Six Nations: England v Ireland - Post Match Discussion

10 February 2013,
Lansdowne Road, Dublin

Ireland 6 - 12 England

Ireland:

Pens: O'Gara (44'. 57')

England:

Pens: Farrell (2', 28', 63', 65')

Half-time: 0 - 6

Attendance: 51,000

To be fair I don't post much here when sober! I normally read and read and read, get more and more pished off with what people are spouting...go away to cool down and have a few drinks and then come back in a drunken rage

Go honeymonster!

What we need on this thread is more honesty.

The side that adapted better to the conditions won - as simple as that. By and large the head to heads were inconclusive, so far as Lions selection is concerned. The exception was at half-back, especially after Sexton left. Youngs put a fair bit of distance between himself and Murray in the pecking order, I'd guess.

Not sure how much the game, in such conditions, told us about the relative playing strengths of the two sides. It did, I think, reveal a mental toughness in an England team that hasn't been seen for nearly a decade.

I was hoping for a free running game today. But what with the rain, the pitch cutting up every time a scrum was called. I guess how it was played was the best we could hope for,.

England 2 wins from 2 games looking good for the champion ship, or at least
winning the 6ns. Will England win a Grand Slam? Dont know, but if they keep grinding out wins like they did today. Well why not.

England's next game against France, will be a tough game imo. France losing their first 2 games of the tournament will not be happy.

Expect Saint Andre to make changers and play players in the right position.

Englland showed better control and the kicking game was better. It was a day to grind out a win. Great teams need to be able to do this

Agree with TJ, England kicked out of hand much better than Ireland, won every kicking duel, got field position and kicked their goals = victory. Thought Goode was MOM because he was so strong in this aspect of the game.

Healy will quite rightly get 6 weeks IMO, stupid act of thuggery, but that said I feel there has been a slight over reaction from some on her regarding the incident.

Ref very harsh on both sides at the breakdown, constant whistling didnt allow the game to flow, and failed to take into the consideration the conditions, and was eccentric in all other aspects of the game.

Farrell doesn't excite me as a player, but he just does everything well and has such a cool head, working his way onto the plane to Aus. As an Ulster fan I would be happy to hear he had a slight niggle keeping him out of the Heiny QF!

Ogara, odear....looked totally off the pace and out of his depth. The word was he wanted to retire but was talked out of it, so cant blame the man, the blame lies entirely with Kidney. I do not fall into the 'Kidney out' camp, mainly because Im not sure who else could come in and do better, but the fact Ogara is still in the squad when Madigan, Keatley and Jackson are available is a terrrible error on his part.

As an Ireland fan a pretty depressing day

captain carrantuohil wrote:The side that adapted better to the conditions won - as simple as that. By and large the head to heads were inconclusive, so far as Lions selection is concerned. The exception was at half-back, especially after Sexton left. Youngs put a fair bit of distance between himself and Murray in the pecking order, I'd guess.

Not sure how much the game, in such conditions, told us about the relative playing strengths of the two sides. It did, I think, reveal a mental toughness in an England team that hasn't been seen for nearly a decade.

Yep, that's good Cap'n, good sense, right there. Sexton was a massive loss, as was Zebo, that kind of took the wind out of Ireland's sails by virtue of accidents, unfortunate in itself, but it did expose a certain lack of depth in Ireland's squad.

Surely Kidney will now start blooding some youth?

Where did I put that tin hat?

cheers PJ, have just taken a hit from a guy on Welsh thread lol, but guess that's what comes with the territory of posting here. Just a good job I am pished right now otherwiise would be crying into my coco pops instead of my glass of wine!

Anyway have to say I can't disagree with first 4 posts or so on this new thread. England did adapt better and showed better control. Ireland's control to be fair lately has not been good but somehow our attack has come alive when we have good conditions in last cpl of games, almost like we have flipped a coin and can do it the new way but no longer the old way we did. At the end of the day there are things for both sides to work on after todays game. Either side could have won but England were the one's that stepped up and played in the right areas and took their chances after Ireland got a little bit of initiative and were a man up.

