v2 G.O.AT Round 1 Group 11

Friday’s group was neck and neck and well neck all day as three out of the four participants battled it out for your votes. Australian bowling legend Shane Warne eventually won the group come close of play with 22 votes, just two behind Sergei Bubka who also progresses with 20 votes. Narrowly missing out is motor sports Valentino Rossi who despite securing 18 votes exits the competition with baseball's Ty Cobb who bagged a disappointing 2 votes.

Today’s group sees athletics, rowing, cycling and cricket compete for your votes.

We have two participants championed today with articles both written by ChequeredJersey, so please feel free to submit your own argument below for the ones not championed.

Please vote for the competitor you believe has achieved the most in sport and should progress into the next round.

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Usain Bolt- Athletics- Championed by- ChequeredJersey

In the eternal discussions about the greatest ever in any category, most of the argument is based on subjective opinion backed up by a few selected stats rather than fact. Sport is no exception especially as finding absolute comparisons between different sports is impossible. One man though, we can give specific facts about.

Over the accepted minimum distance, he is the fastest man in the world and in recorded history, running 100m in a ridiculous 9.58 seconds. He also holds the 2nd fastest time, 2 other world records at the distance, the most times a man has broken the 10s barrier and 2 Olympic Gold Medals won with incredible ease and seeming lack of effort. In a 150m run (at which he also holds the World's best time), he ran the last 100m in 8.70 seconds, the fastest recorded 100m run in any context by a human being, at over 40km/hour. If he hits a child, there is a 40% chance they will live

In the 200m, he holds the world record of 19.19. He set the record before that, beating one that many thought could stand for ever when Johnson set it, at the 2008 Olympic games. He won the double gold in the 100m/200m twice in a row. Michael Johnson calls him the GOAT. He can probably run a fantastic 400m, long jump and was offered to play for Manchester United, the most marketable Football brand in the world. He hit Chris Gayle, one of the best allrounder cricketers playing today, for 6 in an exhibition match and clean bowled him! He shares the 4x100m WR with his Jamaican team-mates as well as Gold in that event.

He has , at 26 years of age, 6 Olympic Golds, World Records in every race he competes in, 5 WC golds and 2 silvers, and numerous other medals. Bolt is one of only eight athletes to win world championships at the youth, junior, and senior level of an athletic event.He was the youngest junior gold medallist ever.

Beyond sport itself, he is the face of and the rejuvenation of athletics and the Olympics. Known throughout the world, the most famous man from his Nation. He has inspired millions to try athletics with his youthful approach and joy.He was the main draw and the star of the London 2012 games, the most viewed sporting event in recorded history. Countless times the sporting icon of the year. Fastest man on Earth.

I genuinely dislike Bolt, I find him arrogant and inconsiderate of others in his demeanour before, during an after races. One of the most amazing things about him is that he could clearly run much faster if he tried throughout the race, he could train much harder in his own admission, he could do other events, he slows down towards the finish line if he can get away with it, he ate chicken nuggets before winning Gold on Beijing. Still untouchable. His technique is poor, especially his start. Doesn't matter. He is in a league of his own. Despite my dislike of his attitude, I can still accept that he gas inspired many and is a positive factor for his sport and sport in general. Despite disliking him, I can still say he is probably one of, if not the only, GOAT

Steve Redgrave- Rowing- Championed by- ChequeredJersey

One of the key features, in my opinion, for the GOAT in all sports is that a candidate must transcend his sport and attain significance and influence in the lives of people beyond the hard-core sporting fan-base. They should also attain dominance within their own sport. Many sportsmen (this term includes women too) are talented, some enough that they stand out above their peers. Far fewer stand out across the eras of a sport. Of these, even fewer are household names, celebrities or national icons especially in the ‘less popular sports’. Other sportsmen garner fame and celebrity status, but few of these can say they achieved unique accomplishments for sporting reasons. Those that fit into both categories and also manage to be uniquely great across a type of sport, not merely their own specialty, are incredibly rare. Sir Steven Geoffrey Redgrave, CBE, deputy lieutenant, is one of these. I will endeavour to show how in this article. Sorry that it’s a bit long, I got carried away…

