Floyd Mayweather is not p4p number 1 anymore

I just don't think if he fought the likes of Donaire or Ward on a p4p basis he would win. Age and time out of the ring have taken their toll on his skillset, just as they do with everyone else and for me, Floyd is no longer the p4p king of the sport.

Anyone else agree? And if so, who do we put in his place?

Well Ward is injured at the moment so probably too soon for him. Donaire is the only other choice and if he beats Rigondeaux in style I think he will be knocking on the door. I think Mayweather needs not just to beat Guerrero but to really put in a top quality performance to remove some of the doubts that have been creeping in.

Ward is not he's only fought once the same as floyd and I think floyds performance over cotto at LMW was better then then wards against dawson at SMW this year

Doñaire is the only possible shout and altho he will never get to fight mares it's the same as floyd never fighting pacman! So don't hold that against them!

Doñaire has to win his next fight and keep up his standered of oppennet and if floyd has a bad performance against Guerrero and fails to fight alverez or a big name September then doñaire should be 1 but until floyd loses or doesn't fight a credible fight I can't put him anything but number 1

I dont think that Mayweather has to do any such thing Manos.

I feel he will handily beat Guerrero and will take on the likes of Alexander, Bradley, Khan, Alvarez etc by the end of his career.

For me his is P4P Number 1 by far and until his ring skillset earns him a convincing loss, he will stay at the top of the tree.

It's a tough one to call as the "mystical" P4P rankings are subject to so many opinions/sources.

Should Floyd remain at P4P#1 because of his consistancy in wins over Elite/World class opponents in different weight classes or drop because of a "what if scenario" of him being able to fight at Super Middleweight?

Personally I feel Nonito Donaire is criminally low on a number of lists (the Ring, ESPN and BoxRec). But I can't see how he (or Ward for that matter) nab the P4P spot. Maybe it's familiarity that keeps Floyd at Number 1?

Saying that Sean, when was the last time we did a 606 P4P ranking? December?

Hasn't floyd fought something like 23+ world champions either former champions or became champion after he fought them! Which is just a ridiculous standered of opposition

Bit lower than that I think, DITR. I think his 'world champions beaten count' was at something like fifteen or sixteen last time it was brought up on here.

I believe Oscar beat eighteen 'world champions' in his career, which is the record in that respect. Means little, though. Cloud was 'only' the fourteenth world champion that Hopkins has beaten but his career record comfortably outstrips De la Hoya's.

Diamond in the rough wrote:Hasn't floyd fought something like 23+ world champions either former champions or became champion after he fought them! Which is just a ridiculous standered of opposition

But is he p4p the best in the world now?

mobilemaster8 wrote:I dont think that Mayweather has to do any such thing Manos.

I feel he will handily beat Guerrero and will take on the likes of Alexander, Bradley, Khan, Alvarez etc by the end of his career.

For me his is P4P Number 1 by far and until his ring skillset earns him a convincing loss, he will stay at the top of the tree.

Well he needs to do it first. Hes fought a couple times in the last 2 years. A bizzare fight with Ortiz and a win over Cotto that indicated he might be on the downward trend. When you look at what Pacquaio and Trout did to Cotto it doesnt make Mayweathers performance look all that good. If he struggles by Guerrero and Donaire beats Rigondeaux well then personally I think theres a good case to think Donaire might usurp him. I think Mayweather needs to beat Guerrero and beat him well to hang on to his untouchable status at the top.

I say he is, just. I think it is a crossover moment. But, if he fought Broner now, today, he'd win. In fact, but for Ward's ability to bully and Donaire's speed, there aren't many out there, yet, who are better.

Good post.

I think familiarity is a major factor in the p4p rankings.

Most people still have Pacquiao at number 2 behind Floyd even though he is on the receiving end of 2 defeats. Robbery by Tim or not, he failed to deal with him in a way that is expected by a highly ranked fighter.

Tbh, Pacquiao should barely make the top 10 after his last fight

I think he outclassed Ortiz and frustrated him. Got a brilliant win against a big WW.

He then moved up in weight to fight Cotto and decided to fight in the trenches with him. Something he said he would do prior.

We cant compare what Pacquiao did to him as it was at a catchweight of 145lbs which was 7lbs under what Mayweather fought him at.

Id also go to say that Trout is a big LMW.

Its like comparing Ortiz to Broner at WW.

Well I think whatever way its cut Pacquais win over Cotto was far more impressive. I dont believe that Mayweather deliberately went to war with Cotto or whatever it was he said. I think his legs arent as good as they once were and his performance indicated he may be sliding. I dont think his fight with Ortiz was a brilliant win either.

