Ulster vs Treviso

The pressure is on to get the maximum points at home for Ulster this week, with Glasgow and Leinster breathing down our necks. However, Treviso will be obstinate opponents- they hammered Munster last week, albeit their away form is seldom as impressive.

We've had another major injury blow in losing Paddy Wallace, probably for the rest of the season, but Paddy Jackson is released from Ireland camp. Probably to get some practice place kicking, which hopefully he will do.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/11227.php

Extended Ulster squad v Treviso, RaboDirect PRO12, Friday 1st March, Ravenhill, 7.05pm;

Forwards (14)

Rob Herring, Nigel Brady, Niall Annett, Ricky Lutton, Declan Fitzpatrick, Callum Black, John Afoa, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson, Iain Henderson, Dan Tuohy, Mike McComish, Ali Birch, Robbie Diack.

Backs (11)

Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Michael Heaney, Niall O’Connor, Stuart Olding, Paddy Jackson, Michael Allen, Andrew Trimble, Chris Cochrane, Darren Cave, Ricky Andrew.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21591965

Jacksons taking on kicking duties which will hopefully not be a huge problem and probably means hes starting against France

Sexton is touch and go isn't he? And ROG isn't an option anymore.

Notch wrote:Sexton is touch and go isn't he? And ROG isn't an option anymore.

Notch from what Ive seen I dont think they expect Sexton to be fit for France.

ROG should have started against Scotland rather than throwing Jackson and according to Donal Lenihan last night on RTE that was the plan until the middle of the week when all of a sudden Jackson was the main man

Because they realised that ROG is now a liability. It's sad but it's true and the pundits in the Irish Rugby media refusing to acknowledge it is pretty dispiriting.

There are still plenty of people who basically associate the entire Ireland team with BOD, ROG and POC. Even high-profile ex-players. And they just can't get over the concept that their careers are coming to an end.

ROG is awful judging by his performance the week before v Scarleys he wouldn't have knocked over them pens either. Also some of what was said on against the head in fact mso of it was absolutel horse manure, saying ROG would have stepped up and said I am kicking at goal not to the corner is rubish he had a chance to do that 5 mins from the end and didn't. ANyways back to Ulster I think its good Jackson gets his chance to kickt his weekend Ulster need to give him more kicking duties not only for his sake to make him better but because Pienaar is tired at the minute and he will need all the help he can get. Feel soryy for Paddy Wallace, Olding to start at 12 then presumably.

Midfield picks itself really with Olding and Cave, and then Jackson and Pienaar but I would actually like to see P. Marshall start.

Same here Notch. Ruan looks jaded, and no wonder, he's pretty much been playing for 2 years solid... Backs pick themselves with the only dilemma over who plays between Ghost and Allen.

Herring has redeemed himself and should start. Stevenson and Tuohy in the row, Hendy, Birch and Diack behind them.

And NOC is on the bench...

Me too Notch with Ruan he needs a rest really I know we have time off after this but would prefer to see Paul start this one then have Ruan on the bench if we need to use him. That would probably give Paddy a chance the control the game out of hand too. We have serious injury problems though, it is betond a joke. We can't take Treviso lightly we found that out last year at home and they will be confident with basically their 2nd team having just turned over Munster

Herring should have started last week over Brady but i understand the reasons for that selection. Birch to get another go at 7 but he needs a seriously big performance imo. McComish was better than him last week.

Tuohy and Stevenson pick themselves with McComb benching. Need the win here big style and a bonus would be great. We need to get after them from the start like leinster did and they wont fancy it.

Allen every time for me Stand- become a fan of Allen. Very solid. Cochrane has yet to really shine.

If we have Pienaar-NOC-Cochrane on the bench... Pienaar will cover 10 too. Very much suspect Pienaar will start, which I'm not too concerned about, but hopefully;

Black-Herring-Afoa (c)
Stevenson-Tuohy
Henderson-Diack-Birch
Marshall-Jackson
Olding-Cave
Trimble-Andrew-Allen

Annett, Lutton, Fitzpatrick, McComb, McComish, Pienaar, O'Connor, Cochrane

I'd almost go with Heaney Pienaar Cochrane for the bench...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21590394

Interesting. Who's not up to it anymore?