If you ask a member of the British public to name an Olympian, chances are Redgrave will be near the top of the list. If you ask them to name a rower, I’d be amazed if he weren’t. He remains the only person to win 5 Gold Olympic Medals in 5 consecutive games in an endurance sport (as well as a solitary Bronze) and he adds 9 Gold, 2 Silver and 1 Bronze World Championship Medals from 1986-99 to that tally. He won his first Gold at age 22 and his last at 38, 16 years of Olympic domination in a sport that is based on physical strength and fitness, attributes that for a man peak in one’s mid-twenties. During the majority of that time, Redgrave’s crews were expected to win every race they entered and in a sport that has a number of strong competitive nations and is subject to conditions and how the crew clicks and other variables they nearly did win every race for nearly 20 years.

Non-internationally, he won different categories at Henley Royal Regatta, the premier sprint racing rowing race in the world, 21 times, the last one at age 39. These events ranged from sweep (one bladed) to scull (two oars) and from singles on his own to coxed 4s with a number of partners, as were his Olympic medals. The only constant was Redgrave. He also represented England in the 1986 Commonwealth games where he won 3 Golds in different races. I don’t know how many times he won the premier Head (long distance) racing event in the world, the Head of the River Race on the Thames, but he certainly did win it with Leander VIII and IV several times as well as his sprint victories listed here.

Most rowers specialise at rowing on one side of the boat – Bowside (starboard, or the right side of the boat from the cox’ point of view) or Strokeside (port). As well as sculling with 2 oars, Redgrave rowed both Bow and Strokeside and won Olympic Gold on both sides, testament to his technical proficiency (something very underappreciated by lay people regarding rowing) not just his strength. He was also renowned as a tactician and made the calls in his coxless crews and knew exactly when to wait and when to push another crew.
The only thing missing from his portfolio is a Boat Race victory, due to ineligibility.

He was also World indoor rowing champion (on a ergometric rowing machine) in 1990 and was British bobsleighing Champion and has run several London Marathons for charity. He did all of this with Ulcerative Colitis and Diabetes Mellitus Type 1, both chronic and debilitating diseases with severe health effects, both worse under the stress of severe physical exertion which rowing training entails more than most existent activities.

These are his considerable achievements within sport. Related to these, he has been BBC Sports Personality of the Year, won a Knighthood and a CBE from the Queen, a special pin from the Olympic Committee for winning 5 Golds in consecutive Games, a Thomas Keller Medal from the International Rowing Federation for his Outstanding International Career, has Carried the Olympic Torch in the Olympic Stadium at 2012 London, been the UK’s Olympic Flag bearer in 1992 and ’96, won Celebrity Gladiators, a BBC Sports Lifetime Achievement Award. He has set up rowing academies in India, raised millions of pounds for Charity, is an ambassador for Fairtrade and Founder and President of the Steve Redgrave Trust, and the vice-president of Diabetes UK and involved in many other charities. He is now Sports Legacy Champion and a Member of Sports Relief’s Steering Committee. The President of British Rowing, a Steward of Henley Royal Regatta and Vice President of the British Olympic Association and now a decade after his retirement is still the face of Rowing.

Since his retirement he has done so much for Sport and charity. He is a British legend who represents his country now as an ambassador. He epitomises determination, pushing oneself beyond the limit and the honour of representing one’s country. Inside his sport he has been a master and a mentor and outside of it a Champion for all the qualities we get from playing sport and all the emotion we suffer through spectating it. He is surely the inspiration for so many rowers, so many British sportspeople across every sport. He has touched many lives through the greatest of his achievements, people crying with him and for him. For all this, I propose Sir Steve Redgrave as the GOAT.

Bolt is the obvious canditate but Redgrave is a local hero of mine and Murali is the best spinnr ever but not a GOAT.

I'm gonna pick Redgrave for his longetivity.

The winner for me has to be Sir Steve Redgrave, England's finest ever sportsman with 3 Commonwealth Golds, 5 consecutive Olympic Golds, and 9 Golds in World Championships. Hoy comes in second for me. Murali (IMO) is a cheat and Bolt is in a sport for showoffs.