The ortiz fight may not have been brilliant but he did show how good he is by frustrating ortiz. not claiming ortiz is an elite level fighter but he certainly isnt a push over, it was obvious ortiz was clueless on how to deal with mayweather hence the headbut.

In regards to the cotto fight, even if his legs arnt as goo as what they once were you have to give him credit for adapting though.

We will have to see how well he performs against Guerrero to have a sounder judgement on wether or not his on the slide or not, but for now i think he still deserves to be number 1, his skillset and mindset is pretty much faultless to say the least.

Makaveli wrote:The ortiz fight may not have been brilliant but he did show how good he is by frustrating ortiz. not claiming ortiz is an elite level fighter but he certainly isnt a push over, it was obvious ortiz was clueless on how to deal with mayweather hence the headbut.

In regards to the cotto fight, even if his legs arnt as goo as what they once were you have to give him credit for adapting though.

We will have to see how well he performs against Guerrero to have a sounder judgement on wether or not his on the slide or not, but for now i think he still deserves to be number 1, his skillset and mindset is pretty much faultless to say the least.

I would agree with that but the question is that is he the best fighter in the world as things stands now? He is an inactive boxer, and hes at an age when you expect he might start to slip. By ordinary standards, his last fight with Cotto was good but for a guy who is hands down meant to be the best in the world then it raises doubts I think. Which is why I think he needs a really top performance against Guerrero to dispel any doubts he might not be numero uno. On top of that you have had Ward and Donaire who have scored pretty decisive wins over big rivals recently. Ward might be out for a bit but if Donaire were to win decisively over Rigondeaux then he would have a fair argument I think unless Floyd could beat Guerrero convincingly.

In floyds last 2 fights he has fought and beat 2 top 20 P4P fighters and his 2 previous to that both ranked top 5 doñaire and ward are no where near that level

I still rate Floyd as #1 p4p but his space is open to be taken by the likes of Donaire and Ward when he is fit again.

It's dependent on his next 2 performances for me. If he handles Guerrero well and then takes on Alvarez or another big name and wins he will still be nailed on.

I will forgive a slow start or a bit of an off night against Guerrero due to his time away from the ring and spell inside prison, it may take him a while to shake off the ring rust. But if he gets through that and struggles in his next fight and Donaire puts in an excellent performance against Rigo and whoever he fights after I would lean to Floyd dropping to #2.

Age catches up with everyone, it will depend on how Floyd adapts his style to counteract the ageing process. But with his ring smarts I'd bet on him being able to stay at the top for a while yet.

Here's to hoping he gets through his 6 fight deal with Showtime. I'm not sure if I'd like him to remain unbeaten and retire or to lose in his final fight as a passing of the torch to an up and coming star.

I understand where your coming from manos, i think it all depends on how the rest of this year pans out for ward dnnaire and mayweather. Although currently i still have him as number 1 i think further down the year towards the back end of 2013, depending on if he fights alvarez or not i think he could slip down a place or 2

Diamond in the rough wrote:In floyds last 2 fights he has fought and beat 2 top 20 P4P fighters and his 2 previous to that both ranked top 5 doñaire and ward are no where near that level

Wards last two fights he outclassed Dawson and Froch who I would say were well worth top 20 pound for pound rankings. I would consider those two wins better than Mayweathers last two personally. Donaire has been on a hugely impressive run through the weights over the last few years. Dont agree at all that Mayweather is on a different level to them at the moment.

for me p4p means who would win if weights were even, and today i would put donaire and ward as favourites going into a hypothetical match up with floyd, but because of his acheivements i dont have a problem with being top, and until he is beaten i don't think many people will change their minds.

Diamond in the rough wrote:In floyds last 2 fights he has fought and beat 2 top 20 P4P fighters and his 2 previous to that both ranked top 5 doñaire and ward are no where near that level

In the same time period Donaire has proven himself to be the number one in two seperate divisions with wins over the P4P ranked Montiel and Nishioka. In total he's won 8 world title fights compared to 2 for Mayweather, to say he's no where near that level is far from the truth. He's been considered the number one man without too much complaint in three divisions now, he's right up there with Mayweather and rightly so.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

Diamond in the rough wrote:In floyds last 2 fights he has fought and beat 2 top 20 P4P fighters and his 2 previous to that both ranked top 5 doñaire and ward are no where near that level

In the same time period Donaire has proven himself to be the number one in two seperate divisions with wins over the P4P ranked Montiel and Nishioka. In total he's won 8 world title fights compared to 2 for Mayweather, to say he's no where near that level is far from the truth. He's been considered the number one man without too much complaint in three divisions now, he's right up there with Mayweather and rightly so.

