Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[oldshanker]

First topic message reminder :

I agree Digs - what I was commenting on was not their lack of invention, but their lack of cohesion. They did not get the basics right, the least a back has to do is commit his opposite number, which becomes more important against the 'drift' defence, and then follow up and support. This was not happening yesterday, apart from Chris ashton on occasions.

I have not seen Goode play in his club matches, but on a number of occasions, he caught the ball deep, began to run, hesitated and then was caught without any support. I can't remember ever seeing Ben Foden caught like that. It is yet another sign of a lack of cohesion in the backs.

Of course, this probably is all due to the fact they are a relatively new squad and should come together the more they play together. But on the face of it, I think yesterday was a fair showing against a team that in my opinion is still there to be taken and will possibly only get one win in this series.

[mystiroakey]

SR you just dislike for the sake of it pal..

cole is a consitant pro and if only the other english footy wrongons could produce game after game with all the trappings and annoyances of being a PL man sausage

-------

Is it bang out of order to think there is something up with Bradley wiggins..I reakon he loves a bit of the naughty.. He is tainted.. we will find out in a few years and noone will be suprised((btw thtis is my opinion- its not fact!- dont wanna get sued!)

England beat Ireland in a horrid game of rugby.. However a win is a win is a win!!

England on the road to the GS and on the road to be the most hated team in the world again!

Its snowing.. Cant be bothered to go out today..

Excuse my bipolar post..

Just getting that of me mind..

[super_realist]

Oakey,

Cole is a hateful person full stop, just like his ghastly ex wife.

He's a very good left back, not as good as he was at Arsenal, certainly not the best in the world, but very good and pretty consistent, but that doesn't mean you have to like him. He is a man sausage.

[McLaren]

Are there any Catholics on here?

[mystiroakey]

Not me.,. I hear God is looking for a new pope. Decent job as a catholic and all that. I wonder what it pays?

[McLaren]

Not me.,. I hear God is looking for a new pope. Decent job as a catholic and all that. I wonder what it pays?

Not sure what he is paid but I wonder if he will be buried in a gold coffin?

[mystiroakey]

gold coffins and a virgin......... (credit card)

i presume

[super_realist]

Are there any Catholics on here?

Mac, I don't think there is anyone stupid enough to even believe in god on this forum.

[incontinentia]

Are there any Catholics on here?

yeah, what's up mac attack?

[super_realist]

YOu actually believe in God inco?

[barragan]

you should read 'angels game' by zafon s_r. i guarantee you'd expand your already extensive rhetoric on the subject far more enjoyable than a dawkins yawn

[incontinentia]

I'm not sure super, but i was raised a catholic. Somethimes i think there can't be a god. Other times the order in nature makes me think there might be one. Do you think life happens by chance? Perhaps mother nature is a god, i often wonder what is the intelligent force that drives evolution.

[gaelgowfer]

Catholicism is full of ritual and if one has been raised on it then it must be difficult to expunge completely such a strong belief system.

[super_realist]

If you believe in God, you might as well believe in tooth fairies, bogey men, leprechauns (sorry Inco) and the loch ness monster, because there is precisely the same amount of evidence to prove their existence. i.e none.

How can a rational person believe in something with no basis in fact, and furthermore, what on earth good can it do them. You control your destiny, and when you die, you die.

What a waste of time religion is.

[gaelgowfer]

Oh I don't know about that s_r. I'm sure this 'church' would welcome folk like you.

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/scotland/atheist-church-set-to-come-to-scotland-1-2784371

God help them though!

[JAS]

If you believe in God, you might as well believe in tooth fairies, bogey men, leprechauns (sorry Inco) and the loch ness monster, because there is precisely the same amount of evidence to prove their existence. i.e none.

How can a rational person believe in something with no basis in fact, and furthermore, what on earth good can it do them. You control your destiny, and when you die, you die.

What a waste of time religion is.

I think the missing word you're looking for is faith. I don't have it myself (from a religious perspective) but I can see that some do...they may well be completely wrong but if having faith that something exists in the shape of some force for good then fair play to them.