100% Michael Allen over Cochrane. His decision making is superb. Last week i felt he was our best player pre injury and the game prior i thought he was a positive in.

He may become something of a late bloomer in the Chris henry mould. I think he could go on to have a very good career at Ulster at the very least.

Notch wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21590394

Interesting. Who's not up to it anymore?

Im not sure who is referring to. Perhaps Wallace? I dont think so but he could be talking about our backrow.

I don't know he seemed to be refering to older players and I can't think of so many of them, maybe Wallace as Stand said? Who knows maybe its juts a generalised comment

Standulstermen wrote:100% Michael Allen over Cochrane. His decision making is superb. Last week i felt he was our best player pre injury and the game prior i thought he was a positive in.

He may become something of a late bloomer in the Chris henry mould. I think he could go on to have a very good career at Ulster at the very least.

You say late bloomer, but he's only 22.

Good aul' Maaaak. His accent is amazing. "Plah" would appear to be "player".

I do like Allen. He's better at 13, I think, but has worked hard on the wing. Stout defense, can be an incisive runner.

I'll be honest, though, I am concerned that we're goimg to implode. So many top-line guys missing.

Still - time for a big quaff of man-up juice. Let's see some performances, lads.

Black
Herring
Afoa
Stevenson
Tuohy
Henderson
Birch
Diack
Pienaar (or - dare I say it - Marshall? Especially if PJ's kicking. Maybe even Heaney, who I have been impressed with)
PJ
Trimble
Olding
Cave
Allen
Andrew

Job's a good 'un.

Standulstermen wrote:100% Michael Allen over Cochrane. His decision making is superb. Last week i felt he was our best player pre injury and the game prior i thought he was a positive in.

He may become something of a late bloomer in the Chris henry mould. I think he could go on to have a very good career at Ulster at the very least.

Not convinced by either Allen or Cochrane. CC has shown with the tries he has scored for Ulster that he has the edge in attack. Allen doesn't have Cochrane's pace but is a more solid defender. Cochrane is two years older and at 24 should be out of the Academy by now. The implication is that he is rated good enough to keep but not good enough to make the next step. AFAIK he trains so hard that he is the only player in the Ulster squad whose BMI indicates he needs to put on fat! Allen is slow for a wing and small for a centre which is a problem, but he has shown to be a competent squad player, and most importantly makes more good decisions in defence than bad ones. I'd have David McIlwaine or Ian Whitten back over either of them, but if I had to choose one it would probably be Allen over Cochrane.

Whitten yes, McIlwaine not so much. I think that Ulster need to keep Allen around and he'll be a very useful player for years to come. Very competent in both the centre and on the wing. He isn't going to set the world on fire but you need guys like him who can just step in a do a good job. Cochrane has a bit more x factor about him, but for all the expectation he just hasn't been able to fully make the step up for whatever reason.

With our injuries right now we could use all of the Above we are going to have Niall O'Connor on the bench for this

I'd love for small parcel to start and Pienaar to get some much needed time bench time. Good to have Jackson and Hendo back.

could be a wee selection shock on the cards for this one, front row could be interesting...

although if we are now getting TC back things may change again

The only thing that would be mildly shocking and at the same time, quite sensible, is if Annett gets a start. Hopefully we get Tom released and can give Annett a start with big bad John and Tom on either side.

As it's during the 6N I would be mildly surprised if fitz didn't start though

i think fitz will start, its who is due to be on the other side who would be the surprise, ie BBJ.....but like I say, with TC coming back that wee plan may not happen after all

Brady again?

Afoa starts at loosehead.

(15-9): R Andrew, A Trimble, D Cave, S Olding, M Allen, P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): J Afoa, R Herring, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, D Tuohy, I Henderson, M McComish, R Diack;
Replacements (16-23) N Brady, C Black, R Lutton, N McComb, A Birch, P Marshall, N O’Connor, C Cochrane.

Ludicrous really.

We need to have John Afoa in the team for his experience, fringe defence and ball carrying as much as his scrum contribution. But Ireland insist we play Fitzpatrick. So we end up with Afoa at loosehead.