I have voted for Usain Bolt, despite me not liking showmen. He's the fastest man on the planet, a double 100/200 Olympic champion. I agree with every single word of the piece above. What an icon.

Easy one for me today: Redgrave. Fantastic achievements over a long period and the perfect role model. Also battled illness to achieve that 5th Gold, an absolute legend.

Bolt is an arrogant ****wit in my view despite his talents. Also I think its too early to judge his career. Other negatives are the circus that surrounds him e.g. claims he will switch to cricket or football: no he wont, he will not be anywhere near good enough.

Murali: great achievement with the wickets record but I question the quality of opposition he took a lot of wickets against. Not really his fault that SL are not big enough to secure many big series so are often left playing the minnows

Hoy: another great British ahtlete/role model. But to me a lot of his dominance stems from the overall dominance of British Cycling in the last few years. He's clearly the best within that, but benefits hugely from superior scientific analysis and equipment.

Doubt very much that Hoy or Redgrave would be in the consideration if this was anything but a British board - both clearly excellent at what they do and with the record of Olympic and World medals to back it up, but in largely 'niche' sports - track cycling is by far the poor relation to road racing, with only 3 or 4 nations really putting much investment in (and no-one as much as Team GB over the last decade or so). Redgrave's rowing success also largely coincided with the collapse of the Communist Europe powerhouses (and benefitted from British rowing being able to bring in the East German coach Juregn Grobler).

Murali - Warne was the better cricketer, even if maybe not quite as successful a bowler, so I find it difficult to vote for Murali.

Which leaves Usain Bolt - the guy is a freak of the highest order, and I still don't think he has quite fulfilled his potential at 200m (and if he was prepared to put the training effort in, he could also re-write the record books for 400m), yet already (at 26) has done the Olympic 100m and 200m double twice, the only man to have retained both titles. And of course the 100m is THE event of the Olympics and other athletics meetings - no-one in the history of athletics has been blessed with the same natural ability to run fast.
Yes, he's an arrogant so and so, plays up to the cameras, reputedly lacks commitment in training and is far from the best technician in his event, but still the rest can't beat him.

Funniest comment I saw on 606v1 was where someone wrote a thread stating that the IAAF were refusing to ratify Tyson Gay's 100m world record because he'd had an alien as a pace maker.

My only concern in voting for Bolt is that the spectre of doping is never far from the 100m champions, and there have been rumours about Bolt's training group being involved with Angel Hernandez, who was Conte's side-kick at Balco. So far though, there is nothing more than rumour, so as it stands I can't count it as a negative (indeed, I suspect a lot of the guys we've already voted through have been involved in doping in one form or another but were just not caught).

My question is, if you are going to have Muralitharan in the GOAT list, how many cricketers should make the short-list. We should also have Viv Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Malcolm Marshall, and so many. Are we going to have all those in the upcoming lists? May be a maximum of 5 candidates per sport should have been done.

these groups get harder and harder and harder.

how can i pick bewteen redgrave and bolt..

also muli and hoy would win many other groups..

I have to discount hoy- because he clearly hasnt done as much as regrave- redgrave has won golds in 5 olympics

Bolt is proberly the ultimate athlete ever imo..

Muli is clearly awesome- but does he throw legally- so out!- Warne above him imo..

Going for redgrave.. not happy with the grou..

Was Redgrave often even the best rower in his own boat ? Amazing lengevity in a fairly niche sport but its Bolt all the way for me.
The guy is phenomenal, yes the showboating is annoying but the talent is amazing.

Agreed, there are far too many Cricketers so far.

mystiroakey wrote:these groups get harder and harder and harder.

how can i pick bewteen redgrave and bolt..

also muli and hoy would win many other groups..

I have to discount hoy- because he clearly hasnt down as much as regrave- redgrave has won golds in 4 olympics(is that right)

Bolt is proberly the ultimate athlete ever imo..

Muli is clearly awesome- but does he through legally- so out!- Warne above him imo..

Going for redgrave.. not happy with the grou..

