Saracens vs Edinburgh - Heineken Cup Round 6.

by beshocked Fri 18 Jan 2013, 12:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

Saracens vs Edinburgh

15 Chris Wyles
14 Chris Ashton
13 Owen Farrell
12 Brad Barritt
11 David Strettle
10 Charlie Hodgson
9 Richard Wigglesworth
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Schalk Brits
3 Matt Stevens
4 Steve Borthwick ©
5 George Kruis
6 Kelly Brown
7 Will Fraser
8 Ernst Joubert

16 John Smit
17 Rhys Gill
18 Petrus du Plessis
19 Mouritz Botha
20 Nick Fenton-Wells
21 Neil de Kock
22 Joel Tomkins
23 Duncan Taylor

Unfortunately Saracens have carried on the foolish and ineffectual experiment of Farrell at 13. Goode misses out again due to injury. Good to see Hodgson,Vunipola and Kruis all come in though.

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/edinburgh-news/4636-one-change-for-sarries-cup-clash

Edinburgh Rugby team v Saracens, Heineken Cup Round 6
Vicarage Road, Sunday 20 January (KO 12.45pm)

15 Greig Tonks

14 Dougie Fife
13 Ben Cairns
12 Matt Scott
11 Tim Visser  

10 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN 
9 Richie Rees  

1 Robin Hislop
2 Steven Lawrie 
3 Willem Nel
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Sean Cox
6 Stuart McInally
7 Dimitri Basilaia
8 Netani Talei

Substitutes
16 Andy Titterrell
17 Alex Allan
18 Geoff Cross
19 David Denton
20 Roddy Grant
21 Piers Francis 
22 Ben Atiga
23 Lee Jones

Edinburgh have made one change to their team and bizarrely Denton is on the bench.

Thoughts?

by GLove39 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:09 pm

9-0 down already? Going to be a long afternoon

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:13 pm

Again, we keep getting penalised by getting isolated. How did these guys not learn after the reverse fixture that you just cant do that against saracens? Do they do no analysis before games!?!?!

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:14 pm

gonna be a long afternoon for sure. what horrid conditions for rugby

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:14 pm

Thats how to do a grubber kick.

God Saracens always make it look so easy, its just simple pick and drive rugby getting into a good field position, always keeping the pressure on.

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:16 pm

wonder if they'll bother clearing the Edinburgh try line?

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:18 pm

Nice try by Scotlands best fullback!!!

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:19 pm

Tonks scores one of the jammiest tries ever, fields a high ball with his foot, hoofs it up, saracens spill it and then he dribbles it into the in goal area and falls on it!

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:22 pm

It may have been jammy but Tonks always follows up his kicks and gets himself into the right position so he can put pressure on opposition. I'm never gonna forgive Johnson for not including him in Scotland squad, its absolute madness!

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:22 pm

and then back to the aimless hoof it out on the full gameplan.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:50 pm

CRIMINAL! utterly criminal.

by GLove39 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:50 pm

Credit to Saracens, bloody cheeky try clap

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:52 pm

But what were edinburgh doing? Having a wee rest and completely taking their eye off the ball?

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:57 pm

Refs doing Edinburgh no favours tho - nice counter ruck penalised for reasons I can't see.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:58 pm

TJ wrote:Refs doing Edinburgh no favours tho - nice counter ruck penalised for reasons I can't see.

You have to expect that when you play saracens though and play around it.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:12 pm

2 li8neouts in saracens 22 in a row, two lineouts lost through stupidity

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:14 pm

Bring Francis on Bradley, do something, this is just getting depressing.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:14 pm

3 lineouts in a row now, this one in our own half

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:16 pm

kicked out on the full, the catalogue of errors is farcical

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:20 pm

good effort Dougie Fife

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:24 pm

Laidlaw again.. kicks it away... Play ends with Saracens scrum in Edinburgh's half... Saracens win scrum... make ground into Edinburgh's 22...

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:25 pm

... and Hodgson scores!!! All from Laidlaw deciding to give possession away needlessly when in Saracens 22. Do you see why i think Laidlaw is useless?

by trebellbobaggins Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:26 pm

That's them in a home spot for now and ulster pushed down.

Could all change still.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:26 pm

bsando wrote:... and Hodgson scores!!! All from Laidlaw deciding to give possession away needlessly when in Saracens 22. Do you see why i think Laidlaw is useless?

Its clearly the gameplan. Last season Laidlaw barely kicked the ball once.

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:27 pm

I have given up watching. Sad state of afFars. Why when I am of English west country descent have i ended up and Edinburgh / Scots fan? one cannot change what is in ones heart but its 'SNOT FAIR!!!!!!!

by formerly known as Sam Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:29 pm

Last season Laidlaw played with a 9 that had the skills to control the game. Laidlaw didn't need to kick often.

Sarries are very good at applying pressure to a 10.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:29 pm

Lee Jones drops the ball, where have we seen that before?

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:29 pm

Imperialbigdave wrote:
bsando wrote:... and Hodgson scores!!! All from Laidlaw deciding to give possession away needlessly when in Saracens 22. Do you see why i think Laidlaw is useless?

Its clearly the gameplan. Last season Laidlaw barely kicked the ball once.

I suspect more likely that Laidlaws confidence and judgement is shot - slowly laying back to form but a shadow of the player he was in the first half of last season.

by clivemcl Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:29 pm

Thanks for nuthin' Edinburgh

by GLove39 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:30 pm

Snowy conditions and Edinburgh in a festive mood, dishing out gifts...

by GLove39 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:32 pm

utterly pathetic

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:35 pm

Officialy worst team in eurpoean history!

by mbernz Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:36 pm

Saracens finish like they started, 5 tries against Edinburgh. You've got to give credit to them for that in those conditions.

by majesticimperialman Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:36 pm

Not the best of weather for playing rugby, but well done sarries 5 try's is a fantastic win for them.

