back row for the lions

Is it just me or does the back row selection for the lions the hardest postions to pick, even with the injured players.

Robshaw
Sean O'Brian
Sam Warburton
Tipric
Tom wood
Steven Ferris
Kelly brown
Jonnie Beattie
toby faletau
Dan lydiate
Jamie heaslip

Any others I have missed and add your opinions for and you they should be picked and shouldn't

It's difficult because I don't think there are enough, if any, opensides who are in form. Not who are on Pocock's level anyway.

The backrow and its depth, who will and won't go has been doing the rounds on here for ages and you have still missed the likes of Denton, Rennie, Morgan and Ryan Jones.

I agree there's no out and out 7 sam Warburton of the world cup and grandslam would be a good fight with pocock but im struggling to see any out and out ball winning 7s

Don't compete 7 against 7 with Poccock, that's going into the breakdown on Australia's terms and is very very foolish!

Tell that to Barclay and Rennie who both got the better of Pocock in the summer.

But wouldn't 7 on 7 be the better way at least you have a 50/50 chance of having the ball rather than letting pocock just coming in taking the ball and letting on Aussie backs rip back lines apart

ChequeredJersey wrote:Don't compete 7 against 7 with Poccock, that's going into the breakdown on Australia's terms and is very very foolish!

I'm sure Gatland will be able to find a balanced back-row that can also cause mayhem at the breakdown but I don't think any of England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales's back-rows from this weekend are what they should be. Certainly England struggled for long periods against France and Scotland were annihilated by Ireland today, although that could be due to a lack of numbers committed early. Purely because I don't think either Robshaw or Warburton are guaranteed test starters, I think Gatland should definitely be looking at other positions for his captain.

Laidlaw for captain?

Its not just Pocock either, Hooper is a class player aswell.

With regards to fighting fire with fire, Scotland demonstrated last summer that it can work, Rennie completely outplayed Pocock and nullified him in an attritional game where he couldve been the difference. Currently, none of our specialist 7's are putting their hands up for this responsibility, but I wouldnt discount the idea if someone stakes a claim.

Apart from sam, robshaw and BOD are there any other strong contenders for it

8 Sean O'Brien
7 Robshaw
6 Ryan Jones

My pick

Wood
Robshaw
Faletau

I would sub Robshaw for Warburton if he finds any form between now and then as Pocock can only be countered by another jackal and that is not Robshaw. Alternatively you have to commit too many forwards to the breakdown.

TJ wrote:Laidlaw for captain?

Laidlaw shouldn't make the tour. He doesn't do much wrong but Care, Murray, Phillips, Youngs and probably a few others here and there are far superior options for the Lions. His goal kicking doesn't really do anything in his favour seeing as the Lions will have Farrell, Halfpenny and Sexton involved. Even if there were injuries to one or two would-be scrum-halves, I still think you could probably find a bolter like Paul Marshall who will be more of an attacking threat than Laidlaw.

Why are people talking about Warburton as if he should be there ? He is not even the best 7 in Wales at the moment and if I were in Gatlands place Tuperic would be way up the pecking order over Warburton. Warburton needs to stay injury free for more than a few days before he can be a serious contender, the man is just an injury waiting to happen.

Laidlaw is miles better than Phillips simply because of his speed (IMO) Care is easily enraged and thus has that as a weakness that I am sure Aus will exploit and Youngs has been brittle at times. Neither are that much better than laidlaw neither have his calmness

Laildlaw is a decent tactician with a calm head on him. He might be just what the lions need at SH and captain.

Heaslip has to be sliding down the rankings as even as a possible tour member, never mind being considered for captain.

Robshaw now the clear leader of the four nations.

Also, I think Sam Lewis of the Dragons could be the uncapped bolter who tours with the Lions, Gatland knows him and he is a very good player and he should be in the Wales team now if you ask me.

Pot Hale wrote:Heaslip has to be sliding down the rankings as even as a possible tour member, never mind being considered for captain.

Robshaw now the clear leader of the four nations.

I think one of Kelly Brown or Ryan Jones will have something to say about that.

