Ball Markers

What are the rules on Ball markers ? - My understanding is that you can use anything to mark your ball.
There are recomendations as to what to use, but not an actual definition.
Given this, what happens if your ball hits a markers ball marker ?
I dont think there is a penalty of any kind is there ?

No penalty, happens all the time (relatively speaking).

I always use a plastic ball-marker but most use a coin - the American quarter, which is quite big, is commonly used. Would think anything bigger would be frowned upon.

You can mark a ball with anything. The main thing is that the ball must be replaced on the same spot as it is removed from. It is recommended that you use a coin or similar object. You must not do anything that could be construed as testing the surface of the green.

There is no penalty if a ball hits a marker. If it is in your way, you are within your rights to have it moved off your line. This is normally done by a putter head length left or right. Sorry if I'm now beginning to tell you things you already know.

What if it was your partners marker , in a 4-ball comp ?

What Im getting at is that it seems possible that you could use a marker large enough to act as a backstop behind the hole for another player.

I know this would never actually happen, but doesnt seem to be a rule against it.

golfermartin wrote:If it is in your way, you are within your rights to have it moved off your line. This is normally done by a putter head length left or right. Sorry if I'm now beginning to tell you things you already know.

a guy i play with a fair bit now used to move his marker a full putter length when he first started playing with us, before i convinced him just a putter head to the side would do.

i thought i was quite a good putter until that day - i mean, there's only so far off-line you can hit a 10 footer

busted wrote:What Im getting at is that it seems possible that you could use a marker large enough to act as a backstop behind the hole for another player.

If you mean a physical object like a brick to stop it going too far, well I think that would be frowned upon.
If however you mean just as a point of reference, well that's OK. There was an incident when Seve was playing in the Ryder Cup when he didn't give his opponent a short putt as he wanted to use his opponents marker as a line to aim at. He was booed initially, but when the referee explained his actions after the hole was decided, it all calmed down. Was it Tom Lehman?

busted wrote:What if it was your partners marker , in a 4-ball comp ?

What Im getting at is that it seems possible that you could use a marker large enough to act as a backstop behind the hole for another player.

I know this would never actually happen, but doesnt seem to be a rule against it.

Your ball marker is part of your "equipment", so if you (for example) marked your ball with a brick, and your foursomes PARTNER (not opponent) hit the brick which stopped or deflected the ball, then you and or he would be penalised according to rule 19.

George

Don't think that is true. The ball marker has the same status as the ball. The ball is not defined as "equipment". Otherwise if a ball was deflected by a partners coin it would be a penalty, which it isn't.

Just been reading the rules (sad I know). Balls and ball markers are specifically excluded from the definition of "Equipment". I reckon that the rule which would cover using something like as large as a brick to mark a ball, and which is likely to affect the movement of the ball is rule 1-2: "A player must not ....take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in play".

I believe someone was once penalised for marking his ball with a beer can (Brian Barnes, possibly). I assume it was not in the spirit/etiquette of the game, being a distraction.

Empty no doubt

Half full, apparently.

I'd probably have called it half empty...

I use a Liberty sliver half dollar (JFK one) - it's probably on the large side but my view is no matter how small it is, I'm still going to be asked to move it if it's on someone's line. I also like that it's heavy enough not to move accidently, big enough to find in my pocket without fumbling about and when I'm asked to move it off line, I turn it over so I remember to move it back.

I use largish old foreign coins of which I seemed to have gathered bags full! Also always carry a small coin for marking near the hole, just to avoid causing distraction. I do have one oval shaped marker acquired years ago which has yes on one side and no on the other - caused way too much confusion along the lines of "is this one going in?" Yes or no! Then thought it would be helpful when having to move the marker to look down on "no" and realise it had to be moved, but when I move the marker I always hold putter by the head as a reminder and brain couldn't cope with a new regime!

I think I have borderline OCD as I am very particular about my marker. I like it to be very thin and if it has a pin on the back I like it to be narrow and sharp so that I can be very precise with placing it. When I lose the one I am using I get quite irritated.

For some reason using a big marker like a poker chip just seems too imprecise for me.

Going on what is said above my understanding is that you can use anything you like.

This sort of brings up another question from my round on Saturday. We have one green on a long par 3 which has a false front that the ball won't stay on as its quite steep. As it is wet my ball landed on the front and plugged. Obviously I marked it but getting it to stay there when I placed it was tough and only really possible as the greens are a little bumpy and not shaved. How would that work in summer as the ball would never stay in place?