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:38 pm

hmm I don't know Imperial... Was it the gameplan for Scotland vs Tonga? Because he had a shocker in that game too.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:46 pm

bsando wrote:hmm I don't know Imperial... Was it the gameplan for Scotland vs Tonga? Because he had a shocker in that game too.

Its been the gameplan all season regardless of whos playing flyhalf.

by bsando Sun 20 Jan 2013, 3:09 pm

Imperialbigdave wrote:
bsando wrote:hmm I don't know Imperial... Was it the gameplan for Scotland vs Tonga? Because he had a shocker in that game too.

Its been the gameplan all season regardless of whos playing flyhalf.

What about the win over Ospreys? Laidlaw wasn't at flyhalf that day and we won 23 - 13. The only other wins we've had this season have been against Connacht (not exactly the toughest team in the Rabbo) and Blues (who are having perhaps an even worse season than Edinburgh). Yet we manage to beat Ospreys well with, you guessed it, no Laidlaw. Hunter was at FH vs Ulster the previous week where we lost 45-20, but we were right in that game up until 60th minute and we had lots of key players missing. I'm just trying to present another perspective on why Edinburgh are playing so badly this season instead of simply blaming the coaches.

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 3:13 pm

Bsando -but why has a player who masterminded great wins and looked completely assured last season been poor this season? Early on Laidlaw looked like a rabbit in the headlights.

My view its because he was buggered about by Robinson and made to play a gameplan he knew did not suit him by both Robinson and Bradley.

When a player has a collapse in form and confidence it is up to the coaches to get him back in the right place mentally and they failed to do so. They must carry the blame for this

I think dropping him a couple of months ago would have been right - send him back to play in B&I cup for example to allow him to regain form and confidence

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 3:16 pm

bsando wrote:
Imperialbigdave wrote:
bsando wrote:hmm I don't know Imperial... Was it the gameplan for Scotland vs Tonga? Because he had a shocker in that game too.

Its been the gameplan all season regardless of whos playing flyhalf.

What about the win over Ospreys? Laidlaw wasn't at flyhalf that day and we won 23 - 13. The only other wins we've had this season have been against Connacht (not exactly the toughest team in the Rabbo) and Blues (who are having perhaps an even worse season than Edinburgh). Yet we manage to beat Ospreys well with, you guessed it, no Laidlaw. Hunter was at FH vs Ulster the previous week where we lost 45-20, but we were right in that game up until 60th minute and we had lots of key players missing. I'm just trying to present another perspective on why Edinburgh are playing so badly this season instead of simply blaming the coaches.

even in those games we kicked the leather off the ball. Seriously, every game this season, there has been aimless kicking, regardless of whos at 10. Bradley has stated in multiple interviews that he wants to build a territorial game this season. Read todays scotland on sunday, he says it, he said it last week, and the week before etc.it is the gameplan and its not working.

by justified sinner Sun 20 Jan 2013, 3:30 pm

Bradley (UMM) has stated several times that he wants the team to play to the gameplan. That gameplan is to kick for territory, it clearly doesn't suit Edinburgh who are much better playing ball in hand.

While I'm ranting why the hell is McGinty still employed? Consistently one of the worse defensive records in the Rabo and as for Heini, meh. Bring in Mercer.

Dear Michael I believe you can get a flight to Dublin for 29.99 and then a bus to Cork, I'll pay.

JS

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 3:33 pm

Sweet jesus, id do a dark knight style repatriation for a big mac and medium coke

by justified sinner Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:16 pm

Update can get a flight from London to Dublin for 77, just go today Michael. I'll pay, please just go.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:32 pm

nothing but silence coming from the club on all forms of communication, id imagine theyre working overtime to try and sugar-coat the match report and squeeze some pathetic positive from it.

by **RDW** Sun 20 Jan 2013, 5:07 pm

Right luckily I missed that match - were there ANY positives at all? Any individual good performances?

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 5:10 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Right luckily I missed that match - were there ANY positives at all? Any individual good performances?

no.

by GLove39 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 5:12 pm

Imperialbigdave wrote:nothing but silence coming from the club on all forms of communication, id imagine theyre working overtime to try and sugar-coat the match report and squeeze some pathetic positive from it.

"Edinburgh maintained their 100% record in this years Heineken Cup in tough and snowy conditions at Vicarage Road. When asked to sum up the campaign, head coach Michael Bradley said, "I think we can be very proud of what we achieved, to get as far in the Heineken Cup as 3 times champions Leinster is testament to both myself & the players". "

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 5:15 pm

GLove39 wrote:
Imperialbigdave wrote:nothing but silence coming from the club on all forms of communication, id imagine theyre working overtime to try and sugar-coat the match report and squeeze some pathetic positive from it.

"Edinburgh maintained their 100% record in this years Heineken Cup in tough and snowy conditions at Vicarage Road. When asked to sum up the campaign, head coach Michael Bradley said, "I think we can be very proud of what we achieved, to get as far in the Heineken Cup as 3 times champions Leinster is testament to both myself & the players". "

You know, I could actually see them peddling that line.

by aitchw Sun 20 Jan 2013, 5:35 pm

Tough afternoon guys. Commiserations.

by **RDW** Sun 20 Jan 2013, 5:40 pm

Ok, any individual glimpses? A good break? Big tackle? Anything to take from it?

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 5:46 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ok, any individual glimpses? A good break? Big tackle? Anything to take from it?

tonks scored a try from a chip chase, but it was always going to happen at some point this season.

erm... Talei made a couple of metres with a carry at one point?

by **RDW** Sun 20 Jan 2013, 5:51 pm

Sounds depressing.

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