Mysati, Hoy won more medals at fewer games, including more golds than Redgrave. How has he done less ?

has any oylmpian got golds in 5 consec games..?

many others have hit hoys golds-

track cycling had fewer events in 2012 due to the organisers believing there were two many oppurtunities for individuals..

i would argue that the same applies to swimming- so why pick on track cycling.

There is a clear record that redgrave has acheived that no one else has(or has anyone got golds in 5 or more)- so that is the reason.

But if i was gonna talk about my goat athlete then bolt wins for me..

This is only the fourth cricketer (and all of the others got through)... there have been more than four boxers and even three snooker players...

I'm a big Redgrave fan and have voted for him. From a British perspective his achievements were incredible: at a time when we didn't winthe amount of medals we do now (his gold in Atlanta was Britain's only gold of that Games) he was able to win five times in a row, in an incredibly demanding sport.

Hoy - High on the list of great track cyclists, for sure. I wouldn't begrudge him going through over Bolt.

Bolt - For me, his legacy is not yet established. He's a superstar now, and greater than any other 100m runner since Carl Lewis, but its too early to tell where his place in the pantheon will be in 10 years time. For example, Maurice Greene was big 10 years ago, but he'd never be put forward for this poll now.

Murali - Whilst respecting his achievements, I do think he's the weakest of the four today. He has a wicket taking record, but he always seemed that bit more mechanical than Warne - just lacking a little bit of wizardry, particularly when the going got tough.

I guess if you measure greatness by last man standing then Redgrave is right up there. Has he at any stage in his career been the greatest rower on the planet though in terms of ability, I doubt it. Pele and Bradman were in teams as the best players, was Redgrave when he was in a boat with Pinsent...no way.
Hoy was/is certainly the best at what he does individually, that puts him above Redgrave for me by quite a distance.

Im surprised to see Bolt being questioned. Holding all time records in two marquee events. Find it hard to imagine what more he could do. Even if he retired tomorrow Id consider his legacy intact and acheivements unbelievable.

But then bolt will clearly beat hoy in that argument diggs..

I use your argument for woods over nicklaus..

I could argue tyson over ali as well for the same reasons..(i wouldnt in this case- but by the logic i could)

All these arguments of transending the sports and longleivity being something a GOAT needs comes into play for me this time around..

"...If he hits a child, there is a 40% chance they will live"

This made me laugh!!

Hard to pick one here. The only one i can really discount is Mural, strong arguements could be made for all the others. At the moment i'm leaning towards Bolt. He is effortlessly talented, and geniunely head and shoulders above anyone else in his events. For a guy to be so successful without putting the time & effort in that all his competitors do is just incredible.

On top of that, i don't mind his arrogance. Like the write up says - he's rejuvenated athletics and always tries to put on a show.

Yes manos, although the 100m and 200m records are constantly evolving - at almost every time a current runner has held it. His achievements are great, but I think its too early to see where his place is in the pantheon of runners.

I disagree with the 'Last Man Standing' idea Diggers. I'm not qualified to say if he was better than Pinsent or not, but the fact is that they were both in the boat for 4 gold medals, and Redgrave won an additional one with someone else. To be undefeated in Olympic competition (finals) from 1984 to 2000 is stunning in a strength sport like Rowing.

manos de piedra wrote:Im surprised to see Bolt being questioned. Holding all time records in two marquee events. Find it hard to imagine what more he could do. Even if he retired tomorrow Id consider his legacy intact and acheivements unbelievable.

Go to agree to be honest. Green never dominated the 100 and 200 the way Bolt has, he only won one individual Olympic gold compared to Bolts four and of course Bolt has the world records.
Sure his isn't finished yet but the legacvy is rock solid. You can say about anyone in any sport that somebody else could come along and do better, why just level that against Bolt ?

I'd also add that I recognise I'm being a bit Brit-centric here, but then this is a British forum so we're allowed

mystiroakey wrote:But then bolt will clearly beat hoy in that argument diggs..

I use your argument for woods over nicklaus..

I could argue tyson over ali as well for the same reasons..(i wouldnt in this case- but by the logic i could)

All these arguments of transending the sports and longleivity being something a GOAT needs comes into play for me this time around..