Truth is it will be a good thing when Kidney goes and Ireland start playing to their potential more often. It has been really hard to watch Ireland for the last 3 years and today was not much different. We really have underperformed in that time and if only we had a coach like SL I think we'd be in a much better place. You are in a good place England from the point of view of potential and building for a very good WC and an enjoyable/productive few years leading up to that.

Maybe Ireland are the new France?!

logie28 wrote:Agree with TJ, England kicked out of hand much better than Ireland, won every kicking duel, got field position and kicked their goals = victory. Thought Goode was MOM because he was so strong in this aspect of the game.

Healy will quite rightly get 6 weeks IMO, stupid act of thuggery, but that said I feel there has been a slight over reaction from some on her regarding the incident.

Ref very harsh on both sides at the breakdown, constant whistling didnt allow the game to flow, and failed to take into the consideration the conditions, and was eccentric in all other aspects of the game.

Farrell doesn't excite me as a player, but he just does everything well and has such a cool head, working his way onto the plane to Aus. As an Ulster fan I would be happy to hear he had a slight niggle keeping him out of the Heiny QF!

Ogara, odear....looked totally off the pace and out of his depth. The word was he wanted to retire but was talked out of it, so cant blame the man, the blame lies entirely with Kidney. I do not fall into the 'Kidney out' camp, mainly because Im not sure who else could come in and do better, but the fact Ogara is still in the squad when Madigan, Keatley and Jackson are available is a terrrible error on his part.

As an Ireland fan a pretty depressing day

Agree with most of that Logie.

Farrell isn't an inspiring player but already for England looks a more complete player than Wilkinson. His consistency is predictably awesome and exactly the sort of putty that Gatland should want to mould into his starting Lions flyhalf.

I do fall into the 'Kidney out' camp because he stands like Neptune trying to hold back the tides of rugby change, but he doesn't notice that they keep washing over him. Ireland need a coach who will firstly select the right players and secondly get them to play to their strengths.

Kidney just doesn't ever change the approach.

Look at England; last week they played a completely different brand of rugby. This week, totally different gameplan.

We have one gameplan and when it doesn't work, we panic. Hardly a great vote of confidence in the coaches approach.

6-12 watched it 3 times (doesn't get much better.) Great and important win for England. Happy

I'm surprised the decline of ROG hasn't garnered more comment.

I think you saw out there the sad sight of a man who doesn't know when to walk away. He had one moment of class with a spiral punt into the corner, but 99% of his game is gone. Even his kicking from hand is largely mediocre now. He offers next to nothing.

I'm surprised also that no-one has called Heaslip on his decision to go for posts at 12-6. It was our first chance to get a 5m lineout in the second half, we worked really bloody hard to get it and we still needed 3 pens to win the game. That was a moment when your Captain needs to stand up and make the call, and we didn't. Heaslip in general was poor. Not impressed.

If we had the 5m lineout, the crowd picks up and the team picks up on that- we didn't deserve anything from that game the way we played, but had we just gone for it then who knows...

We would have mugged them had we managed to create something. If there was ever a 12-6 hammering, this was it.

To be fair Notch, that gameplan has blown England away with impunity over the last decade, home and away, but today it did look a bit tired.

Firstly and foremostly, England stood up today, it wasn't great coaching or a great gameplan, but more about a bunch of players who were willing to stand up and be counted for each other, right in the face of it.

The real problem for Ireland is, as you say, a lack of alternatives, it's not just the gameplan or coaching though, it's the players too and Ireland looked terribly weak off the bench.

Kidney may have dallied too long with a few players based on reputations gone by, but I can't see a host of players ready to replace the current incumbents, it will have to be a case of going backwards now in order to move forwards tomorrow.

Is there a strategic level appointment opportunity at the IRFU for someone like Connor O'Shea?

Heaslip didn't look so good today to be fair. Not so sure about ROG is that really him done? Thought it was it a tight game with England edging it. England did well to play the game they did.

Totally agree regarding the pen decision on 70mins Notch, we had to go into the corner. If we were lucky we may have got another chance for points in the last 10 mins, but nearly certainly only another kick, so in fact that kick for goal was already just playing for a draw. It had to go in the corner, it was our only real chance for victory.

