Munster vs Ulster

First topic message reminder :

Just starting a thread for discussion of the game at Thomond Park on Saturday night. Will add teams as they are announced.

Scarlets defeat at the hands of the Os has given Ulster some breathing room in 1st place- that fact, combined with the fact that there is an Ireland training camp in Kildare this week past and Ulster have three must win games in January (Scarlets, Glasgow and Castres) means that Ulster are resting a large number of key players.

Ulster XV & replacements to face Munster, RaboDirect PRO12, Thomond Park, Sat 29th December, 5.30pm:
(15-9): A D'Arcy, C Cochrane, M Allen, L Marshall, C Gilroy; N O'Connor, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, A Macklin, L Stevenson, N McComb, R Diack, M McComish, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): N Annett, R Lutton, T Court, A O'Connor, A Birch, M Heaney, S Olding, R Andrew.

Still, from an Ulster PoV we'll still get to track the progress of some of the exciting young talent we have breaking through like Luke Marshall and Craig Gilroy. It also provides an opportunity for guys on the fringes of the first team like Adam Macklin, Neil McComb, Mike McComish, Michael Allen and Adam D'Arcy a chance to stake their claim for the important games ahead.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett capt, C Laulala, J Downey, S Zebo; I Keatley, C Murray; W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D O'Callaghan, B Holland; P O'Mahony, T O'Donnell, P Butler.

Replacements: M Sherry, M Horan, S Archer, Dave O'Callaghan, J Coughlan, P Stringer, R O'Gara, F Jones.

Good Munster team. Delighted with that- we'll learn a lot about our reserves.

Luke Marshall that was an unreal tackle!!!!
He needed to make up for that last effort. Penalty won. Good lad.

Val - wasn't that The Bull sat next to him in the specs?

Notch wrote:

valjester wrote:Murray has played very well in pretty much every game since his disaster in Paris.

This is true, he was going to get the Ireland 9 shirt whatever happens but this time he's earned it. Finally delivering on that potential.

You mean the Racing game right?

Do you remember POC's initial injury that kept him out for over a year about 18 months ago? He got injected into the pelvic bone according to someone who works in the CUH, it's weak and brittle. He is pretty lucky to be still playing. He is one the downslide though won't be lasting much longer if he does comeback

56' 11"
Munster try "The Leinster"

Seriously has TOD spent the last few months on steroids, he is a completely different player.

Munster's backplay hasn't been incredible for the majority of this game but if you compare what it was like with Keatley there and with ROG the contrast is quite frightening, and we weren't stellar with Keatley!

Cari wrote:Val - wasn't that The Bull sat next to him in the specs?

Yes, and Dowling to his right.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Notch wrote:

valjester wrote:Murray has played very well in pretty much every game since his disaster in Paris.

This is true, he was going to get the Ireland 9 shirt whatever happens but this time he's earned it. Finally delivering on that potential.

You mean the Racing game right?

Yes. Since then he seems to have finally grown up a bit and not bothered deferring to Rog so much. Of the two halfbacks he is happy to be the boss and control the game more which is good for Munster, as Rog is shot.

POM is definitely the pack leader tonight anyway. Varley has been absolute garbage tonight.

Good to see the Academy lads getting this test. We're going to learn a lot about them here!

Why's NOC been taken off?

Should Nigel Owens be talking to O'Mahony instead of Howlett on the forwards discipline? Yes POM is pack leader (although DOC just had a word there as well) but captain obviously is more important and is the guy who traditionally communicates with the ref

Notch wrote:Good to see the Academy lads getting this test. We're going to learn a lot about them here!

Annett looks to have bulked up a bit. He has a lot of potential, will be an excellent successor to Best if he can deliver on it.

valjester wrote:POM is definitely the pack leader tonight anyway. Varley has been absolute garbage tonight.

Varley has been shoite this year. A penalty machine, ridiculously ill-disciplined, if he is up for renewal I probably wound't sign him. Not great in the loose and his throwing is dodgy (a crooked one called tonight and one or two others that should have been called. This and scrum feeds need to be looked at)

Notch wrote:Good to see the Academy lads getting this test. We're going to learn a lot about them here!

Id say Olding will be ahead of NOC whitin the next season or 2

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Should Nigel Owens be talking to O'Mahony instead of Howlett on the forwards discipline? Yes POM is pack leader (although DOC just had a word there as well) but captain obviously is more important and is the guy who traditionally communicates with the ref

Its Rolland who is reffing, and personally, if its an issue with the forwards it best he talks to the man in charge of them.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Should Nigel Owens be talking to O'Mahony instead of Howlett on the forwards discipline? Yes POM is pack leader (although DOC just had a word there as well) but captain obviously is more important and is the guy who traditionally communicates with the ref

No because Alain Rolland is the ref

Cari wrote:Why's NOC been taken off?

I just think to give Olding the gametime.

[quote="neilthom7"]

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Should Nigel Owens be talking to O'Mahony instead of Howlett on the forwards discipline? Yes POM is pack leader (although DOC just had a word there as well) but captain obviously is more important and is the guy who traditionally communicates with the ref

No because Alain Rolland is the ref[/quote



Nigel's used to talking on the phone at rugby games involving Munster at home!

Thomond wrote:

valjester wrote:POM is definitely the pack leader tonight anyway. Varley has been absolute garbage tonight.