Has redgrave or Hoy transcended the sport, certainly not in any global sense. Sure they are personalities in Britain but thats about it.
The only person on here to transcend is clearly Bolt, the guy is probably one of the top 5 most famous people on the planet.

Hoy and Redgrave both had great achievements but globally in 50 years only 1 name will be remember, bolt,

Murali was good but I'd never but him in the. gOAT category

Unless the assumption is his time will be beaten in the near future then I would consider his place in the pantheon of sprinters pretty clear cut. To date he is the fastest ever. Also helps so far that he hasnt failed any drug tests, although the way sports is today I cant say Id be surprised if he did.

Diggers wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Im surprised to see Bolt being questioned. Holding all time records in two marquee events. Find it hard to imagine what more he could do. Even if he retired tomorrow Id consider his legacy intact and acheivements unbelievable.

Go to agree to be honest. Green never dominated the 100 and 200 the way Bolt has, he only won one individual Olympic gold compared to Bolts four and of course Bolt has the world records.
Sure his isn't finished yet but the legacvy is rock solid. You can say about anyone in any sport that somebody else could come along and do better, why just level that against Bolt ?

My point is more that we can't yet see how he compares to his predecessors. You see, Lewis was a world record holder for a long time and Jesse Owens's achievements were also incredible in their own way. It can take until a few years after someone retires to accurately see where they stand vis-a-vis everyone that went before.

redgrave has trancended the oylimpics, forget his sport- he has acheived what no one else has.,

Bolt has clearly trancended athletics as well.

I have allways argued that bolt is the only sportsmen that i could put as the overall GOAT in sport of the hip without weighing it up for to long..

I have voted to get redrave threw in this case.. Bolt is the ultimate athlete for me.. But i have allways kind of argued if there is enough skill invloved in sprint running..

Shelsey93 wrote:

Diggers wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Im surprised to see Bolt being questioned. Holding all time records in two marquee events. Find it hard to imagine what more he could do. Even if he retired tomorrow Id consider his legacy intact and acheivements unbelievable.

Go to agree to be honest. Green never dominated the 100 and 200 the way Bolt has, he only won one individual Olympic gold compared to Bolts four and of course Bolt has the world records.
Sure his isn't finished yet but the legacvy is rock solid. You can say about anyone in any sport that somebody else could come along and do better, why just level that against Bolt ?

My point is more that we can't yet see how he compares to his predecessors. You see, Lewis was a world record holder for a long time and Jesse Owens's achievements were also incredible in their own way. It can take until a few years after someone retires to accurately see where they stand vis-a-vis everyone that went before.

Why do you have to wait, I dont see any logic in that argument at all Im afraid.
I already know how massively quick Bolt is. I know already his double treble is unique. As has been said if he stopped tomorrow he'd still have had a good stay at the top in sprint terms.
When Michael Johnson calls him the greatest sprinter in history I think you have to listen.

Has to be Bolt, for me.

Redgrave is a freak of nature, and to excel over five separate Olympics in a sport which requires such outrageous upper body strength, conditioning and lung capacity is a truly magnificent achievement.

However, he hasn't redefined the parameters of his sport the way Bolt has, and Bolt has done this in a more recognised field in which an athlete's peak years tend to be much, much shorter as well.

To put Bolt's achievements so far in to context: between 1983 and 2008, the 100m world record was gradually lowered from Calvin Smith's mark of 9.93 and Asafa Powell's world best of 9.74 - so an improvement of 0.19 seconds in twenty-five years.

However, in the space of just fifteen months, Bolt improved the world record from Powell's 9.74 down to an unbelievable 9.58 seconds, a whole 0.16 second improvement. History and conventional wisdom says that such a margin of improvement should have taken twenty years or so to achieve. Bolt did it in just one.

It's also worth notig that, until Bolt camealong, the biggest improvement on a 100m world record in a single race was 0.05 seconds, achieved by Maurice Greene when he lowered Donovan Bailey's mark of 9.84 down to 9.79 in Athens in 1999. However, Bolt more than doubled that statistic in 2009 at the Berlin World Championships, when he knocked 0.11 seconds off his old mark to run the current record of 9.58.