Was screaming at the TV at the time, but Im also pretty sure I saw Bod involved with the decision and pointing at the posts, so not sure we can place all the blame on Heaslip

ROG was done about 3 years ago Stub, what we saw today was the inevitable disaster that had been waiting to happen. Kidney 100 per cent culpable in this

Shame - great player once. Still makes me nervous..

I've got to disagree, that gameplan was tailor made to beat Ireland. They nullified every strength of our game. I always thought we would lose unless we got a lucky bounce or intercept or something, from about 5 minutes in. They played perfectly- it was the fact we were outclassed tactically that made it a hammering. It's the fact it's so easy to nullify us that made it a humiliation. It's embarrassing when we have slow ball in the opposition 22 to watch us pass the ball to a collection of static, under-powered runners who take the ball isloated into contact. Not even pods of forwards like. Just single, isolated players.

The bench is as good as Irish benches usually are. We inevitably have less strength in depth. There are younger guys in most problem positions barring tighthead- 5/6, 10, 12 etc. We have some great talents but still very raw. What we really lack is physicality behind the scrum and ball carriers in the pack. If we had Ferris back it would be massive, but we lack a Tuilagi or North or Bastareuad who can take contact on their own terms.

Fianl point; in a professionally run organisation, there would be a great case to be made for Conor O'Shea coming into the set-up. This is the IRFU. He's persona non grata for working with the England underage set-up.

If that sounds incredibly foolish, petty, short-sighted and unprofessional thats because it is. Say what you like about Kidney, but he's an inoffensive yes-man and I sense thats what they want! The last time we had a coach who actually tried to drag the IRFU kicking and screaming into the professional era we fired him despite having a better record than Kidney does now... whatever happened to Warren Gatland?

There was something about - 'England get yellow so we can win it' then England didnt just roll over they came back stronger and the bite really went out of Ireland. They were more going through the motions after that.

I think the England bench had real impact too. Shame part of that was Lawes's head on Kearney....

On this day the only Irish sub that had any impact was Earls

To be fair the penalty decision with 10 mins to go wasn't completely clear cut. I personally wanted us to go for the corner as we needed some territory and momentum badly but I can completely understand the thinking to go for the posts - that way a try in the corner without a conversion would win it.

But like I say I wanted us to kick for the corner and wasn't happy at the time. We really needed to put pressure on England and build some momentum and that was a good opportunity to do so.

At the same time we had 70 mins before that to do something and we failed so am not a happy bunny whatever way you look at it

Notch wrote:I've got to disagree, that gameplan was tailor made to beat Ireland. They nullified every strength of our game. I always thought we would lose unless we got a lucky bounce or intercept or something, from about 5 minutes in. They played perfectly- it was the fact we were outclassed tactically that made it a hammering. It's the fact it's so easy to nullify us that made it a humiliation. It's embarrassing when we have slow ball in the opposition 22 to watch us pass the ball to a collection of static, under-powered runners who take the ball isloated into contact. Not even pods of forwards like. Just single, isolated players.

The bench is as good as Irish benches usually are. We inevitably have less strength in depth. There are younger guys in most problem positions barring tighthead- 5/6, 10, 12 etc. We have some great talents but still very raw.

Fianl point; in a professionally run organisation, there would be a great case to be made for Conor O'Shea coming into the set-up. This is the IRFU. He's persona non grata for working with the England underage set-up.

If that sounds incredibly petty, self-defeating and unprofessional thats because it is. Say what you like about Kidney, but he's an inoffensive yes-man and I sense thats what they want! The last time we had a coach who actually tried to drag the IRFU kicking and screaming into the professional era we fired him despite having a better record than Kidney does now... whatever happened to Warren Gatland?

Notch - it wasn't that bad was it? Thought it was really close and yes England chose their game well but Ireland were always in it. I reckon this is a sensible grounded England team which we haven't seen for a while...

Oy! Hands off Conor O'Shea. He has unfinished business in South West London that will take him several years to finish.

On it's own, it was bad but not that bad stub. But it's like a broken record at this stage.

