The Gatland miracle

I'm just wondering how much do Welsh fans really appreciate the influence and affect Warren Gatland has had since he became head coach?

We are in a golden era which in my opinion has surpassed that of the 70's. I believe this because, it has been in the professional era and also there is one extra fixture that the old five nations didn't have.

Most part time rugby fans would think that the "good times" started in 2005. I disagree. 2005 was some very good skillful individual players playing some attractive running rugby from confidence gained by running NZ and South Africa close. Playes like Martyn Williams, Michael Owen, Peel, Henson, Shane Williams and Kevin Morgan all played with huge confidence throwing the ball anywhere. The reason I think things were not that great is because Wales still leaked a lot of tries from everyone except England.

In 2006 and 2007 the false dawn was exposed and Wales got battered in both Six Nations and a terrible world cup. Notable defensive disasters were against England and Ireland in 2006. Back to square 1.

It is only since the introduction of Gatland and Edwards that the following things have been instilled and progressively improved:

Defence
Aggression
Fitness
Never say die
A strict game plan
Bigger players
A huge focus on youth
More rewards on form and less favouritism (with exception of priestland).

The stats speak for themselves.

6 six nations tournaments since Gats/Howley took over:
Wales have won 3.
Played 30, won 22. Not bad at all compared with 2000-2007.
Wales lost two matches in 2009 by a total of 7 points, fourth on points difference, but to be 7 points from back to back slams is still encouraging.
2010 I believe was a blip. Messy game against England, handed match to France and got destroyed in Dublin.
2011 saw improvements from 2010 with the introduction of a nucleus of young superstars. This backbone plus leadership from the likes of Phillips and Adam Jones helped Wales to a decent world cup run and then steady progress since.

Wales showed great character coming back from disappointment in Australia and a poor autumn. Howley has redeemed himself and put 1 foot in the door post 2015. We all though the 2013 6N would be a bogey tournament due to Gatland's absence, but Howley eventually showed us why he's Gatland's right hand man.

I don't think Wales will have any difficulty improving. The depth in certain areas at the moment is frightening. There are many quality youngsters who didn't even get a sniff this year and the under 20's are a good side.

The only worry for me is that we will struggle to find anyone as effective as Adam Jones or Mike Phillips. Two unique players who affect the match so heavily. Then again I did have the same worries when Shane Williams retired, but then two monsters from the heavens landed on each wing.

Future looks bright but it is cold and calculated hard work, not a golden era.

Wales golden eras were born out of the quantity of people who played rugby at all ages throughout the country.

You don't see kids playing rugby anywhere near as much as you did back then, there are less clubs and schools taking the game as seriously as they did and we suffer for it.

We have a good team and we have improved our strength and depth in ten years twenty fold. We are doing the right things, but to be as good as we were in the seventies, early sixties or fifties we have a way to go. We were the best or second best in the world then.

We are fourth or fifth now.

Future looked bright 4 years ago too, after his first slam. Yet we failed to kick on from there.

A lot of us are getting ahead of ourselves with this tournament win. Yes, it was great because we had to come back from an opening day loss, but it means nothing if we then go into an autumn/summer series and carry on losing to the non-6N teams. SH wins are what is required to really show that he's taken us forward. Starting at home in the autumn would be nice.

Griff wrote:Future looked bright 4 years ago too, after his first slam. Yet we failed to kick on from there.

A lot of us are getting ahead of ourselves with this tournament win. Yes, it was great because we had to come back from an opening day loss, but it means nothing if we then go into an autumn/summer series and carry on losing to the non-6N teams. SH wins are what is required to really show that he's taken us forward. Starting at home in the autumn would be nice.

I don't think we failed to kick on, I think we did a lot of good, back in 06 and 07 too. We suffered injuries and we blooded players. That was very important in our development. Paul James, Bradley Davies, Sam Warburton, Ken Owens, Dan Lydiate, Toby Faletau, George North, Liam Davies, Jon Davies are all players blooded in those non GS winning periods.

We are building a good squad.

I think some of the areas pointed out by the OP are definitely ones Gatland has helped improve Wales in - certainly the conditioning side he's done a huge job, the Welsh team is now bigger, stronger, faster and fitter than the England side, which is something you'd never have thought possible 7 or 8 years ago.

One issue I do have though, and I said this before this tournament as well, is that I think the game plan adopted by Gatland is a little one dimensional. It's very much crash, bang, wallop and attritional. Nothing wrong with that, certainly when it's done well few teams can live with the pace and power of it. But as others have mentioned, beating the SH teams regularly requires more I think. SA just do that style of game better IMO, and conversely Oz have learnt to play against it and nullify it.

It could be a personnel thing (too much focus on brawn in the backs?) or it could be a coaching thing (not enough off loads and quick supporting players) but I think Gatland needs to add this to Wales' game for them to kick on. Could just involve getting in a top notch attacking/backs coach.

That said, he's done a top job and Wales already has the best NH team and are slowly building a wider squad to match.

Wales have clearly got a good team and an exceptional record in the 6N . However, unless and until they start consistently beating SH teams they can't be considered a great team. Over the past few seasons Eng, Fra, Ire (I think) and Sco have all beaten SH teams on one off occasions. It probably isn't since 2002/3 that a NH team have been able to reguarly win those games.