And that's my point - few sportsmen, or women, have ever defied what seems possible the way Bolt has.

His 2008 and 2012 Olympic 'double-double' stands as one of the most remarkable achievements in the history of the Games, and another thing which amazes me about Bolt is his ridiculous amount of God-given talent. As Michael Johnson himself said, "he doesn't run with technique." His head rocks, he drags it up in his drive phase etc, and yet he's still setting new standards in both the 100m and 200m which, until only very recently, many of us probably never thought we'd see in our lifetimes.

And, of course, there's the small matter of him being perhaps the most important sports star on the planet right now. Say what you like about his pre-race antics or cocky demeanour (personally, I think he's a breath of fresh air and just a joy to watch), but the fact is that he's just different to the rest and, as such, he's done more than any other athlete since Carl Lewis to expand the image of track and field and get people interested in watching / participating in the sport.

How many sports stars these days are true, bona fide world-wide superstars in the proper sense? Not that many, and certainly not many from the world of track and field. But Bolt is just that and his influence on his profession has been astronomical.

Redgrave a solid second here for me, but I see this group as a battle for second place and it's Bolt who is the clear stand out here for me.

in bolts case diggs - i dont need anyone telling me that bolt is the best sprinter in history.. He clearly is

He has eveolved the sport- I never understood the argument that shorter atheltes were better at sprinting. It never made sense to me.. All it would take is for someone tall to practise and be coordinated..

however this is something we need to think about..

Given that tall athletes have never been trained to becoming sprinters we could say that we have held back the sport and if we had been concentrating on taller athletes with longer range bolt may not even be the best..

But the good thing is - Bolt has disproved the original theory and it will open the flood gates for taller sprinters in the future

Easiest decision for me today. Big difference between being on the shortlist for Britain's greatest Olympians and competing for greatest sportsman of all time. Whatever you may think of his action, murali was a great bowler, but he's not a shoe-in for an all time cricket 11, so someway off the pace here. This is Bolt, by the distance he won most of his golds.

Must have been tough call for you diggers. Was your finger hovering over redgrave's name for an age before finally plumping for bolt?

mystiroakey wrote:redgrave has trancended the oylimpics, forget his sport- he has acheived what no one else has.,

Bolt has clearly trancended athletics as well.

I have allways argued that bolt is the only sportsmen that i could put as the overall GOAT in sport of the hip without weighing it up for to long..

I have voted to get redrave threw in this case.. Bolt is the ultimate athlete for me.. But i have allways kind of argued if there is enough skill invloved in sprint running..

Sprinting at the top level is actually very technical, you will hear sprinters talk about phases to the races and transitions, they dont just practise running quickly. That said rowing is of course technical so I wouldnt particulary split them on that front. Its about perfecting technique to harness power and speed really in both sports.

Shelsey93 wrote:

Diggers wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Im surprised to see Bolt being questioned. Holding all time records in two marquee events. Find it hard to imagine what more he could do. Even if he retired tomorrow Id consider his legacy intact and acheivements unbelievable.

Go to agree to be honest. Green never dominated the 100 and 200 the way Bolt has, he only won one individual Olympic gold compared to Bolts four and of course Bolt has the world records.
Sure his isn't finished yet but the legacvy is rock solid. You can say about anyone in any sport that somebody else could come along and do better, why just level that against Bolt ?

My point is more that we can't yet see how he compares to his predecessors. You see, Lewis was a world record holder for a long time and Jesse Owens's achievements were also incredible in their own way. It can take until a few years after someone retires to accurately see where they stand vis-a-vis everyone that went before.

Hes faster than those guys. If someone comes along and beats Bolt and betters his records and acheivements, fair enough, but I dont see how he can rank behind any other sprinter as things stand now to be honest.

I've never really rated sprinting as much of a sport anyway. A to B, fast as possible. Rowing tests far more elements of technique, stamina, teamwork, endurance etc.

mystiroakey wrote:in bolts case diggs - i dont need anyone telling me that bolt is the best sprinter in history.. He clearly is

He has eveolved the sport- I never understood the argument that shorter atheltes were better at sprinting. It never made sense to me.. All it would take is for someone tall to practise and be coordinated..

however this is something we need to think about..