Varley has been shoite this year. A penalty machine, ridiculously ill-disciplined, if he is up for renewal I probably wound't sign him. Not great in the loose and his throwing is dodgy (a crooked one called tonight and one or two others that should have been called. This and scrum feeds need to be looked at)

Especially as you have some very talented young players in the province, in Rael and Scannell.

With Horan and Archer in the Munster scrum if we don't get a penalty from every scrum something is wrong.

They love kicking the ball away in good positions do Munster. Must admit- I don't understand it. It's quite a low percentage option.

Are the tough judges blind? First one doesn't give the scrum back from where the kick was taken, and then the other gives Munster the lineout despite them kicking it in to touch.

Ahh, who was on Birchs shoulder? Come on lads.

Will Jim Neilly call every ROG kick clever, regardless of execution or result?

Notch wrote:They love kicking the ball away in good positions do Munster. Must admit- I don't understand it. It's quite a low percentage option.

ROG to the rescue.

neilthom7 wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Should Nigel Owens be talking to O'Mahony instead of Howlett on the forwards discipline? Yes POM is pack leader (although DOC just had a word there as well) but captain obviously is more important and is the guy who traditionally communicates with the ref

No because Alain Rolland is the ref

Touché!!!

Great tackle by Marshall again.

What do the Munster lads think of Felix Jones since he has come back?

Thanks Notch. At least he's not injured.

Come on Ulster - give us something!

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:They love kicking the ball away in good positions do Munster. Must admit- I don't understand it. It's quite a low percentage option.

ROG to the rescue.

And now we seem to be doing the same.

We've done alright in this game bar 20 minutes were we fell apart. Paul Marshall let us down badly with that sin binning.

He is suprisingly quick to Birch I remember my first game at Uni he made the break and I didn't realise how quick he was until he got away and I had to full out sprint to catch up

Notch wrote:They love kicking the ball away in good positions do Munster. Must admit- I don't understand it. It's quite a low percentage option.

Dougie has put in a bizarre one but you know ROG is game to do one or two of those. Nobody understands why ROG is picked either, but sure ask the IRFU, no way is Penney behind it in my opinion, doesn't make sense!




He has been pretty good Pete, still runs with that stupid gait that will get him injured, head going all over the shop. He has made some decent breaks kicking okay as has his fielding, should get the 15 shirt soon if he keeps it up.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Should Nigel Owens be talking to O'Mahony instead of Howlett on the forwards discipline? Yes POM is pack leader (although DOC just had a word there as well) but captain obviously is more important and is the guy who traditionally communicates with the ref

No because Alain Rolland is the ref

Touché!!!

Great tackle by Marshall again.

What do the Munster lads think of Felix Jones since he has come back?

Not a Munster fan, but although he is much better than the alternative Hurley, he still has a lot to learn and his game hasn't been as sharp since he came back. Will need to improve rapidly especially if LOD continues to improve, and/or, Zebo moves back there permanently.

Marshall carrying 3 Munster backs still going forward...........

Of all the players on the pitch, the first one to go down injured is the only definite first choice! Hope Gilroy is alright, right to take the precaution.

I think I need to do a bit more research into the Ulster setup a fair few lads off the bench I haven't a clue who they are!

Horan is appalling, no attempt whatsoever to bind.

Donncha O'Callaghan is such a wee bollox.

Annett's throwing technique is really beautiful, very like Flannery.

Thomond and Val,

Do you not feel he is making less breaks than he used to? He looks less elusive and seems to know it too as he is kicking more often now too

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Thomond and Val,

Do you not feel he is making less breaks than he used to? He looks less elusive and seems to know it too as he is kicking more often now too

He is still feeling his way back into the game so I wouldn't mind him not making that many breaks. His problem still is his positioning, which is very poor for a fullback, he needs to work on that because he has been using his pace to make up for it but he won't get away with that all the time.

He has made one or two decent ones, he could win back the jersey as Munster's options aren't great there. He does play a bit scared, not surprising given his injures at such a young age. Doing alright could improve and I expect him to, a long way off Ireland though. Needs to work on a fair few things.



Archer has done alright since coming on surprisingly. Val, Annett has a great throw also seems to have a very good connection with his jumpers their timing is superb, as you say Flannery like.

Niall Annetts lineout throwing is one of the main positives we can take out of this second half.

I wouldn't mind seeing Earls or Zebo at 15 and bringing in LLL or LOD myself as to be it seems that he is not playing even close to 100%, how many games has he had since coming back?

What happened to Varley? For a while he looked like he would be challenging for the Irish jersey, but he has been very poor today.

Murray for MotM please

TOD gets it, not a bad shout really

and experiance for some of the younger guys, Birch has looked decent since he came on too

Thomond wrote:He has made one or two decent ones, he could win back the jersey as Munster's options aren't great there. He does play a bit scared, not surprising given his injures at such a young age. Doing alright could improve and I expect him to, a long way off Ireland though. Needs to work on a fair few things.



Archer has done alright since coming on surprisingly. Val, Annett has a great throw also seems to have a very good connection with his jumpers their timing is superb, as you say Flannery like.

If he is a bit scared that is a worry.

On Annett see that awful throw from Varley and compare the difference. Annett throw the ball as if though its a dart, in one nice fluid motion. Varley on the other hand lobs the ball with a nice few stutters thrown in.


Bringing Rog on has completely robbed Munster of any momentum they had and stopped them getting the bonus point.

He'll hopefully get more gametime- if he doesn't get gametime I think Munster should look at him! Varley is very poor.

Hopefully he'll stay up here though, Brady is nearly done.

TOD gets it, not a bad shout really