Can Shaun Edwards go on the lions tour please?

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Can Shaun Edwards go on the lions tour please? Empty Can Shaun Edwards go on the lions tour please?

Post by t1000advancedprototype on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 11:57 am

Wales - 4 and a half matches and no tries conceded.

Is anyone else starting to think leaving him out was a mistake?

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 5:46 pm

Perhaps afterall the real coaching focal point of this Welsh side. A fire and grit man. Watched him as he was with the players on the field before the game. The contained fury in his demeanor said it all. He would have certainly played his part in rising the emotions of those players and ...well, it was there for the world to see. England weren't walking out of that stadium with the Cup... it wasn't going to happen.

Yeah, I think emotion is sometimes regarded as a dirty word these days as English coaches sit stony faced and almost cyber-like in their professional objectivity. But you need a guy like Edwards for the killer games. The Lions really isn't a place for clinical objectivity. There will probably be wars out there and you need a few emotional men to stir the troops.

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Post by Looseheaded on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 5:55 pm

We should all have a whip around and pay for his ticket, surely Gats wouldn't send him home if they 'happened' to bump into eachother on a beach somewhere...

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Post by Liam on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 5:58 pm

The man's demeanor just portrays commitment, desire and a never say die attitude which is exactly what we have seen from Wales since the Ireland game. Great shame he's not going on the Lions tour.

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Post by t1000advancedprototype on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:09 pm

What if it's mind games and Edwards is going?

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:18 pm

t1000advancedprototype wrote:What if it's mind games and Edwards is going?

You mean you've paid for his flight and accomodation all by yourself? You really mean business there, prototype! Wink

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:20 pm

NO. Warren Gatland has made his mind up. And Edwards is not going with the Lions squad. End of.

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Post by t1000advancedprototype on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:24 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:NO. Warren Gatland has made his mind up. And Edwards is not going with the Lions squad. End of.

Nothing is end of. Gatland is bossman. He can add whoever he wants.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:27 pm

t1000advancedprototype wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:NO. Warren Gatland has made his mind up. And Edwards is not going with the Lions squad. End of.

Nothing is end of. Gatland is bossman. He can add whoever he wants.


That is true of course. But it would look a bit odd dont you think.

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Post by t1000advancedprototype on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:29 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
t1000advancedprototype wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:NO. Warren Gatland has made his mind up. And Edwards is not going with the Lions squad. End of.

Nothing is end of. Gatland is bossman. He can add whoever he wants.


That is true of course. But it would look a bit odd dont you think.

It would, but after this tournament it would be madness to omit Edwards. The lions want to win don't they?

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:36 pm

t1000advancedprototype wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
t1000advancedprototype wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:NO. Warren Gatland has made his mind up. And Edwards is not going with the Lions squad. End of.

Nothing is end of. Gatland is bossman. He can add whoever he wants.


That is true of course. But it would look a bit odd dont you think.

It would, but after this tournament it would be madness to omit Edwards. The lions want to win don't they?

Yes they do. But Wales have not exactly set the world alight lately. Yes they did win yesterday and they won very well in the end...But the Lions cannot base its coaches on one off games.

I understand why you want Edwards to go on the tour. But personaly i just dont thnik it is possible too take him at this stage. Just my opinion you understand?

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Post by t1000advancedprototype on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:38 pm

Yes but it's not a one off game.
No try conceded since the 43rd min of round 1.
Tries scored in all 5 matches.

Stats you cannot ignore.

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Post by RubyGuby on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:41 pm

The irony for me is that Edwards is the englishman that's missing in the english set-up, his face and northern working class background just doesn't fit with the RFU and he released a lot of that pent up emotion from being rejected by them yesterday. thumbsup

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Post by Notch on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:45 pm

Understand your argument- was initially surprised by the omission of Edwards myself.

However, think once a coach reverses his decision he looks weak. Circumstances change, but the two coaches in question still have the same CVs and employ the same methods as they did when Gatland made the call. Only reason for a U-Turn is if you didn't give the matter enough consideration before hand and I'm certain he'll have given the decision to omit Edwards a lot of thought.
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Post by RubyGuby on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:49 pm

I think it's more of a privelage and respectful statement to Edwards to put him in charge of the national team thumbsup

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Post by welshboii15 on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:52 pm

The reason gats left Edwards behind was because Wales need him more than the lions and its not as if Farrell is a bad choice

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 6:53 pm

Notch wrote:Understand your argument- was initially surprised by the omission of Edwards myself.

However, think once a coach reverses his decision he looks weak. Circumstances change, but the two coaches in question still have the same CVs and employ the same methods as they did when Gatland made the call. Only reason for a U-Turn is if you didn't give the matter enough consideration before hand and I'm certain he'll have given the decision to omit Edwards a lot of thought.

I'll bet he thought Wales wouldn't steal a Championship from prospective Grand Slammers with a scoreline of 30 -3?