Given that tall athletes have never been trained to becoming sprinters we could say that we have held back the sport and if we had been concentrating on taller athletes with longer range bolt may not even be the best..

But the good thing is - Bolt has disproved the original theory and it will open the flood gates for taller sprinters in the future

Lewis and Christie were hardly dwarfs Mysti, sure Bolt is really big but I dont really see that means other big guys will necessarilly be able to do what he did.

Diggers wrote:The only person on here to transcend is clearly Bolt, the guy is probably one of the top 5 most famous people on the planet.

Fame doesn't equal greatness though. What about Beckham in football? Or Kournikova in Tennis? Freddie Flintoff?

I would have to concede though that Bolt backs his fame up with performances unlike those three and many other examples.

Diggers wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:in bolts case diggs - i dont need anyone telling me that bolt is the best sprinter in history.. He clearly is

He has eveolved the sport- I never understood the argument that shorter atheltes were better at sprinting. It never made sense to me.. All it would take is for someone tall to practise and be coordinated..

however this is something we need to think about..

Given that tall athletes have never been trained to becoming sprinters we could say that we have held back the sport and if we had been concentrating on taller athletes with longer range bolt may not even be the best..

But the good thing is - Bolt has disproved the original theory and it will open the flood gates for taller sprinters in the future

Lewis and Christie were hardly dwarfs Mysti, sure Bolt is really big but I dont really see that means other big guys will necessarilly be able to do what he did.

If one can do it- others can.. He is not a super human from out of space

milkyboy wrote:

Must have been tough call for you diggers. Was your finger hovering over redgrave's name for an age before finally plumping for bolt?

It was a tough one, as you know my own rowing career could have been quite something.....

mystiroakey wrote:

Diggers wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:in bolts case diggs - i dont need anyone telling me that bolt is the best sprinter in history.. He clearly is

He has eveolved the sport- I never understood the argument that shorter atheltes were better at sprinting. It never made sense to me.. All it would take is for someone tall to practise and be coordinated..

however this is something we need to think about..

Given that tall athletes have never been trained to becoming sprinters we could say that we have held back the sport and if we had been concentrating on taller athletes with longer range bolt may not even be the best..

But the good thing is - Bolt has disproved the original theory and it will open the flood gates for taller sprinters in the future

Lewis and Christie were hardly dwarfs Mysti, sure Bolt is really big but I dont really see that means other big guys will necessarilly be able to do what he did.

If one can do it- others can.. He is not a super human from out of space

He might be.....

Diggs.

I think the main point of this is that- one of the main reasons why bolt has shreaded the record books is because of his size..Once other tall guys get involved then the playing field will be closer..

I would bet that in 20 years time or so - all sprinters will be 6-3 up..

Bigger leg range is a clear advantage in sprinting

Duty281 wrote:I've never really rated sprinting as much of a sport anyway. A to B, fast as possible. Rowing tests far more elements of technique, stamina, teamwork, endurance etc.

Rebecca Romero. Switches from rowing to cycling. Has Success in both. Was she a unique talent, or is it just that both are strength endurance events. Not buying this technique argument I'm afraid... Its repetition under stress, And rowing is a niche sport in my book, that gets over-stated at the Olympics in the uk because we do well on it.

That's a good point mystir is making about size of sprinters.

Similar to the talk a few days ago around how Lomu has changed the mould for wingers in Rugby Union. They're nearly all giants these days, but even 15 years ago tended to be small, quick men. Shane Williams is maybe the last of that breed.

Bolt - as great as Owens in many ways and to me, a breath of fresh air. His cockiness has a playfulness and humour that totally eluded Lewis, Christie, Bailey and the strutting posse of recent Americans. He has also backed it up with epoch-defining performances. The best ever in his discipline and by some distance.

Let's not minimise Redgrave's achievements just because he's up against such a titanic figure. Redgrave is one of the greatest Olympians of all time from any country - you simply can't underestimate the accomplishments of a man who was among the elite of his field for 16 years. However, here, he is no more than a worthy runner-up. Hoy is the great sprint track cyclist in history, but I feel that this is slightly too narrow a field for our purposes here, and he, in any event, does not quite have Redgrave's longevity.