Same problems for the last 3 years. Same weaknesses, same things not working, same players not delivering. It was obvious we weren't going to score a try within 10 minutes and obvious we weren't going to win when Sexton got injured.

Ireland deserve credit for the ticker they showed to get back to 6-6, but we were/are tactically inept.

Notch wrote:I've got to disagree, that gameplan was tailor made to beat Ireland. They nullified every strength of our game. I always thought we would lose unless we got a lucky bounce or intercept or something, from about 5 minutes in. They played perfectly- it was the fact we were outclassed tactically that made it a hammering. It's the fact it's so easy to nullify us that made it a humiliation. It's embarrassing when we have slow ball in the opposition 22 to watch us pass the ball to a collection of static, under-powered runners who take the ball isloated into contact. Not even pods of forwards like. Just single, isolated players.
The bench is as good as Irish benches usually are. We inevitably have less strength in depth. There are younger guys in most problem positions barring tighthead- 5/6, 10, 12 etc. We have some great talents but still very raw. What we really lack is physicality behind the scrum and ball carriers in the pack. If we had Ferris back it would be massive, but we lack a Tuilagi or North or Bastareuad who can take contact on their own terms.

Fianl point; in a professionally run organisation, there would be a great case to be made for Conor O'Shea coming into the set-up. This is the IRFU. He's persona non grata for working with the England underage set-up.

If that sounds incredibly foolish, petty, short-sighted and unprofessional thats because it is. Say what you like about Kidney, but he's an inoffensive yes-man and I sense thats what they want! The last time we had a coach who actually tried to drag the IRFU kicking and screaming into the professional era we fired him despite having a better record than Kidney does now... whatever happened to Warren Gatland?

Sorry but IMO Ireland's problem at the minute is getting into an attacking position (ie the opp 22) in the first place. It's not what we do once we are there (unless we keep dropping it like first half). Our problem is the inability to play a game that get's us playing in the right areas of the pitch.

Also regards our bench, are you thinking of the 90's? I remember the lack of depth then. Now it's not so much of a prob but has been compounded by injuries and poor selection. The only area where your comment actually makes sense is if you're talking about tighthead. If you want to talk about centre or OH or somewhere else then fair enough, talk about selection or injuries, but if you think we lack basic strength in depth in those areas ur talking a pile of balls

We do lack depth compared to England and France, no doubt about it. I was referring to Irish benches in the professional era. We have a few honest triers.

You should look at what happened when we got into the opposition 22 in this game and the South Africa game if you think we have a gameplan for attacking off slow ball!

Honeymonster, Ireland spent a long time in the England 22 in both halves - I think it was over a quarter of the total game. They were getting into good positions but unable to capitalise - in part because of the sheer organisation, discipline, commitment and bloody-mindedness of England's defence, but also because they didn't seem to have any good ideas.

Notch - don't think that England ever really looked like scoring a try either. Ireland are a fine team who probably could be better without DC but still a fine team. Thought that BOD looked quiet today, most probably distracted. Anyway good luck for the rest - don't think anyone will look forward to playing you.

sorry just re-read and thought you said "The bench isn't as good as Irish benches usually are". Therefore I made my point. But having said that I think my point still stands because our bench is actually better than it usually is or has been in the past, or at least it should be because we do have strength in depth barring tighthead. Everywhere apart from TH I think we have excellent strength in depth. Is just DK's inability to give some of that depth a chance I guess, not that it isn't there

My thoughts after just about surviving the outcome of that match:

England deserved that win, Ireland just dropped the ball so many times, but the amount of times we kicked it straight to the back 3 before even trying to run the ball or carry was frustrating. Lineout was awful until Hartley came on. I love Chris Robshaw and we showed guts in winning that in Dublin esp with the yellow, even if Ireland and ROG helped us out. Missed too many tackles too. Ob second watch, Haskell deserves his card. Tool.

Who played Second Row when Lawes was off? I was distracted and never worked it out.

Healy deserves a ban, but I won't go so far as to question his character- worse things have gone unpunished and I don't think he meant to maim Cole or took pleasure in it, his brain just seemed to completely stop functioning. Hope Cole is ok as that is a loss we don't want to see...