A year ago we were all torn between 6N player of the tournament Dan Lydiate and Stephen Ferris to play 6 for the Lions,

But now it looks like neither will be playing internationally this year at least.

So who plays 6?

For me, it has to be Ryan Jones. The other options are Wood or Brown, but I don't think either brings the leadership and workrate of Jones.

If Ryan Jones gets into the starting test team, could he be the Lions captain?

Unless they shift SOB or Robshaw to 6, I seriously think Ryan is the best option.

LordDowlais wrote:Also, I think Sam Lewis of the Dragons could be the uncapped bolter who tours with the Lions, Gatland knows him and he is a very good player and he should be in the Wales team now if you ask me.

I very much doubt that,

the backrow is the least likely place to see a bolter, and Lewis is hardly going to impress much playing for the Dragons at the moment.

I know Ferris and Dan are injured but if they come back and show some real good form for their clubs I really think they could scrape onto the plane Evan though club level isn't international

Don't forget Gtaland knows Sam and Dan better than the other players...if Lydiate is fit he will travel...best 6 since Richard Hill

LordDowlais

They're both playing well and if Ryan Jones puts in a big performance in a Wales win over England then it will make it an interesting call - but at the moment Robshaw is ahead. Two MOTM performances in a row captaining the form side in the tournament.

As the OP says though - back row is ridiculously competitive. I think Best may get it just to avoid having to make a call on back row selection before the tour starts. Robshaw and Jones could both miss out to SOB and Morgan, for example.

100%beefy wrote:Don't forget Gtaland knows Sam and Dan better than the other players...if Lydiate is fit he will travel...best 6 since Richard Hill

Woodward didn't know BOD that well in 05, and I'd say that when all are at their best there's very little between Lydiate, Ferris and Wood. Lydiate will have to prove his fitness and form to get on the plane.

6. Ryan Jones (vc)
7. Chris Robshaw (c)
8. Toby Faletau

21. Shaun O'Brien

Steffon Armitage could Also be an option

Heaslip gets some ridiculous stick. He may not be a captain but he was better than SOB today. It's now almost the norm for people to have a go at him but he was pretty good today. Will he start for the lions? I don't know, but he should be in credit after today's performance

Lydiate will have a shot if he make a 6N return, if not, he may tour - but will need to prove himself with the dirt trackers.

Ferris is potentially out for the season, and I can't see him making the squad now to be honest.

thomh wrote:

100%beefy wrote:Don't forget Gtaland knows Sam and Dan better than the other players...if Lydiate is fit he will travel...best 6 since Richard Hill

Woodward didn't know BOD that well in 05, and I'd say that when all are at their best there's very little between Lydiate, Ferris and Wood. Lydiate will have to prove his fitness and form to get on the plane.

No he won't, if he is fit he will go....a classic example of this is when Gtaland took Gethin to RWC 2011 without any gametime after injury.

Standulstermen wrote:Heaslip gets some ridiculous stick. He may not be a captain but he was better than SOB today. It's now almost the norm for people to have a go at him but he was pretty good today. Will he start for the lions? I don't know, but he should be in credit after today's performance

Heaslip played well today, and proved a point. He won't start at the moment, but should tour. Ben Morgan is a possibility, but if he tours I would still expect Heaslip and Faletau to travel aswell.

wales606 wrote:
So who plays 6?

For me, it has to be Ryan Jones. The other options are Wood or Brown, but I don't think either brings the leadership and workrate of Jones.

You cannot fault Brown on either. 15 tackles today - none missed, He has captained Scotland and clearly is a leader. He can also sing.

Its really very competitive in the back row. To some extent it will depend on tactics I guess

Lydiate's fitness is in question. He can't tour. He also shouldn't be able to waltz into the Welsh squad since Ryan Jones has been excellent.

furthermore Beattie has also been very good and is still in the mix.

100%beefy wrote:

thomh wrote:

100%beefy wrote:Don't forget Gtaland knows Sam and Dan better than the other players...if Lydiate is fit he will travel...best 6 since Richard Hill

Woodward didn't know BOD that well in 05, and I'd say that when all are at their best there's very little between Lydiate, Ferris and Wood. Lydiate will have to prove his fitness and form to get on the plane.