Murali, like Warne has vast stats in his favour, but not the ability to do the business consistently against his sternest rivals. In australia and India, Murali was comparatively ordinary - his abilty to cut a repeated swathe through half a dozen weaker line-ups is not enough for me even to consider him here.

mystiroakey wrote:Diggs.

I think the main point of this is that- one of the main reasons why bolt has shreaded the record books is because of his size..Once other tall guys get involved then the playing field will be closer..

I would bet that in 20 years time or so - all sprinters will be 6-3 up..

Bigger leg range is a clear advantage in sprinting

Dont really agree Mysti to be honest, its a possibility but I cant see any particular evidence to suggest that taller athletes have somehow being excluded from attempting to run quickly before. There have been plenty of massive 200 runners in the past, not that rare at all, but the next quickest guys after Bolt have all been relativey small.
But you might be onto something, time will tell.

Diggers there was allways a notion that tall ahtletes couldnt run fast.. There was a (wrong in my mind) theory that being taller made it harder to be coordinated enough to run fast..

There has been alot of pigeon holeing in regards to what sport you should play in the past

Taller atheltes were pushed into high jumping and stuff from my knowledge.

Has to be Bolt.
Redgrave, Murali and Hoy all have great records, but, in terms of global sport Bolt is by far the biggest name.
And for good reason, an unprecedented 'double triple' at the Olympics, 5 time world champion, world record holder in three events, world athlete of the year 4 times, track and field athlete of the year 3 times and BBC overseas sports personality of the year 3 times.

Diggers wrote:Was Redgrave often even the best rower in his own boat ? Amazing lengevity in a fairly niche sport but its Bolt all the way for me.
The guy is phenomenal, yes the showboating is annoying but the talent is amazing.

It's hard to define best rower. Technically, probably not, but then mixing in power and grit and endurance makes it a difficult question to answer. He was however the link between all of those medal winning crews

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Big guys have physics working against them. According to the Journal of Sports Science & Medicine, "[T]he acceleration of the body is proportional to the force produced but inversely proportional to the body mass, according to Newton's second law. … This implies an inverse relationship between height and performance in disciplines such as sprint running." In other words, it's hard to produce enough power to overcome the drag of a big body. Usain Bolt, science tells us, is a top-heavy minivan racing against a field full of Suzuki Hayabusas.

That Journal of Sports Science & Medicine study, which may now need to be rewritten, found that world champion sprinters ranged between 5-foot-9 at the low end to 6-foot-3 at the absolute max. (Unlike distance runners, sprinters do need to be big and strong enough to generate explosive speed. That's why 5-foot-9 has traditionally been the minimum height, whereas the elite distance runner Haile Gebrselassie is a mere 5-foot-3.) That range covers all the recent gold medalists, from Maurice Greene to Linford Christie. But not Usain Bolt.
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I belive it does have to be rewritten , any way that is some insight into the way we have viewed sprinting

Slightly miffed that both my championees were in the same poll!

I think most people who were tall just struggled to start Mysti and then get in to full flow, so the tendency would be for them to do the 200.
Just because Bolt has the necessary cadence to overcome that doesnt automatically mean others will. Lamaitre is naother tall sprinter who struggles with his start.
Like I say Lewis and Christie were both over 6 1" which back then was pretty tall, if you were quick enough you'd be trained just like anyone else.

Diggers wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Must have been tough call for you diggers. Was your finger hovering over redgrave's name for an age before finally plumping for bolt?

It was a tough one, as you know my own rowing career could have been quite something.....

I'm impressed with your modesty digs, must be hard not to play big time Charlie under the circumstances. I'll respect your anonymity and keep the chuckles to myself when the keyboard warriors wax lyrical on rowing technique

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9135871/Usain-Bolt-has-the-perfect-body-shape-for-sprinting-success-researchers-find.html

a good article on the evolotion of sprinting

"
Usain Bolt has the perfect body shape for sprinting success, researchers find
The secret of how sprinters have been able to get faster and faster over the years has been revealed – the athletes are getting taller and skinner, according to scientists.
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