Chequered, 'the tool' went to 2nd row. And England did better when he was off the pitch, says everything about the most overrated player in the world. england have 20 better backrows than Haskell they should be using

Notch wrote:We do lack depth compared to England and France, no doubt about it. I was referring to Irish benches in the professional era. We have a few honest triers.

You should look at what happened when we got into the opposition 22 in this game and the South Africa game if you think we have a gameplan for attacking off slow ball!

Well obviously gaud ur not talking to a primary school class, the point is that with better selection Ireland could have close to or as strong a bench as England. After all you're only allowed a 23 man squad, if it was a 100 man squad then yes of course ur right. Like I said the place where Ireland are weak in this regard is tighthead. My point is it isn't a case of being traditionally lacking in depth but a case of selection more than anything.

Poorfour wrote:Honeymonster, Ireland spent a long time in the England 22 in both halves - I think it was over a quarter of the total game. They were getting into good positions but unable to capitalise - in part because of the sheer organisation, discipline, commitment and bloody-mindedness of England's defence, but also because they didn't seem to have any good ideas.

A long time in England's 22 in the 2nd half? You quite sure about that? Sorry I don't think so. Yes we had time there in the first half but like I said in my original post that you are replying to, we kept dropping the ball. And by the way if you're going to come back with ....'Well you had as much ball in an attacking area as England'....that wasn't what my post was about It was about Ireland not playing in the right areas. To be fair England didn't have too much ball in Ireland 22 either but they got penalties and kicked their points every time they had the chance

I was responding to another posters point about our bench. Catch yourself on.

Notch wrote:

I was responding to another posters point about our bench. Catch yourself on.

Lol fair enough apologies. Is just that your post came straight after my post which was about the Irish bench and was directly quoting ur earlier post. Hardly a need to catch myself on is there?

Unless of course you'd prefer it if I didn't question your wonderful wisdom Notch?

Irishhoneymonster wrote:Unless of course you preferred I didn't question your wonderful wisdom Notch?

You're being confrontational about it, we can have a conversation without acting the maggot...

Something I haven't seen really mentioned that had me gasping at times was the sheer intensity of that game. I was utterly glued to to it - less than a converted try between the sides all game and I thought we'd lost it with the sin binning of Haskell. Gripping stuff if you had any idea what you were watching - rarely have a seen a tight five battle where the advantage swung so dramatically and ended so evenly. England have come off second best against that sort of Irish intensity before (thinks GAA). A very important win for this squad for sure.

Just love this competition. Who'd have had France 0/2 and who'd be that surprised if they turned up in champagne mode at Twickers simply and solely because no-one expects them to? And you know, if they did I'd still think this squad could beat them.

Notch wrote:

Irishhoneymonster wrote:Unless of course you preferred I didn't question your wonderful wisdom Notch?

You're being confrontational about it, we can have a conversation without acting the maggot...

Well your conversation as you put it was with someone else and I should catch myself on. Not sure that I have begun or continued any confrontation here. To be fair mate that was you and now you're continuing in that vein by calling me a maggot. I'll tell you what, chill out and bring your conversation back to Rugby And if you're still wondering who brought this conversation in this direction, have a look back through it

When Lawes went off I'm pretty sure Haskell packed down at lock for the scrums with, 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Waldrom making up the back row.

From an England fans point of view one good thing at the moment is that we're finally developing some depth as seen by the difference in the benches.

When you compared the Ireland bench to the players they would be replacing pretty much across the board it would be a big blow if (as was the case today) a change needed to be made. Whilst the Irish starting front row is strong, especially with how well Best is playing, the back up is lacking. The same in the half backs IMO - whilst ROG has been a great servant to Irish rugby those conditions are what he made a reputation excelling in and he really didn't show up well today.

Whereas finally the England bench is looking strong with Hartley shoring up the line-out after Youngs struggled, Vunipola carrying on Marlers good work, Lawes making a good albeit brief impact and Tuilagi a great guy to bring on in the second half - though he didn't do much today. Add to that Care and Flood being good half back replacements and the squad strength is really promising! Let's just hope that Lancaster etc continue to develop that depth as well as find the right team from the mix.