My mistake forgot all about montiel that was a great win

manos de piedra wrote:

Diamond in the rough wrote:In floyds last 2 fights he has fought and beat 2 top 20 P4P fighters and his 2 previous to that both ranked top 5 doñaire and ward are no where near that level

Wards last two fights he outclassed Dawson and Froch who I would say were well worth top 20 pound for pound rankings. I would consider those two wins better than Mayweathers last two personally. Donaire has been on a hugely impressive run through the weights over the last few years. Dont agree at all that Mayweather is on a different level to them at the moment.

Agree with doñaire but not ward for me Dawson was in his own weight so I don't make that as good as cotto, froch I would say is better than Ortiz although being number 2 at SMW is the same as being ranked number 3-4 at WW when especially last year when pacman and mayweather wher clearly the top 2

i have ward and donaire ahead of flloyd now. cotto and peterson are not great victories at ww and lmw. flloyd has never even proven himself to be top dog at welterweight let alone light middle. i dont want to sound anti mayweather, as im not at all. but right now ward is much more worthy of pound for pound number 1 in my eyes

Lance wrote:i have ward and donaire ahead of flloyd now. cotto and peterson are not great victories at ww and lmw. flloyd has never even proven himself to be top dog at welterweight let alone light middle. i dont want to sound anti mayweather, as im not at all. but right now ward is much more worthy of pound for pound number 1 in my eyes

Peterson?

Diamond in the rough wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Diamond in the rough wrote:In floyds last 2 fights he has fought and beat 2 top 20 P4P fighters and his 2 previous to that both ranked top 5 doñaire and ward are no where near that level

Wards last two fights he outclassed Dawson and Froch who I would say were well worth top 20 pound for pound rankings. I would consider those two wins better than Mayweathers last two personally. Donaire has been on a hugely impressive run through the weights over the last few years. Dont agree at all that Mayweather is on a different level to them at the moment.

Agree with doñaire but not ward for me Dawson was in his own weight so I don't make that as good as cotto, froch I would say is better than Ortiz although being number 2 at SMW is the same as being ranked number 3-4 at WW when especially last year when pacman and mayweather wher clearly the top 2

I dont really have any issue with Mayweather being ranked 1. I would have him there myself as things stand right now. Im just arguing that I dont think his position there is as default as it used to be. I think Ward and Donaire have closed the gap considerably to the point where I think in the next 12 months there may be grounds for a change. I dont think Mayweather is miles above and on a different level to everyone else.

As for the rankings, Froch I think is far above Ortiz. Ortiz hadnt actually done a great deal other than be reasonably entertaining and outslugging Berto. Since then hes gone on to lose a fight he should have won easily. Froch I think had much better credentials and since then has scored a quality win over a fighter he was underdog against. I dont really think where they were ranked in their divisions matters all that much with perspective.

Dawson was not at his preffered weight which is true. Although he was the Ring light heavyweight champion and he was thoroughly dismantled by Ward. I can see why Cotto would be considered a better win, although I dont think LMW is Cottos best weight either and the fact he was handily beaten by Trout afterwards combined with the fact I didnt think Mayweathers performance in the fight was as impressive tainted it slightly much like Wards win over Dawson coming at SMW might have tainted that win a bit.

What I would also factor in is that I dont really think Ward has the same question marks Mayweather has due to Mayweathers advanced years. In the last few years Ward has dominated a very competitive division and also dominated the current light heavyweight champion and looks to be in or around his peak. I dont really think going back as far as the Marquez fight for Mayweather is as relevant because he has been inactive since then and has reached a much more advanced stage of his career compared to Ward. I also think the most recent showings of both indicate that Ward is operating close to his best where as Mayweather has faded. This is why I think he needs to beat Guerrero in impressive fashion to firmly re-assert his position at the top. If he wins by only a few rounds and Guerrero pushes him all the way then it would suggest to me he is past his best considerably and perhaps not actually the best fighter in the world anymore.

I'd put Donaire at No1 P4P.

Fighters from Feather downwards will never be no 1.........

They don't count.........I'm afraid.....

Floyd is still boss for now.

Donaire is 2 right now.

Hard for a small fighter to become p4p number 1...because of lack of interest mainstream....

One wag was pretty smart years ago when he said Nelson v Mcguigan wasn't a superfight because suoerfights take place higher up in weight..

He was being sarcastic but there was truth in the comment..

Nelson v Gomez should have been a massive fight between two great fighters but it wasn't....

I find it incredible that Donaire can go on the run that he has and on the main boxing sites etc. he hasn't got the recognition for the talent and the wins that he has had.

He's probably just usurped Ward in my view with what he has done in recent years (And Wards achievements at SMW are nothing to be sniffed at) At the same time I think Mayweather, with the glittering career he has had and the fact that his last fight was above his usual weight class and the fact the he is relatively small at WW anyway is just enough to keep him ontoop, also his incredible skills don't hurt him much either.