That said, I'm not concerned. He's a strong boy and should be able to switch over to loosehead- harder to go the other way. We will be moving him back to tighthead in the second half. God I can't wait until the Six Nations is over!

If we are forced to play Fitzpatrick why not just play Black at 1 and bring Afoa on at 3 when Fitzpatrick runs out - Afoa at loosehead is ridiculous.

Is Lutton a TH? Do you guys rate him at all?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Is Lutton a TH? Do you guys rate him at all?

I don't follow the AIB or B&I Cup enough so I don't really know. I'd like to see Conor Carey involved in the Ulster 23 sometime soon though, he was unlucky not to be capped under McLaughlin as he got injured just before he was going to be given a go

No to both questions LF4L.

Big John has played loosehead for both the All Blacks and Auckland Blues.

It will be a piece of p!ss for the big feller.

Is Afoa also captain?

Notch wrote:We need to have John Afoa in the team. But Ireland insist we play Fitzpatrick. So we end up with Afoa at loosehead.

The cheek of it. Can you imagine the IRFU really insisting that Ulster finally play a tighthead instead of being so reliant on Afoa. The reason we have a playoff system is to be able to make these types of rotations and not needing to have Afoa start every game.

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:We need to have John Afoa in the team. But Ireland insist we play Fitzpatrick. So we end up with Afoa at loosehead.

The cheek of it. Can you imagine the IRFU really insisting that Ulster finally play a tighthead instead of being so reliant on Afoa. The reason we have a playoff system is to be able to make these types of rotations and not needing to have Afoa start every game.

The reason we need Afoa in the team this week isn't due to our scrum. Its due to injuries in the backrow and a lack of experience. The right call is to start BBJ at tighthead this week whereas if we had a few more of the injured players available we wouldn't need him. Frankly, I think the best decision for Ulster is always going to be the one made in Ulster. I'm happy enough to trade off in that we get Paddy Jackson back for the game but the less IRFU meddling, the better it is for us.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Is Lutton a TH? Do you guys rate him at all?

I don't follow the AIB or B&I Cup enough so I don't really know. I'd like to see Conor Carey involved in the Ulster 23 sometime soon though, he was unlucky not to be capped under McLaughlin as he got injured just before he was going to be given a go

What's that? The All Ireland Beague?

Notch wrote:The less IRFU meddling, the better it is for us.

Who exactly is "us"

Ulster.

SUFTUM.

Surely Pienaar will play this one before he settled down on the bench with a couple of pina coladas for 3 weeks?

You need to be a little bit wary of this Treviso team following Munster's surprise wedgie.

Thats my point Notch.

You're a fan of both Ulster and Ireland. Ulster are top of the table with a home game in the middle of an international window against a much weaker side.

We are getting into the business end of the 6 Nations and our backup tighthead is very low on match fitness.

Its not like this is forced on you for a big must win Heineken Cup game. Overall this the best move for both your teams.

Home rule is Rome rule Stag

Here's the thing; the IRFU can dictate so much to us, and I'm fully behind making a few sacrifices at provincial level if it can deliver a successful Ireland team.

But the Ireland team is still run like an amateur scratch side week in, week out.

Since Kidney became coach we've had to abide by ridiculous forced selections. Court at tighthead, apparently Trimble back to centre last week, Wallace at 10 etc. And if they bred success for the national side fair enough- but judging by how much their performances drop for Ulster in those positions, they were never viable options internationally. So you have to ask, as a provincial season ticket holder, what on earth is the point of supporting this regime interfering in provincial selection when they don't seem to have a single, solitary clue of what they hope to achieve by it?

Some interventions are very welcome. I think its best for everybody if Paddy Jackson takes the kicks at provincial level and thats something thats happening this week. It's something that should have happened against Zebre but when they needed to make the call, they didn't even recognise it.

But frankly, this IS a massive, must-win game for us. I know you have a great deal of disdain for the Pro12 but I don't share it. If we lose its likely we go into 2nd place and from there we may miss out on a home Final draw. We need not just a win but a bonus point win. And we've just been asked to shift one of the only players who is working well in a makeshift pack to a different position to accomodate a team that is run by incompetent Cork gombeen man who talks in riddles.

