nathan cleverly, not the worst world champion in the world?

hi guys, i used to like cleverly, he has a exciting style and a good engine, not the most skilled, but certainly willing to take a shot to give one. when he first went for the belt he was to face brahmer for the WBO title, but due to circumstance beyond his control ended up been gifted his belt. at the time he was still finishing his studies and so a first easy defense was understandable, and i still felt he deserved a chance.

however since cleverly has fully dedicated himself to boxing his progress has been awful, both in terms of number and quality of fights, nurses and part time plumbers for the most part. this may be his lack of ambition, or frank warrens. or perhaps warren is unable to get him the big fights, dawson, hopkins, cloud and even fights like enzo mac domestically.

many people have written him of as the worst active world champion. however i was checking the record of the WBA champion, Beibut Shumenov (many have been calling for this unification fight) and i have to say he makes cleverly records look like froch's, he is 13-1-0, and it took him 2 attempts to win the belt from campillo, another poor champion, he lost the first fight by MD, then scrapped a rematch with a SD. other than that he really has fought nobodys, at least cleverly has a few okay-ish wins, namely bellew and murat.

what do you guys think is cleverly even the worst champion in the division? i actually dont think so.

Hard to say...he's never beaten anybody decent.....

I had him drawing with Bellew who's come on since then....

Malignaggi must be close as there are probably 10 Welterweights and 10 Light Welterweights who would start as favourite against him and yet he is a world champion.

but at least he has a recognisable names on his CV, whereas Shemunoev doesn't

truss, i agree that bellew ran clev close, and also that he has improved, but at least nathan has that win over a genuine contender, the other guy doesn't

Shumenov has had 14 fights and the fights with Campillo on their own set him aside from Cleverly, I would also argue that Uzelkov has a better record than Clevs recent opposition too.

Cleverly needs to jump ship. After listening to the v2 podcast, he knows his level of opposition is below par. His problem is the other names in his division have no reason to fight him, he has no fan base, no tv contract, and a promoter who's broke. The only thing he has going for him is his wbo trinket, so he has to fight the pathetic mandatories that frank and his best mate the wbo put before him.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Shumenov has had 14 fights and the fights with Campillo on their own set him aside from Cleverly, I would also argue that Uzelkov has a better record than Clevs recent opposition too.

i dont really rate campillo, and he ran shumenov to a SD, he his 0-1-1 with murat and has also lost to uzelkov, so for me is not really any better than the likes of bellew.

i also don't really rate uzelkov, he has lost both times he stepped up in class, and lost to stiegliz and bramher.

its close in terms of quality on each guys record but for me clev edges it slightly.

jimdig wrote:Cleverly needs to jump ship. After listening to the v2 podcast, he knows his level of opposition is below par. His problem is the other names in his division have no reason to fight him, he has no fan base, no tv contract, and a promoter who's broke. The only thing he has going for him is his wbo trinket, so he has to fight the pathetic mandatories that frank and his best mate the wbo put before him.

been talking on another thread about franks seemingly inability to do the slightest thing about his boxers walking away. with groves and burns gone im sure clev is thinking about it. apparently golden boy are impressed with him, so with there uk promotions starting this year i wouldnt be suprised to see him go either

Campillo did get robbed by Cloud and has been a world level performer for years, it's not about rating Shumenovs opposition highly it's just that it's a darn site better than Cleverlys. Even faded versions of Mitchell, Joppy and Griffin represent a step up from the likes of Hawk and whoever else Clev has fought. Uzelkov hasn't fought either Stieglitz or Braehmer think you're getting him confused with someone else.

Why does cleverly need to jump ship..........Easy fights for decent money...

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Campillo did get robbed by Cloud and has been a world level performer for years, it's not about rating Shumenovs opposition highly it's just that it's a darn site better than Cleverlys. Even faded versions of Mitchell, Joppy and Griffin represent a step up from the likes of Hawk and whoever else Clev has fought. Uzelkov hasn't fought either Stieglitz or Braehmer think you're getting him confused with someone else.

not seen the cloud fight, so fair enough, i actually like cloud so fair point. and your right, i meant he got beat by shumenov and gutknecht, and it is gutknecht who lost when he stepped up to the 2 i mentioned.

i think even though he didn't know it at the time, bellew will prove to be better at the win. also he gave murat his first loss, which is at least on par with a beating campillo (he did beat him and draw against him).

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why does cleverly need to jump ship..........Easy fights for decent money...

but with no burns, no groves, no degale or brook or anybody else with a decent name are people going to pay purely on cleverlys name alone? on in wales i'd guess

Shumenov has a bit of depth to his record which Cleverly does not, the big difference for me.

He fought Griffin in his 6th fight, yes Montell was a bit long in the tooth by then but not many boxers are fighting active former world champions that early, followed up with Mitchell, you can't say he's taken the easy route. He's taken a very clever route to a world title, fighting guys he should beat but fights he'll learn a lot from.