I now use a QPR one but only white side up (white background, predominantly blue crest) rather than the blue side up (blue background, predominantly white crest). I can't actually hit the putt until the marker is magnetically clipped into the pitch mark repairer from which it came either. OCD extrordinaire...

2-8 - I'm not sure but I guess that the ball would never have stayed where it landed in summer so the question would be unlikely to arise as I guess it would have rolled back. I don't know what the answer is if it does happen though.

I think I recall one of the comps on telly last year where the ball was replaced then rolled a long way (wind/slope) and the player had to play it from where it ended up.

I sometimes just try and remember a tuft or discolored piece of grass near my ball and not bother with a marker.

2-8 if the ball won't stay I believe it can be placed at nearest point, not nearer thE hole etc.

McLaren wrote:I sometimes just try and remember a tuft or discolored piece of grass near my ball and not bother with a marker.

I would have thought that would have left you open to allegations of not replacing correctly - marking is as much for the other players to see you putting it back in the right place.

EDIT: In fact Mac, I reckon what you're doing is in breach of the rules : "However, under Rule 20-1 it is necessary to physically mark the position of the ball. Reference to an existing mark on the ground does not constitute marking the position of a ball. For example, it is not permissible to mark the position with reference to a blemish on the putting green."

twoeightnine wrote:

This sort of brings up another question from my round on Saturday. We have one green on a long par 3 which has a false front that the ball won't stay on as its quite steep. As it is wet my ball landed on the front and plugged. Obviously I marked it but getting it to stay there when I placed it was tough and only really possible as the greens are a little bumpy and not shaved. How would that work in summer as the ball would never stay in place?

Roolercoaster is right. If the ball rolls when you replace the marker, then you play it from where it ends up (assuming you haven't addressed it when it starts rolling).

I had a dispute a few years ago when my muddy ball ended up on a big slope above the pin. When I cleaned the mud off the ball it rolled about 40 feet down to the pin. My opponent wasn't having any of it, hence the dispute.

Roller_Coaster wrote:I now use a QPR one but only white side up (white background, predominantly blue crest) rather than the blue side up (blue background, predominantly white crest).

Don't know about OCD, but I think you are using a psychologically damaging ball marker. If I had to look at a QPR ball marker every time I had to putt, I would be standing over the ball thinking about QPR's inability to put the ball in the back of the net. Hardly inspiring confidence!!!

George, you are correct if the ball moves after you have removed the marker, but if you simply cannot get it to settle I think you can got to nearest place it will stay still. Not nearer the hole etc, and this may even be off the green?

Yes, I put the ball down and it stayed for about a couple of seconds and then (like I hoped it would) rolled away. It just needed the wind to get it rolling.

We all have our crosses to bear RayCU!

Fortunately I have the good grace to recognise that QPR are bl00dy awful and I am merely awaiting the bus to take me back to Championship corner. My hopes almost purely focus on avoiding liquidation after 'Arry (and Hughes too) have had a couple of transfer windows.

Still, you can't change these things can you? That and it's almost always a more exciting ride than mid-table obscurity or even winning everything all the time like Man Utd!

Bob_the_Job wrote:

McLaren wrote:I sometimes just try and remember a tuft or discolored piece of grass near my ball and not bother with a marker.

I would have thought that would have left you open to allegations of not replacing correctly - marking is as much for the other players to see you putting it back in the right place.

EDIT: In fact Mac, I reckon what you're doing is in breach of the rules : "However, under Rule 20-1 it is necessary to physically mark the position of the ball. Reference to an existing mark on the ground does not constitute marking the position of a ball. For example, it is not permissible to mark the position with reference to a blemish on the putting green."

Are you sure, I reckon if I get it back in the correct spot I am ok.

McLaren wrote:

Bob_the_Job wrote:

McLaren wrote:I sometimes just try and remember a tuft or discolored piece of grass near my ball and not bother with a marker.

I would have thought that would have left you open to allegations of not replacing correctly - marking is as much for the other players to see you putting it back in the right place.

EDIT: In fact Mac, I reckon what you're doing is in breach of the rules : "However, under Rule 20-1 it is necessary to physically mark the position of the ball. Reference to an existing mark on the ground does not constitute marking the position of a ball. For example, it is not permissible to mark the position with reference to a blemish on the putting green."