Where it all goes wrong for religion is the nutters that want to blow you to bits if you don't share the same faith as them.

[super_realist]

Sounds like a bit of an oxymoron Gael, surely an Aetheist Church is almost religion in itself.

[super_realist]

Jas, Faith is just the acceptable word for "Insanity".

I could claim to have "Faith" that Shane Lowry would win The Masters, win the London Marathon and shatter the Olympic Pol Vault record by 3 metres, but conventional intelligence would say that was madness. Religion is exactly the same.

[JAS]

And on the Vatican breakfast menu tomorrow......

Ex Benedict

...I'll get my coat!!!

[gaelgowfer]

So then s_r, at what point in your life did an atheist epiphany strike you?

[super_realist]

Day one Gael, I have never ever believed in a God.

[gaelgowfer]

Day one Gael, I have never ever believed in a God.

Why? Something (or someone) must have influenced you to believe there was no God.

[mystiroakey]

I am agnostic. I personally think that is the most rationale stance...

Let people live how they want to.. No real judgement from me..

[super_realist]

Why would they need to. You get bombarded with religion in school when you are young, even by parents and grandparents. It's natural to question that.

You aren't born with an instilled belief in a fictional deity.

[gaelgowfer]

Fair enough s_r but given your stance is that you believe ... absolutely ... there is no God ... which you can't prove ... then one could argue that you are following a belief system.

I'm with oakey here. On the basis that no-one can prove one way or the other then I guess I will probably go to my agnostic grave ... still wondering.

[super_realist]

Of course I can't prove it, but there is no scientific basis in fact for there being a god that it isn't my belief or faith, but in the lack of facts or proof, and I don't believe anything in which there is no factual basis, so therefore I'm not following a belief system at all.

There is also the oxymoron of religion being based on creation, in which case, what created God? Ask any of those doorknockers that and they are flummoxed.

[mystiroakey]

I am agnostic to whether there is a creator.. I am alot more scepitical about the blible or the koran or religions, etc(but not completly against them all.. Is there real proof either way)

We are going so far with science these days- that ironically enough science could prove there is or at least could be a creator!!!

They may be a possiblity that we could create new life!!

[super_realist]

The worst of all Oakey are those mad ones who believe in creationism, don't accept evolution and who believe the earth is 6000 years old.

[mystiroakey]

or maybe i have watched to much sci fi!!

[mystiroakey]

Do you believe in other life forms SR.. (in another part of the galaxy

[super_realist]

I'm sure given the vastness of the universe and variety of conditions that abound that there is certainly the probability Oakey.

I'd have to see the proof though to actually "believe" it.

[mystiroakey]

could it be possible to build a sun around another planet, make the moon around to function the way ours does.. then just stick a load of wildlife on it- and then look back in a million years and see what happens!

Is everything possible.. Could we build a planet with different physic laws..

Then could we be the creationalist Gods...

My mind has gone nuts today..(i think its because i watched the tree of life last night- its sent my mind racing!)

Basically the way i look at it(when my feet are on the ground) is that anything is possible and unless i see it its not proven!

[incontinentia]

What about love?! Do you believe in it or is it just a chemical reaction in the brain? Science would have us believe love is a mental illness!

[super_realist]

No it wouldn't. There is plenty rational scientific explanation for love and pair bonding.
There is no such fact or basis in science for the existence of a GOd.

[mystiroakey]

I knew my post would draw a blank lol.

anyway - love , ermm tough one.. surely love off our family is learnt(and i dont wanna say that this is in anyway worthless- because even though its learnt its still the most important thing in life!

Love in a relationship! Have we evolved or genetical made to love to provide a stable place for our offspring..

SR you say there is an explanation other than 'learnt' for loving someone else..

And i agree you might be right- pairing up seems natural and aids the longlevity of humans..

However what about gays!

Do they love each other- is it possible to love someone of the same sex that isnt family or a childhood friend- that in my mind we have learnt to love through society and the bond from our parents at a young age..(ie we didnt come out of the womb loving our mother father or sisters, brothers!)

[incontinentia]

Roakey- i imagine it would be impossible to build a sun, or a system like you describe.