Notch wrote:I'm surprised the decline of ROG hasn't garnered more comment.

I think you saw out there the sad sight of a man who doesn't know when to walk away. He had one moment of class with a spiral punt into the corner, but 99% of his game is gone. Even his kicking from hand is largely mediocre now. He offers next to nothing.

I'm surprised also that no-one has called Heaslip on his decision to go for posts at 12-6. It was our first chance to get a 5m lineout in the second half, we worked really bloody hard to get it and we still needed 3 pens to win the game. That was a moment when your Captain needs to stand up and make the call, and we didn't. Heaslip in general was poor. Not impressed.

Notch - I only caught the last half hour but I can certainly comment on these two players.

It says so much about what ROG has achieved in the game in the past that he is still being used now, despite being a husk of his former self. I heard that he is the only player in any squad to have played in every 6Nations since it has had six participants and that shows astonishing longevity. I would still bet the farm on his ability to come on with 10 to go and crack over a winning drop goal but that cannot be enough to warrant a bench place at international level any more.

Everything good that I've seen Munster do this season (including and especially taking down Ulster in December) had Keatley involved and I cannot believe that he wouldn't continue to grow at international level either. I really hope to hell that Sexton isn't seriously injured but it always shows the brittle edge in relying on star players when the next in line isn't even close in terms of quality. Deccie should have started planning for a reasonable Sexton replacement for the future during the NZ series.

If JJ Hanrahan is the future at 10 (and it looks like he is), then if Keatley remains the Marmite of fly halves, why not get the youngfeller on the bench? ROG's time has passed and he looked completely bereft of confidence apart from anything else.

In terms of Heaslip, he's done some things well but it's clear that he's not 100% yet and he has struggled uncharacteristically to contain more spritely back rows. It's obvious that he misses the support of Ferris on the pitch. Having Johnny Beattie running at him and Rob Harley in his face for another 80 minutes will be a different test in a fortnight or so.

I just hope that form is considered in the context of the tournament as a whole. As Robshaw has shown, all captains make mistakes with tactical calls but that's part of the learning process. Richei McCaw gave an interview with Rugby World where he said that being cautious instead of bold in his first season captaining the Crusaders meant that they lost at least 3 matches due to wrong calls that he made. Apart from Eales, nobody's perfect.

Notch wrote: ... there would be a great case to be made for Conor O'Shea coming into the set-up..

I know this is an international thread, but as a Quins fan i have to completely and totally disagree with you Notch. As a DoR we put up with him, as we are a charitable club, but he really is totally over-rated and you wouldn't benefit a jot from having in an Ireland set up....






























... That'll fool him

Very disappointing performance from Ireland. As a side we seem to panic when we can't get on the front foot through our ball carriers. Descision making was poor across the board - ROG trying to run the ball out of our 22 and giving BOD a hospital pass in the second half, Sexton kicking away turnover ball when we had a turnover and over lap, Kearney trying to run too often, Gilroy not running enough..... it was a shambles.

Set piece was poor in the first half and we weren't able to turn the advantage we had in the second into points due to awful handling and poor descision making. The maul worked well but again lack of composure meant we didn't gain full advantage from this.

Heaslip was awful as captain and none of the leaders showed any composure and against a much younger and less experienced England side. O'Brien did show up and was comfortably our best player but O'Mahoney and Healy lost their heads altogether and the pack generally were bullied by Englands.

England were very impressive. Their defence was always comfortable, bar Earls two breaks down the left wing when Ashton was ball watching.

They played the conditions very well, stuck to their game plan. Their carrying was very impressive with the forwards attacking in numbers and offloading out of the tackle very effectively. We struggled to deal with this and England were able to get across the gainline effectively whereas our carriers were static and predictable allowing England to knock us backwards.

Englands Kicking game was much better and with superior carrying and handling they were always going to win and had the conditions been better I think they would have won by more such is the gulf in class between the sides now.

Ireland need to go back to the drawing board. We have improved from last season but there is a lack of leadership in the side and an inability to change the gameplan when the tactics aren't working. At 6 all the game was in the balance but it was England who showed the composure with 14 men whereas we just lost the plot.