Oh I know what you mean Notch...but I'll bet the final outcome of this 6N never entered Gatland's head when he was doing all his thinking before it.

But I do think his thinking was more about creating a united British&Irish Lions., so you're right, he'll probably stick with his coaching unit but he'll also probably feel more free now to choose more Welsh players (on merit).

I don't know how he's going to honour the 'Irish' bit of the Lions though!!! He'll certainly have to do a lot of diplomatic thinking on that one.

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Post by welshboii15 on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 7:00 pm

Well if he took Edwards as well as howley that would just leave McBride in charge of Wales but he's done the right thing by taking the English pair because they are solid pair

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Post by Notch on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 7:13 pm

True that, but once the touring party arrives in Australia the Six Nations will mean little or nothing. The players who shine on Lions tours are often not outstanding in the Six Nations and even fly below the radar. Once the tour begins it's all about tour form and team building.

If Gatland has a grand design for this tour (and I'm sure he has a few things up his sleeve) it's predicated on more than "who's going to win/who won the Six Nations". I hope. If its the Wales set-up + the best of the rest we're much less likely to succeed than if its something thats built from the strengths of four nations. Wales have been the most consistent of the home nations for a while and will probably have the most tourists but we've got to be aiming to be better than Wales. And different too, given we're on our way to play Wales' bogey side. They have the worst recent record against the Aussies so we need to change it up a bit. Australia know the 'Welsh way' inside out. A few new coaches and a good dollop of different players should give us the edge to deliver a series victory.

The Irish contingent will take a deserved hit too I'm sure in terms of numbers, but there's still a few definites to tour and a few other likely tourists. Ireland and Scotland may be poor teams but take some of their best players out of those underachieving environments and put them in a Lions shirt and you have a number of potential test starters. After all, the deadwood in coaching and playing terms thats holding us back won't be there.

The big question re. Irish tourists is whether you pick guys who have missed the Six Nations or most of it through injury but are due to come back at the end of the season like Tommy Bowe, Johnny Sexton, Paul O'Connell.
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Post by 100%beefy on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 7:16 pm

RubyGuby wrote:The irony for me is that Edwards is the englishman that's missing in the english set-up, his face and northern working class background just doesn't fit with the RFU and he released a lot of that pent up emotion from being rejected by them yesterday. thumbsup

jaysus Ruby is it really that simple that he is just too rough round the edges, too northern, to be accepted by the RFU....shocking if you are right and the Lions snub was just that by hi scareer mentor, i still think Roger Lewis told Gatland he could have howley not Edwards because the former was making such a hash of the interim job. I also think Edwards has been promised the top job post Gatland because he quit irish soon after the Lions announcement

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:14 pm

Edwards was offered the Saxons job when he was at Wasps but he chose to take the Welsh defence job instead. Lancaster got the job instead iirc.

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Post by Ospreydragon on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:15 pm

I suspect Edwards not going has far more to do with politics than anything else -- there has to be balance in the coaching team and the squad for political reasons.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:17 pm

Ospreydragon wrote:I suspect Edwards not going has far more to do with politics than anything else -- there has to be balance in the coaching team and the squad for political reasons.

Or to start a joke:

A Scotsman (Irvine), Welshman, Kiwi and two Englishmen got on a plane..............

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Post by RubyGuby on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:18 pm

He saw the Saxons job as a snub, that's life, I think psychologically he's more comfortable in the welsh set up and that's not a WUM - the rugby culture and psyche is closer to his own:thumbsup:

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Post by Morgannwg on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:20 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
t1000advancedprototype wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
t1000advancedprototype wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:NO. Warren Gatland has made his mind up. And Edwards is not going with the Lions squad. End of.

Nothing is end of. Gatland is bossman. He can add whoever he wants.


That is true of course. But it would look a bit odd dont you think.

It would, but after this tournament it would be madness to omit Edwards. The lions want to win don't they?

Yes they do. But Wales have not exactly set the world alight lately. Yes they did win yesterday and they won very well in the end...But the Lions cannot base its coaches on one off games.

I understand why you want Edwards to go on the tour. But personaly i just dont thnik it is possible too take him at this stage. Just my opinion you understand?

madge, after yesterdays game the England players and coaches need to be as far away from the starting XV as possible.
thumbsup
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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:25 pm

RubyGuby wrote:He saw the Saxons job as a snub, that's life, I think psychologically he's more comfortable in the welsh set up and that's not a WUM - the rugby culture and psyche is closer to his own:thumbsup:

Maybe he did RubyRubyRubyRuby, but it was the only job available at the time. He was wanted, but he did not want to join. We all move on.