No he won't, if he is fit he will go....a classic example of this is when Gtaland took Gethin to RWC 2011 without any gametime after injury.

Was Jenkins' injury anything like as long term as Lydiate's though? And in a much less competitive position. If Jenkins hadn't gone then behind Paul James there wouldn't have been any depth - whereas there are plenty of outstanding flankers available and currently on form for the lions tour

TJ wrote:

wales606 wrote:
So who plays 6?

For me, it has to be Ryan Jones. The other options are Wood or Brown, but I don't think either brings the leadership and workrate of Jones.

You cannot fault Brown on either. 15 tackles today - none missed, He has captained Scotland and clearly is a leader. He can also sing.

Its really very competitive in the back row. To some extent it will depend on tactics I guess

Perhaps, I like Brown, but I feel that Ryan brings more to the side - he does all the dirty work, was Wales' biggest tackler yesterday, provides a solid lineout option and is slightly more of a carrying threat than Brown. Brown does have a lot of experience and leadership, but Ryan has won 3 grandslams and captained Wales' more often than anyone else.

100%beefy wrote:Don't forget Gtaland knows Sam and Dan better than the other players...if Lydiate is fit he will travel...best 6 since Richard Hill

I just hope that Gatland will not pick Sam Warburton out of loyalty. I hope if he ( Gatlnd) does pick Warburton it will be because he is on form and the best player in his position.

Lets just hope that common cence when choosing players for the Lions will prevail.

Ryan Jones is also a shout be he can play 6,8 and 7 maybe 7 not as well as the others but he can also play second row if things go wrong plus hes got the experience of touring. I also think if Kelly brown keeps playing the way he is then he has to go

welshboii15 wrote:Ryan Jones is also a shout be he can play 6,8 and 7 maybe 7 not as well as the others but he can also play second row if things go wrong plus hes got the experience of touring. I also think if Kelly brown keeps playing the way he is then he has to go

No no no....maybe a mid week capt but not the test side

100%beefy wrote:Don't forget Gtaland knows Sam and Dan better than the other players...if Lydiate is fit he will travel...best 6 since Richard Hill

Im not say Jones as captain im say Jones is a good choice for back row because if the reasons I gave

My Lions back row at the moment

6 - Wood
7 - Robshaw
8 - Faletau

Well right now SOB and Robshaw are definite starters, the rest is up for dispute.

Jones
Faletau
Tuperic
Brown
Morgan
Wood
Heaslip

Gleesonisgod are you for real SOB a start wood, Jones, faletau, brown would start way before him id Evan say Gareth delve would start before him :L

I think in the back row more than anywhere else it will be about who travels at this stage rather than who starts. You need a balanced back row, and you need to see them play together to form that Robshaw, Wood, Tipuric, Jones, Brown, SOB, Faletau are all looking good right now, with room for one more no 8.

Beattie and Brown can be added to that list

Ferris won't be considered sadly

The Lions front row will be as good at the breakdown as any backrow player so not too worried about Pocock.

Healy, Cole and Best have been three of the best breakdown operators in the 6 nations this year.

Why do we get so worked up about what Pocock (or Hooper or ....whoever plays at 7) can do. If we can dictate the play his strengths over the ball at the breakdown can be completely negated.

Rather than moaning we do not have a 7 that can do what Pocock does, glory that we have 7s and back row players who can do things he cannot.

For me personally, I think the backrow and backrow substitue have to be made up of Robshaw, Wood, and O'Brien.

Wood and Robshaw have been oustanding for me so far this tournament, and O'Brien's carrying is so good.

LondonTiger wrote:Why do we get so worked up about what Pocock (or Hooper or ....whoever plays at 7) can do. If we can dictate the play his strengths over the ball at the breakdown can be completely negated.

Rather than moaning we do not have a 7 that can do what Pocock does, glory that we have 7s and back row players who can do things he cannot.

Not sure what that means in terms o fplaying the game,people get tackled, Pocock steals it and he is the best in the world at it....Aussie backs on the counter no thanks.....ask the RWC Saffas about 'dictating the play'