Time to drop Heaslip, D'arcy and Kearney. Bring Marshall in at 12, Fitzgerald in for Zebo and put Earls (who looked good yesterday) at 15. O'Mahoney or Coughlan to 8 and bring Henry in at 7.

Stevenson in for the massively overrated McCarthy and Jackson/Madigan and Marshall on the bench.

Another point is why with a few minutes to go and one score behind was Kidney emptying the bench? Surely this just ran the clock down and disrupted any momentum we had.

Youngs and Farrell were really impressive and played their opposite numbers off the park. England look a shoe in for the title now unless the Welsh can turn them over. Ireland have some tough fixtures now and based on that display there is a fair chance we could lose them all.

My confidence has taken abit of a knock since this game.. England won ,but i feel as though its a bit of an anti climax!

However I think both teams shouldnt be to disheartened.. Our combined defenses were on another level to the rest of the teams in this comp.. We beat ireland because we didnt give away pens in key areas..However we won penalities in areas to let OF take the glory

Lets hope for good weather going forward. i cant take another game like that

My confidence has gone up from this game.

England have shown that they can play an all running game and score plenty of tries. They've now also shown that the forwards and 10 can take control of a game, grip it by the throat and do exactly enough to win it without ever having to panic and go for the hail mary passes or money shot 50m+ kicks.

They're just cool and collected, they know what needs to be done and if it isn't 7's rugby then tough tittie, deal with it. History will record this as a win and the smiles on the players and coaches faces say the rest.

As to Farrel he isn't inspiring in a Carter/Sexton kind of way. But then he's a very different animal. He's inspiring in a never back down, never look ruffled, never let the opposition have a rest kind of way. Yes he won't break from his own half and go under the posts, but he will kick from his own half and force a lineout in your 22, again and again and again.

Watching the game away from the real-time tension I actually thought England were more comfortable than the score-line suggests. We had to soak up a lot of pressure but Ireland didn’t really look like they’d breach our defence, even when we were down to 14 men. Manu’s missed opportunity was a bit disappointing, I know the ball bounce badly for him, but he hesitated a bit and didn’t seem to commit fully to taking it – maybe down to lack of match fitness.

Having said that the team stats are interesting. England lost 3 scrums (to Ireland’s 0) – not sure if these were down to Cole’s ankle/Haskell at lock/14 men -, lost 4 LOs (to 3), conceded 14 penalties (to 11), missed 11 tackles (to 3), and made 0 line breaks (to 3). Funny things – stats. Mind you the BBC stats don’t include handling errors (England ~5 to Ireland ~500).

I am OF's biggest fan Yappy, if it came across i was knocking him i wasnt!!

George Carlin wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm surprised the decline of ROG hasn't garnered more comment.

I think you saw out there the sad sight of a man who doesn't know when to walk away. He had one moment of class with a spiral punt into the corner, but 99% of his game is gone. Even his kicking from hand is largely mediocre now. He offers next to nothing.

I'm surprised also that no-one has called Heaslip on his decision to go for posts at 12-6. It was our first chance to get a 5m lineout in the second half, we worked really bloody hard to get it and we still needed 3 pens to win the game. That was a moment when your Captain needs to stand up and make the call, and we didn't. Heaslip in general was poor. Not impressed.

Notch - I only caught the last half hour but I can certainly comment on these two players.

It says so much about what ROG has achieved in the game in the past that he is still being used now, despite being a husk of his former self. I heard that he is the only player in any squad to have played in every 6Nations since it has had six participants and that shows astonishing longevity. I would still bet the farm on his ability to come on with 10 to go and crack over a winning drop goal but that cannot be enough to warrant a bench place at international level any more.

Everything good that I've seen Munster do this season (including and especially taking down Ulster in December) had Keatley involved and I cannot believe that he wouldn't continue to grow at international level either. I really hope to hell that Sexton isn't seriously injured but it always shows the brittle edge in relying on star players when the next in line isn't even close in terms of quality. Deccie should have started planning for a reasonable Sexton replacement for the future during the NZ series.