Are you sure, I reckon if I get it back in the correct spot I am ok.

I agree, the rules of golf require that the position of the ball should be marked. Quote: "The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted under a Rule that requires it to be replaced. If it is not marked, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke". As an example, it is actually an infringement of the rules to rotate a ball on the spot to identify it without first marking it. There is no problem with the ball moving, it stays in exactly the same place, but the rules state it should be marked before it is touched to identify it. I assumed that the original comment only referred to bounce games not "proper golf"

McLaren wrote:

Bob_the_Job wrote:

McLaren wrote:I sometimes just try and remember a tuft or discolored piece of grass near my ball and not bother with a marker.

I would have thought that would have left you open to allegations of not replacing correctly - marking is as much for the other players to see you putting it back in the right place.

EDIT: In fact Mac, I reckon what you're doing is in breach of the rules : "However, under Rule 20-1 it is necessary to physically mark the position of the ball. Reference to an existing mark on the ground does not constitute marking the position of a ball. For example, it is not permissible to mark the position with reference to a blemish on the putting green."

Are you sure, I reckon if I get it back in the correct spot I am ok.

Mac, the bit in red in quotes is from the R&A online rule book, so yes I'm sure.

It was a particularly weak attempt at a windup but I can't believe any of you took him seriously.

smithers, I assure you that many a time in a casual match with friends I have not bothered to mark the ball other than a spot on the green. So no, it was not an attempt at a wind up.

Do you guys really take the game deadly seriously all the time?

a few times in comps i've seen some old boys just use their putter head as a marker to lift wipe and line up the ball.

I have also used the point at the end of my shoe, just make sure you dont move while you clean the ball.

I once used a tee in a comp, but not stuck in the ground, just with the point to the back of the ball with the tee lying on the ground. The damn thing blew across the green. Cant remember what the outcome was but it was matchplay so probably just conceded the hole.

I'm sure we aren't all that serious all the time but then again I wouldn't say it was a matter of being "serious" it's more technically being "correct".

When practising I will often lift clean and replace the ball on the green without marking (and I'll leave the pin in too). I guess doing it "correctly" all the time ingrains the action and helps prevent needless penalties when it counts (as I have seen it done).

I can see how the implication that you don't use markers can be taken the way it was though Mac.

Hmmm Mac, I'm beginning to think you don't actually play golf do you? You just come on here for a bit of attention.

McLaren wrote:..Do you guys really take the game deadly seriously all the time?

It's not really a question of taking it seriously - the game is defined by a set of rules, so if you don't follow those rules then you're not playing golf - you're playing some other game a bit like golf.

However, I more highlighted your error because I assumed you played in the odd competition or handicap qualifying round in which case you need to be aware of this rule so as to not fall foul of it needlessly.

I cannot be accused of taking the game too seriously, but even in a 'bounce' game, if I wanted to clean the ball on the green, I would use either a tee peg or the clubhead of my putter to mark the ball. In a comp, I always use either a proper ball marker (imo a flat disk with a pin to stick it into the ground - could that be construed as testing the ground?) or a thin coin - an old sixpence works very nicely.

I seem to remember Mac, that you were a self professed cat 1 golfer, but have not had a handicap for some time. You could not have got to that stage anywhere that I know of, marking your ball by remembering a slight discolouration on maybe 50+ square yards of grass - preposterous!

I agree with SJ and others - just a windup.

Mac rule no 1 never play golf in pointed shoes(winklepickers)no 2 always use a wooden tee no 3 markyour ball with something ie anything

As I said, only in bounce matches would I not bother to mark the ball properly. I am sure we have all had an issue using a tee peg as a ball marker at some point.

Roller_Coaster wrote:We all have our crosses to bear RayCU!

Fortunately I have the good grace to recognise that QPR are bl00dy awful and I am merely awaiting the bus to take me back to Championship corner. My hopes almost purely focus on avoiding liquidation after 'Arry (and Hughes too) have had a couple of transfer windows.

Still, you can't change these things can you? That and it's almost always a more exciting ride than mid-table obscurity or even winning everything all the time like Man Utd!

After this weekend's results, the wait for the relegation bus won't be a very long one

Nope.

Although with 'arry he might sod the bus and use the chairman's cash on a taxi, or a private jet.