[mystiroakey]

yeah maybe lol..

[barragan]

in 'angels game' (i mentioned above) zafon's premise for developing a thread of the plot is that biology forms the structures of religions. the human's instict and need for survival dictates the fabrication of religious structures pointing to eternal life. interesting reading - good novel.

[mystiroakey]

yeah i think thats a point. I mean many people have horrible lifes- why go on if thats all there is!

[super_realist]

There is some excellent Youtube snippets by Stephen Fry on the pointlessness of religion.

[navyblueshorts]

And on the Vatican breakfast menu tomorrow......

Ex Benedict

...I'll get my coat!!!

moment!

Very good JAS. The day is ending somewhat brighter than before.

[navyblueshorts]

...They may be a possiblity that we could create new life!!

We can. We can artificially synthesise a bacterial genome and create a new species of bacterium. Look up some of Craig Venter's stuff.

[Seve_The_Great]

For once i whole heartedly agree with Super_Realist on this one. It has always baffled me how people of high intelligence can believe in something which is so beyond the realms of possibilty. The scenario that i always like to think of when debating the existence of God is the occurrence of babies who live for a short period of time. If a child is born and lives for ten seconds before it unfortunately dies what happens to it? Does it go to Heaven or Hell? They have been human for those ten seconds just as i have been for twenty years. Surely it has not lived long enough to commit the so called act of sin and so therefore goes straight to Heaven. This is surely unfair to the rest of us however as we have lived long enough to commit sin and will be judged upon it? Then of course i see children who are born with holes in their hearts( or other serious ailments) that live painful and abnormal lives and then die at a very early age. Surely no so called omnipotent God would allow this to happen?

[mystiroakey]

Seve dude.. Your kind of right.

But i dont get all this 'how could god allow that to happen business'

if a god existed- why does he have to be nice!

[Seve_The_Great]

Myst:

I can see what you're saying but surely allowing such suffering to occur to those who have done nothing to deserve it isn't just being not nice but is evil in every sense of the word? Of course such unfortunate circumstance like poverty and War are in the main man made but i could do nothing about my first born child being born with a severe disability for instance. I was incredibly lucky to be born healthy and without such an impediment. What gives me the right to be born normally without a disabilty than those who have been? Surely a divine a creator would give us all a fair chance in life to begin with? The sad thing is of course a Catholic parent of a disabled child would then go on to pray for their child and also apologise for their own sins.

[pedro]

So Papa Ratzi resigned. Maybe a wise decision? After all he's got a boss you don't want to get fired by...

[McLaren]

I'm not sure super, but i was raised a catholic. Somethimes i think there can't be a god. Other times the order in nature makes me think there might be one. Do you think life happens by chance? Perhaps mother nature is a god, i often wonder what is the intelligent force that drives evolution.

Do you think life happens by chance?

No, it happens by evolution. The order of nature is perfectly explained by darwins theory of evolution. I dont suppose you doubt the equations of newton so why would you doubt the basics of evolution. If you dont get evolution you have probably failed to grasp the sheer magnitude of time over which it happened.


I would hope to express it in slightly more intelligent terms but for once I pretty much agree with super. Religion does too much harm to be given any respect, from the simple but despicable act of telling children they can end up in hell to stopping africa developing into modern nations.

[oldshanker]

I don't necessarily disagree with you Mac - I just feel that you should be cautious of putting forward science as the absolute answer to everything. After all, as far as I am aware, all scientists from Newton to Darwin to Rutherford to Einstein, seemed to have had a habit of ignoring any results that did not fit into their nice neatly packaged equations! QED indeed!

[McLaren]

oldshanker

I dont suppose any of them would have survived had experiment not backed them up.

[oldshanker]

of course you are right in that, but I merely proposed that they are not necessarily the answer to everything and all science tends to be taken as fact until later science disproves it.

[McLaren]

I am sure almost all we understand at the moment will be superseded as humans develop better theories to describe the nature of the universe far into the future. This thought only makes it more ludicrous that someone would use religion to fill any gaps in human understanding of the universe.

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