
He was there then.
This time they have the excuse of being forced into playing the B team and a world cup hangover. They arent this bad a squad, just as they werent always going to be that good a side that had the world cup run and grand slam. Their average form is somewhere between the two.
This is par for the course for Wales under Gatland (and pre Gatalnd) , its a roller coaster of good and poor spells.

Trev,

If Howley goes then god help the Lions, if he does goes I wish the WRU would let him go now as well then we might have someone decent in for the 6 Nations.

Because with Holwer in charge I see us finishing no better than fourth and thats being optimistic with us having Scotland and Italy away.

Has the Japan tour really been cancelled, I haven't read that anywhere

bedfordwelsh wrote:Trev,

If Howley goes then god help the Lions, if he does goes I wish the WRU would let him go now as well then we might have someone decent in for the 6 Nations.

Because with Holwer in charge I see us finishing no better than fourth and thats being optimistic with us having Scotland and Italy away.

Has the Japan tour really been cancelled, I haven't read that anywhere

Yes apologies I must have dreamt that! I think the WRU said they would accommodate Howley if he was selected for the Lions tour. Mcbride & Jenkins to take the reins if necessary.

That seems more understandable after all I guess there must contractual agreements if tour already sorted.

I have written a letter to the WRU this morning, after an AI any of us could've acheived I have formally offered my services to lead Wales through the 6N...

I am willing to bet my house I can do a better job than Howley!!!

personally I think Howley achieved a hell of a lot... managing to turn around one of the best run and in form sides in the world to serial losers with worse morale than a turkey at christmas takes considerable effort.

fa0019 wrote:personally I think Howley achieved a hell of a lot... managing to turn around one of the best run and in form sides in the world to serial losers with worse morale than a turkey at christmas takes considerable effort.