Incredible story- Mike Scott Banned For Life

Mike Scott is former manager of London Welsh, who recently resigned over the Tyson Keats affair- which was his sole doing. As a result of that he's been banned for life from rugby union.

http://www.rfu.com/thegame/discipline/judgements/judgments-2012-2013/judgments-by-offence/~/media/files/2013/discipline/judgments/130308%20%20scott%20misconduct.ashx

The full judgement above is well worth reading but there are two bits in particular that stand out;

The particulars of the offence were that between 6 September 2012 and 3 January 2013 while acting in his capacity as the Team Manager at London Welsh RFC he provided false and misleading information to the RFU. In particular, for the purposes of procuring the Effective Registration of a New Zealand player called Tyson Keats, he:

a) Submitted an RFU Player Registration Form falsely stating that Tyson Keats had been born in Christchurch England and was a British citizen;
b) Falsely stated in a telephone call to the RFU that Tyson Keats had been born in Christchurch, England and had emigrated to New Zealand with his family when he was two years old; and
c) Prepared and submitted to the RFU a forged UK passport in the name of Tyson Keats to support the above.

The judgment is nearly as eye watering as the offence;

There is no place in the game for this type of behaviour or the type of person who would act in such a dishonest manner throughout an extended course of conduct designed to mislead both the Rugby Football Union and his own club. In those circumstances the appropriate sanction is that Mr Scott should be suspended from any involvement in the management, coaching or playing of rugby football union in any capacity for the rest of his life. Further he should not be a member of any club affiliated to the RFU for the same period.

Read the full judgement for the details of a tale of lies and deceit compounded by lies and deceit. What could compel a man to do such a thing?

Pressure makes people do the most ridiculous of things. Making an initial mistake you can excuse, but to then compound that by continuing to lie and deceive further is complete madness.

Interestingly he tries to make it clear that he acted alone and claims that when he made his manager at Welsh aware in early December he may not have made everything clear to him. Welsh will clearly attempt to use Jeff Blackett's acceptance of the facts of Scott's letter as part of the basis of their appeal against the points deduction.

There is still something missing here. Not sure what it is. But is just too pat and too simple.

An incredible judgement, and I can't disagree with it. But, what are we missing? I'm being serious, there is something wrong with all this.

DG, I am inclined to agree. Doing the job I do, I am suspicious by nature, but I struggle to believe that nobody noticed he was cracking up, and nobody else within the organisation knew what was going on.

Ozzy, that's part of it. Too many parts don't add up. At least the parts being reported at this moment.

Ozzy3213 wrote:DG, I am inclined to agree. Doing the job I do, I am suspicious by nature, but I struggle to believe that nobody noticed he was cracking up, and nobody else within the organisation knew what was going on.

Being a moderator? I can imagine that would do that to you!

Initially I feel that the ban is excessive. Ten years seems adequate cf. Deano.

But I'm tempted to concur with the Doc - except to speculate and idly suggest that I smell an mixture of alleged agent and alleged filthy lucre.

Furthermore, Keats needs to be summoned to explain his part in this sad business.

greytiger wrote:Initially I feel that the ban is excessive. Ten years seems adequate cf. Deano.

But I'm tempted to concur with the Doc - except to speculate and idly suggest that I smell an mixture of alleged agent and alleged filthy lucre.

Furthermore, Keats needs to be summoned to explain his part in this sad business.

Don't know Portnoy, looking from a wider view, Deano cheated at a game of ball sports. Scott cheated the HMRC, the Borders agency, forged legal documents to name but 3 of his doings. That's the kind of stuff that gets you deep in the brown stuff outside.

greytiger wrote:Initially I feel that the ban is excessive. Ten years seems adequate cf. Deano.

I believe the 'life ban' comes with a caveat that he may not apply for it to be lifted for a period of ten years so could end up nearer your initial thought.

Sad business that will continue to feed speculation about involvements for some time to come. If however there is a formal criminal investigation much of that may yet come out.

Is there a reason why Scott couldn't just get Keats' papers in order, or were they at their player limit?

Biltomg, as it turns out if they had persevered through the proper channels they could have though later in the season. When Keats' initial visa app was turned down Scott resorted to various illegal means to do it. Think it just snowballed, one lie led to another etc.

Keats was admitted under a visitors visa thus not allowed to work. He was entitled to an anscestors visa which gives the right to work - but cannot be applied for when you are in the country thus the initial application was rejected.

I have to agree with the comments that there is more to this than meets the eye. The sad and strange thing about all of this is that Scott was willing to jeopardise and ultimately sacrifice his career for a very average player. Surely he could have found another EQP SH somewhere?

aitchw wrote:Biltomg, as it turns out if they had persevered through the proper channels they could have though later in the season. When Keats' initial visa app was turned down Scott resorted to various illegal means to do it. Think it just snowballed, one lie led to another etc.

That's what seems odd to me. If you wanted someone in the team and couldn't get a visa, you would just say - no visa for him, @£$%&, who else can we get in. It's a pain, but it takes a really odd person, or someone in a very unusual/disturbing position to say 'I know, I'll forge him a passport'.