If JJ Hanrahan is the future at 10 (and it looks like he is), then if Keatley remains the Marmite of fly halves, why not get the youngfeller on the bench? ROG's time has passed and he looked completely bereft of confidence apart from anything else.

In terms of Heaslip, he's done some things well but it's clear that he's not 100% yet and he has struggled uncharacteristically to contain more spritely back rows. It's obvious that he misses the support of Ferris on the pitch. Having Johnny Beattie running at him and Rob Harley in his face for another 80 minutes will be a different test in a fortnight or so.

I just hope that form is considered in the context of the tournament as a whole. As Robshaw has shown, all captains make mistakes with tactical calls but that's part of the learning process. Richei McCaw gave an interview with Rugby World where he said that being cautious instead of bold in his first season captaining the Crusaders meant that they lost at least 3 matches due to wrong calls that he made. Apart from Eales, nobody's perfect.

It's a 15 man game and no matter what the decision the rest of the team have to get behind it and make it the right decision. You can't put a loss or win down to one wrong or right call. Unless you're the press looking for a sound bite...

Before he gets slated much more remember Heaslip was very good last week, and aside from appalling technique under the high ball was alright yesterday (certainly better then his opposite no8). Ferris is needed badly as the posturing guy at 6 looked uninterested in playing rugby. When is Ferris back anyone?

rodders wrote:Very disappointing performance from Ireland. As a side we seem to panic when we can't get on the front foot through our ball carriers. Descision making was poor across the board - ROG trying to run the ball out of our 22 and giving BOD a hospital pass in the second half, Sexton kicking away turnover ball when we had a turnover and over lap, Kearney trying to run too often, Gilroy not running enough..... it was a shambles.

Set piece was poor in the first half and we weren't able to turn the advantage we had in the second into points due to awful handling and poor descision making. The maul worked well but again lack of composure meant we didn't gain full advantage from this.

Heaslip was awful as captain and none of the leaders showed any composure and against a much younger and less experienced England side. O'Brien did show up and was comfortably our best player but O'Mahoney and Healy lost their heads altogether and the pack generally were bullied by Englands.

England were very impressive. Their defence was always comfortable, bar Earls two breaks down the left wing when Ashton was ball watching.

They played the conditions very well, stuck to their game plan. Their carrying was very impressive with the forwards attacking in numbers and offloading out of the tackle very effectively. We struggled to deal with this and England were able to get across the gainline effectively whereas our carriers were static and predictable allowing England to knock us backwards.

Englands Kicking game was much better and with superior carrying and handling they were always going to win and had the conditions been better I think they would have won by more such is the gulf in class between the sides now.

Ireland need to go back to the drawing board. We have improved from last season but there is a lack of leadership in the side and an inability to change the gameplan when the tactics aren't working. At 6 all the game was in the balance but it was England who showed the composure with 14 men whereas we just lost the plot.

Time to drop Heaslip, D'arcy and Kearney. Bring Marshall in at 12, Fitzgerald in for Zebo and put Earls (who looked good yesterday) at 15. O'Mahoney or Coughlan to 8 and bring Henry in at 7.

Stevenson in for the massively overrated McCarthy and Jackson/Madigan and Marshall on the bench.

Another point is why with a few minutes to go and one score behind was Kidney emptying the bench? Surely this just ran the clock down and disrupted any momentum we had.

Youngs and Farrell were really impressive and played their opposite numbers off the park. England look a shoe in for the title now unless the Welsh can turn them over. Ireland have some tough fixtures now and based on that display there is a fair chance we could lose them all.

Rodders, yestaerday's game was one of those where it was actually better to play territory and not have ball in hand, the number of errors just mounted for the Irish. I was listening to John Mitchell at half time, and he was of the opinion that england controlled the first half even though Ireland created the opportunities and had the territory. England just sat back, kept their discimpline and waited for the errors. When they got in range of the goal, they kicked their penalties and then just waited for the next error.

If you look closely at the frst half, Ireland were putting in the numbers at the breakdown and got the momentum, but England were just readying the defences.

BY the time the second half came, england did much of the same. Ireland looked like they were spent and didn't know what to do. O'Gara was the right man to play territory, but his execution was very poor.