The assertion by whoever it was, that he is too working class, northern etc to be in the England set-up was rather ridiculous though. Andy Farrell, Stuart Lancaster and Graham Rowntree are not exactly of the "posh" variety.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:26 pm

Oh and these boards were full of people demanding his and Howleys sacking in December. We fans from all countries are ever so fickle Very Happy

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Post by Morgannwg on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:28 pm

Not Edwards' just Howleys. And Howley could still well get the sack.
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Post by 100%beefy on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:29 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Oh and these boards were full of people demanding his and Howleys sacking in December. We fans from all countries are ever so fickle Very Happy

Back in December howely deserved sacking, now he doesn't...that's the nature of sport and especially Welsh rugby...but he is not the future, Edwards is i just hope we can keep him post RWC

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:29 pm

LondonTiger wrote:

A Scotsman (Irvine), Welshman, Kiwi and two Englishmen got on a plane..............

They were flying at 30,000 feet when the Kiwi cocked his ear..."Did any of you guys hear that?"
"Don't be so jumpy, Gats - keep the cool. Stiff upper lip, mate" uttered the English men in unison
"No. No, I hear something vibrating. Irvine, will you look out there and see what's doing it?"

Irvine looked out and his face grew pale.... "Who got the contract on the flights, Gats? I forgot to look at the livery when I was getting on"

"Well, I was compelled to pick an Irish carrier to make up the Irish numbers, which are zilch inside the plane itself. Ryanair"

"Yeah," gulped Irvine. "I was thinking I couldn't recognise the blue and white engines... they're missing."

O'Leary laughs in his sparse bathroom head office. "That'll learn them, basterauds"

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Post by 100%beefy on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:30 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:

A Scotsman (Irvine), Welshman, Kiwi and two Englishmen got on a plane..............

They were flying at 30,00 feet when the Kiwi cocked his ear..."Did any of you guys hear that?"
"Don't be so jumpy, Gats - keep the cool. Stiff upper lip, mate" uttered the English men in unison
"No. No, I hear something vibrating. Irvine, will you look out there and see what's doing it?"

Irvine looked out and his face grew pale.... "Who got the contract on the flights, Gats? I forgot to look at the livery when I was getting on"

"Well, I was compelled to pick an Irish carrier to make up the Irish numbers, which are zilch inside the plane itself. Ryanair"

"Yeah," gulped Irvine. "I was thinking I couldn't recognise the blue and white engines... they're missing."

O'Leary laughs in his sparse bathroom head office. "That'll learn them, basterauds"

thought the vibration was the one wheeled chariot that had got loose in the hold


Last edited by 100%beefy on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RubyGuby on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 8:36 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:He saw the Saxons job as a snub, that's life, I think psychologically he's more comfortable in the welsh set up and that's not a WUM - the rugby culture and psyche is closer to his own👍

Maybe he did RubyRubyRubyRuby, but it was the only job available at the time. He was wanted, but he did not want to join. We all move on.

The assertion by whoever it was, that he is too working class, northern etc to be in the England set-up was rather ridiculous though. Andy Farrell, Stuart Lancaster and Graham Rowntree are not exactly of the "posh" variety.

There are those that become part of the establishment and those that don't fit in - No arguments here Tiger let's just be happy and respectful to differ - I will however reiterate that he is more comfortable in the welsh set up thumbsup

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Post by nganboy on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 11:46 pm

Why? Has Edwards got a good record against Australia?
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Post by Morgannwg on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 11:57 pm

Has Farrell? No, he's just a defence coach, he doesn't hold records over or against Australia.
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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 18 Mar 2013, 12:51 am

nganboy wrote:Why? Has Edwards got a good record against Australia?

Zing!
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Post by Knowsit17 on Mon 18 Mar 2013, 2:37 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
t1000advancedprototype wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
t1000advancedprototype wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:NO. Warren Gatland has made his mind up. And Edwards is not going with the Lions squad. End of.

Nothing is end of. Gatland is bossman. He can add whoever he wants.


That is true of course. But it would look a bit odd dont you think.

It would, but after this tournament it would be madness to omit Edwards. The lions want to win don't they?

Yes they do. But Wales have not exactly set the world alight lately. Yes they did win yesterday and they won very well in the end...But the Lions cannot base its coaches on one off games.

I understand why you want Edwards to go on the tour. But personaly i just dont thnik it is possible too take him at this stage. Just my opinion you understand?

Don't really understand your reasoning here. Edwards is defence coach, his job isn't exactly to make Wales set the world alight, just to ensure they ship the least points possible and to that end he's served his function impeccably this tournament, barring the first half against Ireland of course.

Personally I rate Edwards much higher than Farrell but I doubt going back on the original selection would be the right move both for ethical and professional reasons. As someone said earlier, it could cast Gatland in an indecisive light. And tbh I'm just chuffed we get to retain Edwards' services in the meantime.

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Post by nganboy on Mon 18 Mar 2013, 3:14 am

Pot Hale wrote:
nganboy wrote:Why? Has Edwards got a good record against Australia?

Zing!

Err I'm guessing that means you think I have made an excellent point. In which case ta! Very Happy
Knowsit probably said it better than me anyway.
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