Yes, we'll do it. But why do we have to be happy about it? Kidney can pick every provincial combination this weekend if he wants and Ireland will still be shoite the week after. Why am I supposed to care more about a lost cause than a team with a good chance of achieving something? Yes, we're getting to the business end of the Six Nations- and the Triple Crown, Championship and Slam are all gone. So why should I be celebrating that the same incompetent decision makers who are running my national team into the gutter get to dictate selections to the decision makers who are actually bringing on my provincial side quite well?

They pay the bills- I get it. But this kind of shoite weakens the Pro12 as a league and ensures that they will always pay the bills. Because its undermining the competition. When are we going to admit that this micro-managing of resources from Dublin hasn't made us any more successful internationally than the much more laissez-faire Welsh and Scots?

Hear hear Notch

I don't mind the IRFU dictating things so much as others but I do think Ulster receive more it this than others.

Wallace having to play at 10, Court at tighthead, Trimble at 13, Jackson must kick, Fitz must play.

I'm wondering have the other provinces been told to do this sort of thing as much.

Leinster play McFadden at 12 in certain games? Zebo at fullback? why they would rather not.

I know it happens all 3 but does it happen to Ulster more or is it just me?

Court has been kept but kilcoyne released this week. Is that not strange? I know Court started last week but with Healy available he most likely won't be in the squad for France

Generally they don't release the starters, never have. Only exception is Jackson and thats a smart exception- he needs practice kicking.

Fitzgerald was asked to play fullback last week for Leinster, I know that. I think it probably does happen as much for Munster and Leinster in honesty, and it isn't noticed. But not Connacht (not that I'm in a hurry to swap places with them).

One thing about Ulster is we've swam against the grain in terms of tactics a lot. i.e. we see Wallace as an out and out 12, Kidney saw him as 10/12 cover. We see Court as a specialist loosehead who can cover tighthead in an emergency, Kidney saw him as a tighthead. In the past we've seen 9 as the best position for a game controller with 10 more a link man in attack, Kidney the opposite. We want to play with an extra distributor at 12, Kidney wanted to play with a crash ball centre. We see Trimble and Bowe as out and out wingers, Kidney sees them as being able to cover 13 and 15 respectively.

So the meddling is all the more jarring and frustrating for us because normally the IRFU are coming in and telling us to do something which is the opposite of how we would ideally do things. I'm sure Munster and Leinster fans could list off a similar reel of grievances if they wanted to.

The fact Ulster have been validated with almost all the above calls getting more out of the players in question is neither here nor there. I'll always hold that the coach who has the players week week out is better placed to make judgements on where and how they should play and the national coach should pay attention to that instead of trying to inflexibly force them into their system.

Notch wrote:Generally they don't release the starters, never have. Only exception is Jackson and thats a smart exception- he needs practice kicking.

Fitzgerald was asked to play fullback last week for Leinster, I know that. I think it probably does happen as much for Munster and Leinster in honesty. And Connacht.

Probably not as much at Connacht

The approach to it all is the problem, in the middle of the 6N their scrambling to try players in positions to see if they can use them. Instead of trying it over the course of the season so that players can gain more experience if needed or alternatives can be found

Fez had surgery again on the ankle, joint washout, so out for the season...

Could be back in May, but pretty much yeah. It's frustrating because we can't directly negotiate his contract with him until the IRFU decide what they are doing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0228/1224330604884.html

Likely that Wallace and Trimble will be on contracts with us next season- if they stay. Stade Francais have been sniffing around Trimble. Fingers crossed Trimble signs on as he's been significantly more effective for us than Gilroy. Hopefully Luke Marshall and Craig Gilroy can get central contracts in the near future though, but this depends on how long current contracts have to run. Paddy Jackson has a chance of the same now Sexton is overseas and O'Gara is finished.

The criteria is meant to be contracts for guaranteed starters but we could easily have a situation where O'Brien and a fit-again Ferris are on provincial contracts and O'Mahony is on a central contract