It reminds me of a comment on Micahael Rapaport (a dwarf) made on The Secret Policeman's ball. Paraphasing it is "Nathan Cleverly. Not the worst champion in the world, but f*****g close"

neither fighters record is that credible to be honest, but the amount of stick cleverly gets whilst nobody mentions the shumenov just need pointing out for me, he certain deserves a #2 or #3 spot in the division, even with his poor record

Theres some very bad world champions around at the moment. Much worse than Clev. Povetkin and Baysangurov perhaps. Clev wants the big fights but Frank is doing his old trick so I wouldnt be surprised to see Nathan jump ship. The problem Clev has is that theres a lot of competition in Europe. Kraniqi is not an easy fight and with Braehmer back, I know Clev would fancy that one. Plus theres Shumenov and Gutchneckt as well. Clev should establish himself number 1 in Europe before heading on to the big fights with Dawson and Cloud (no doubt BHop would be gone by then)

Campillo is better than the best on Cleverly's list (Murat and Bellew). Although that win was close with a couple of scores bordering on robbery if I remember right. Saying that Cleverly squeaked by Bellew who was supposed to be a class below him and who only got the fight because he came in at short notice, missed weight, and called him a rat at the press conference, which built some fan interest!

Overall, they're comparably poor in their records. What's bothered me most about Cleverly is that his run of fights lately have all been against very poor opposition right at the time where he should be stepping up in class. We're talking 5 or 6 fights in a row here: Hawk, Karpency, Bellew, Kuziemski, Mohammedi, and now Krasniqi. How much bad luck can they be having in trying to find a better opponent? For me the Campillo name points Shumenov a shave ahead. But they're both pathetic records for 'world' champions.

I don't count Povetkin either. I don't count any interim belt holder that has a 'super' holder above them in the same weight category in the same organisation. WK is the WBA HW champ - not Povetkin.

Zaurbek Baysangurov is a good shout though. Had to look him up!

i think kraniqi is a fairly easy fight, i wouldnt see him troubling the top guys in the division.

if i was cleverly id let eddie hearn get me the big fights, if he loses his title to one of the european nobodies he will be on the "don't need him" list for everybody else.

Boxtthis wrote:I don't count Povetkin either. I don't count any interim belt holder that has a 'super' holder above them in the same weight category in the same organisation. WK is the WBA HW champ - not Povetkin.

Zaurbek Baysangurov is a good shout though. Had to look him up!

does that mean you don't class haye as a true heavyweight champion?

Haye was the only WBA champion at the time Eddy.

he was the only WBA champion, but it was only the world champion belt he won, he fought wlad and it was upgraded to the super world champion belt, which he lost so he was never the top level champion, as the super champion is the true title, which wlad now holds.

its stupid i know, but technically its right

He was the highest level WBA champion because he was the only WBA champion, it was upgraded because Wlad unified. Now the Super title is the highest but before the unification the regular was the highest.

its all pedantics really but shows the absurd nature of govering bodies.

I tend not to use the term 'world champion' because most are 'title holders'. I can only imagine how difficult it is for any potential new boxing fan to follow.

nathan cleverly is a joke and will be proven as such very soon, he is the most over rated boxer since the useless clown that was joe calzaghe, it must be something in the welsh water

Hi onetwo

If we're measuring his ability as a fighter then he's certainly not the worst world champion.....he's just fought the worst people!

RingMasterDave wrote: nathan cleverly is a joke and will be proven as such very soon, he is the most over rated boxer since the useless clown that was joe calzaghe, it must be something in the welsh water

What the guy who beat Hopkins who is the current champ?

Nice first post mind!

by TheMackemMawler on Sun 10 Mar 2013 - 17:39

If we're measuring his ability as a fighter then he's certainly not the worst world champion.....he's just fought the worst people!

And thats a very good point. Cleverly may be the greatest fighter ever for all we know. Its just he hasnt been able to show it yet due to poor matchmaking. You can only beat whats in front of you.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Shumenov has a bit of depth to his record which Cleverly does not, the big difference for me.

He fought Griffin in his 6th fight, yes Montell was a bit long in the tooth by then but not many boxers are fighting active former world champions that early, followed up with Mitchell, you can't say he's taken the easy route. He's taken a very clever route to a world title, fighting guys he should beat but fights he'll learn a lot from.

To fight and beat Mitchell 13 years after he retired after Calzaghe does not represent a step up in class, neither does a ludicrously old and never that good Joppy. Uzelkov was poor, and it could be argued that he robbed Campillo.

I think Cleverly nudges Shumenov with Murat, Bellew and numbers. Murat was top10 at the time and Bellew turns out to be a pretty decent win afterall.

But then it's like comparing a turd with a poop. Both records are c**p.

Greetings ringmaster onetwo