Wales should have beaten Aus at least once in 2012 but the fact that they didn't demonstrates that they still have some way to go. Difficult to say what it is they need to make that step up, it may just be a mental thing and if they get the first win it could make a big difference, but don't think they are too far off but definitely not there yet.

Gatland has done a bloody fine job however lets not go overboard, the Slams have been complimented by the 4ths and 5ths the following years, the glorious few weeks during the 6Ns have been superseded by your summer international tours and preceded by winter tours losses (as well as wins of course). Wasn't Gatland at one point during his tenure close on the worst coach Wales had employed (please correct me if I am wrong), and there was rumours that the WRU was going to do an Ireland and sacking him.

What Gatland has done is get rid of the "superstar prima donna syndrome" which had ruined the previous two coaches attempts, individuals who thought they were bigger than the team have now all but gone. Playing for the team has now replaced playing for yourself, quiet unassuming "never in the press" personas the likes of Halfpenny, Roberts, Biggar have replaced "Bling Byrne", "My Autobiography Divided The Dressing Room Henson", "I wanna play 10 or I will Scweeeeem Hook" and in my mind that's going to be Gatland biggest legacy.

On a comparison I think the way Howley and his coaching team have transformed Wales since his eight match losing streak is more impressive, he showed that you can be unassuming "get your head down" professionals and still produce scintillating exciting rugby. The feel good factor is even more apparent than last years 'slam. He has managed to do something than Gats has never done that's retain the 6Ns crown

Gatland has laid down a lot of very good basics with the squad. Defence, Conditioning, forward play, set piece and a style of game management that makes Wales hard to beat, even if the flip side of that is that we lack spontaneity in attack.

Being hard to beat will win more games than spontaneity will in the modern game.

Welsh confidence is still as fragile as ever, but our win loss record and IRB standing has been pretty good, gently improving year on year, even though we can go through runs of consecutive losses that baffle everyone.

Welsh Rugby has definitely improved dramatically in the last decade.

Gatland is a good coach, probably a very good coach and up there with the best - He has arrived at a time when Wales are having a number of very good players coming through and developing and he has stopped the headless chicken rugby. I have always said that if the 2005 Slam was built on sand then Gatland has added the cement to go with it. I don't think we need to eulogise too much about him but we are in a very good position and perhaps people on here are underestiamting how much regional rugby is helping to develop our young talent whilst the young english boys rarely play in important games in the english Premiership. Gatland has turned our priorities around from a striking attack as first priority to a secure defence as first priority. Rugby remains a simple game and I believe Wales will have a new found self-belief both individually and collectively after last weekend. Gatland should be able to enjoy the fruits of that

Maesteg / RubyGuby

I think both your top drawer posts says it all about Gatland, he has instilled and reinforced the basics, whilst hand in hand the progress of the regional setups are now reaping benefits for the International team. All looking very good for you guys

FHF - I have a wider picture of welsh rugby and have said all along that our regional set up is geared for national success not regional success. If one of our regions reaches the 1/4 finals of the HC then I'm happy - Why? because that's called being realistic with what you've got. Many non welsh fans don't like Gatland and to be fair he doesn't exactly endear himself, but that dislike is probably a back handed compliment. The foundations are there and I actually think Saturday was more of a seminal moment in the development of welsh rugby than it was for english rugby - it remains to be seen as these things can change very very quickly.

As an aside why oh why is Hines not packing down with you guys, something Gatland has been good at is getting players out of retirement ie Martin Williams who helped us win a slam

I also enjoy our debates FHF and love your passsion

RubyGuby wrote:Gatland is a good coach, probably a very good coach and up there with the best - He has arrived at a time when Wales are having a number of very good players coming through and developing and he has stopped the headless chicken rugby. I have always said that if the 2005 Slam was built on sand then Gatland has added the cement to go with it. I don't think we need to eulogise too much about him but we are in a very good position and perhaps people on here are underestiamting how much regional rugby is helping to develop our young talent whilst the young english boys rarely play in important games in the english Premiership. Gatland has turned our priorities around from a striking attack as first priority to a secure defence as first priority. Rugby remains a simple game and I believe Wales will have a new found self-belief both individually and collectively after last weekend. Gatland should be able to enjoy the fruits of that

I love reading anything you write. I have exact same opinions on the regional setup. It's helped transform the national side in the past ten years but it's definitely inclined to aid Wales instead of winning a Heineken cup.

You read a lot more than you think of what I write away from 606

RubyGuby wrote:You read a lot more than you think of what I write away from 606

Where else does one dispose his literary talents?

The Rhigos gazette?

urban dictionary ruby?

gowershowerpower wrote:urban dictionary ruby?

come on....spill.....

who/what do you write for?

gowershowerpower wrote:come on....spill.....

who/what do you write for?

I write for you Gower and any other interested parties

How about me finishing 2nd in the 6 Nations comp - amazing eh

Jesus, you guys are slow.

I've known it for years. Everytime Gatland is on TV Ruby ain't here.

Ruby IS Gatland................................and a very high opinion he has of himself too.

Steve Jones?

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Steve Jones?

I can actually write a balanced article

Orange Gavin is appearing for LW at Kingsholm tomorrow.
Do you think Gatland will show up check up on his long lost son ?

No - he will be in a hotel in Devon