I hope that a criminal prosecution comes from this, not out of any vindictiveness against Mike Scott, his life is a mess already, but because it would offer the best chance for the whole sorry story to be aired in public. If, as has been suggested, there is a lot more to this than is yet apparent a criminal investigation, with all the powers of enquiry that entails, is the most likely route to getting answers. If he has been scapegoated in any way it should be identified.

aitchw wrote:I hope that a criminal prosecution comes from this, not out of any vindictiveness against Mike Scott, his life is a mess already, but because it would offer the best chance for the whole sorry story to be aired in public. If, as has been suggested, there is a lot more to this than is yet apparent a criminal investigation, with all the powers of enquiry that entails, is the most likely route to getting answers. If he has been scapegoated in any way it should be identified.

The police have already dealt with it. He was cautioned.

Unless theres some major movie type conspiracy here and hes willingly taken the fall because the have compromising pictures of him and henson or something then really there isnt anything more to this than one guy screwing up and swallowing spiders to fix it till it caught up with him.

Yes, I wondered about that, PSW. A Police Caution seemed very low key given passport forgery etc. I take it you think that's an end to any criminal enquiries? Presumably the issues of the visa are considered too trivial to be actionable.

aitchw wrote:Yes, I wondered about that, PSW. A Police Caution seemed very low key given passport forgery etc. I take it you think that's an end to any criminal enquiries? Presumably the issues of the visa are considered too trivial to be actionable.

He didn't forge a passport. He sent a doctored copy of a passport (photocopy with photoshop or something like that) rather than an actual fake passport. Also Keats is eligible for a visa, he just didn't have it approved at the time. Hardly a massive deal and a caution is probably fair. It's a bigger deal regarding rugby administration rather than legal issues (although still illegal of course)

Given that a lorry driver can be heavily fined or even imprisoned for "allowing" an illegal immigrant to stow away on his vehicle without his knowledge does a "police caution" seem rather light for all this:
The player entered the country on a tourist visa - the player must have known that this would no enable him to play professionally, after all New Zealand itself has very strict visa laws for their vistors and to migrate there. I can see how the whole thing escalated, a lie leading to another bigger lie and so on, however as HKC points out above it seems a remarkable situation to get in for someone who (no disrespect intented) is an average SH player and certainly would be ten a penny to bring in legally.
Anyone on here with access to a legal library who could look at the precendent on this sort of case in the "real world"?

Irish Londoner wrote:Given that a lorry driver can be heavily fined or even imprisoned for "allowing" an illegal immigrant to stow away on his vehicle without his knowledge does a "police caution" seem rather light for all this:
The player entered the country on a tourist visa - the player must have known that this would no enable him to play professionally, after all New Zealand itself has very strict visa laws for their vistors and to migrate there. I can see how the whole thing escalated, a lie leading to another bigger lie and so on, however as HKC points out above it seems a remarkable situation to get in for (no disrespect intented) was an average SH player and certainly would be ten a penny to bring in legally.
Anyone on here with access to a legal library who could look at the precendent on this sort of case in the "real world"?

Big difference between lying to get someone working who is eligible for, but not issued with, a visa for work and is in the country legally and someone who brings someone in who isn't eligible for and probably unable to get a visa to work or even enter the the country legally. Both wrong but very different scales. What Scott did was wrong. He now had a criminal record (that's right isn't it?). I don't think it needs more than that (if he was doing it for several players and they weren't eligible for visas then throw the book at him).

EDIT: goes without saying this is personal opinion and I have no idea what other cases have ended in.

Ozzy - seeing as your probably the site expert here, how come the bloke ain't doing time? Forging a UK passport must carry a sentence, and if Keats didn't have a legit work visa, then are there not illegal immegrant laws etc? I appreciate that it was doing dodgey stuff for sports etc, is probably less of an issue than if he were doing it for more questionable reasons, but I can't work out how he can just get away with a ban from rugby and a polite telling off from the law.

Hammer - the player entered under a tourist visa and certainly until this was all brought to light and he was shipped over to Paris by LW to apply for an ancestry visa appeared to be quite happy to get paid for playing illegally.
I cannot believe that the player did not know or understand what was going on, especially given the stringent approach to overseas nationals work visas that NZ enforce and the documentation he would have been given with his UK entry visa and remember we are not talking about a visiting Kiwi doing some cash in hand bar work to fund a trip we are talking about a professional sportsman who would be familar with the processes and would (I assume) have some sort of agent acting for him and his interests.

Apparantly he was told by Scott that his original visa application was approved. I'm not sure that's feasible but it was accepted by the RFU. However I personally don't see why Keats shouldn't have a punishment for signing a blank document (even if that's what he did). The whole point of singing those documents is that it's you saying it's all true. But that's Keats not Scott.

Spiderman, he didn't forge a passport. He sent a copy of a passport to the RFU that wasn't clear and was apparantly doctored (whether that means it was doctored to make it unclear or doctored to say the wrong infomation is unknown). That's very different than having an actual forged passport. And that 'fake' passport was only used to try and register the player as 'English' with the RFU.

HammerofThunor wrote:Spiderman, he didn't forge a passport. He sent a copy of a passport to the RFU that wasn't clear and was apparantly doctored (whether that means it was doctored to make it unclear or doctored to say the wrong infomation is unknown). That's very different than having an actual forged passport. And that 'fake' passport was only used to try and register the player as 'English' with the RFU.

I guess it is not as bad, but it is still rather iffy. It was doctored by changin Chirstchurch NZ to Chirstchurch Eng (or UK or whatever).

The registration form said Christchurch Eng. The passport copy was said to be unreadable.

It certainly is iffy which is why the guy has a criminal record.

Ah nooo. Where's the next Waterboys album coming from then?

NZ passports do not have a country of birth printed in them only a place of birth. So it would only have Christchurch written in it.