Blindside flanker choices for the Lions tour to Australia

First topic message reminder :

Six nations is done. We are a year on since I last held one of these polls and the long term aim was to compare what we selected a year out, a month out and the final squad.

You can pick one player only as your first choice.

I think I have grabbed most of the names in the hat, though my apologies if anyone you consider worthy has been forgotten, if you ask nicely then I am sure one of our excellent moderators might take the time to be kind enough to offer their much valued assistance.

The players included either showed in the Six Nations squads or have been regularly talked of as prospects on the various threads on here.

I have a feeling this poll should be close...

There are a number of players included who play both Openside and Blindside flanker or even all three. If you think that you would like to see a player at 6 vote here.

If you want to see them at 7 or at eight, you will have to wait until that poll is launched.


Looseheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42452-loosehead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Hookers - https://www.606v2.com/t42471-hooker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Tightheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42486-tighthead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Lock No. 4 - https://www.606v2.com/t42501-number-4-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956467

Lock no. 5 - https://www.606v2.com/t42502-number-5-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Openside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42515-ospenside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956975

Number 8 - https://www.606v2.com/t42518-number-eight-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958144

Scrumhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42531-scrumhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Flyhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42539-flyhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958609

glamorganalun wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:For me I can't see how anyone could pick anyone but tips and Warburton as the flankers.

They showed they are a level above in the six nations.

The only reason Wales got away picking two 7's is because the Wales front 5 murdered the England front 5, also England had three 6's playing in the back row while Wales had an 8 and a 7 playing in their correct positions. If Wales were up against a big pack like SA or a big England pack of old Wales would struggle. I rather R Jones at 6 as in the previous three matches of the 6N that built up to the England win.

SOB, Robshaw and Brown played 7 during the 6N, why are they suddenly the first choice for 6 in the poll but not good enough for their Country.

Spot on Alun
Exactly right, No specialist 8 to protect the scrum half channel, and no open-side to cut off the 10-12 axis meant that England were caught between a rock and a hard place and as a result Phillips and Roberts had one of their best games for a long while. I would say if Morgan was running at Phillips/Biggar then it could well have been a different game. Also the front three particularly when Owen came on gave front five stability and as you say drove England back time after time, leaving the Welsh flankers with an easier than expected ride (not saying that they both played superb).

I am totally with you re:Ryan Jones he is quite superb at 6 and as a captain and would select before anyone (except for Lydiate who must travel as the Lions have what 5 or 6 matches before the test)

With regard to Brown you are right he rarely berths at blindside for us but is a regular 6 for his club this season, and he can play blindside with ease as he is the nearest thing you can get to Lydiate as a tackling monster

FHF,

Would you really take Lydiate? (Not sure if you are being a bit sarcastic, sorry). I could justify it in that he's a bit different as a 6 to the rest of the options (in a defensive sense) and now he is leaving Dragons, I am not so concerned about him not being ready for us next season, but I hope he is sent to Japan in the summer with Wales. I think we may well see four Welsh backrowers tour, but I would be shocked to see Danny travel.

Robshaw, SOB & Brown clear winners.

Risca Rev wrote:FHF,

Would you really take Lydiate? (Not sure if you are being a bit sarcastic, sorry). I could justify it in that he's a bit different as a 6 to the rest of the options (in a defensive sense) and now he is leaving Dragons, I am not so concerned about him not being ready for us next season, but I hope he is sent to Japan in the summer with Wales. I think we may well see four Welsh backrowers tour, but I would be shocked to see Danny travel.

I really would....... I think he is genuine world class as a traditional blindside

I think his upper body strength is untrue, his low projectory tackling is second to none (if he hits you "you stay hit"), and if you play an out and out seven like a Rennie or Tips along with a passive 8 like Faletau then we are going to be in trouble if we bring in a more modern lighter/faster blindside. I have always said I would select Lydiate or Ryan Jones as the Lions blindside unfortunately both are injured or just coming back.

I think we have what one or two Pro12 games and about 5-6 Lions games before the test. We have to seriously look at our potentially best players and the key positions, IMHO the 6 shirt is one of the key positions down OZ, especially if we play Phillips at 9 then he needs a couple more seconds than say Youngs and that's where Lydiate will come into his own.

I would select..... if all players were match fit and on form the day before the 1st test

8 Ryan Jones or Beattie
7 Rennie
6 Lydiate

flyhalffactory wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:FHF,

Would you really take Lydiate? (Not sure if you are being a bit sarcastic, sorry). I could justify it in that he's a bit different as a 6 to the rest of the options (in a defensive sense) and now he is leaving Dragons, I am not so concerned about him not being ready for us next season, but I hope he is sent to Japan in the summer with Wales. I think we may well see four Welsh backrowers tour, but I would be shocked to see Danny travel.

I really would....... I think he is genuine world class as a traditional blindside

I think his upper body strength is untrue, his low projectory tackling is second to none (if he hits you "you stay hit"), and if you play an out and out seven like a Rennie or Tips along with a passive 8 like Faletau then we are going to be in trouble if we bring in a more modern lighter/faster blindside. I have always said I would select Lydiate or Ryan Jones as the Lions blindside unfortunately both are injured or just coming back.

I think we have what one or two Pro12 games and about 5-6 Lions games before the test. We have to seriously look at our potentially best players and the key positions, IMHO the 6 shirt is one of the key positions down OZ, especially if we play Phillips at 9 then he needs a couple more seconds than say Youngs and that's where Lydiate will come into his own.

I would select..... if all players were match fit and on form the day before the 1st test

8 Ryan Jones or Beattie
7 Rennie
6 Lydiate

+1 with Tipuric/Rennie

I'd take Wood and Brown at blindside; both graft, tackle, disrupt, carry and lead.

O'Brien goes as utility back-row, not sure what his best position is but he always has an impact with ball in hand.

Tipuric and Armitage at openside; both in form, genuine open-sides at breakdown but also offer a running threat.

No Warburton or Robshaw

Lydiate was very good last year but is over-rated in my opinion, great defender but so was Joe Worsley and he certainly wasn't considered World Class. I'd prefer a fit Ferris, Zanni or Lobbe because they defend and are a threat with ball in hand.

reallybored wrote:I'd take Wood and Brown at blindside; both graft, tackle, disrupt, carry and lead.

O'Brien goes as utility back-row, not sure what his best position is but he always has an impact with ball in hand.

Tipuric and Armitage at openside; both in form, genuine open-sides at breakdown but also offer a running threat.

No Warburton or Robshaw

Lydiate was very good last year but is over-rated in my opinion, great defender but so was Joe Worsley and he certainly wasn't considered World Class. I'd prefer a fit Ferris, Zanni or Lobbe because they defend and are a threat with ball in hand.

A blindside surely by its very nature is not meant to be a threat with ball in hand but primarily to hit the channel and defend the scrum half channel. Its all opinion but Armitage over Warburton come on, and even tho I am a passionate Scot Lydiate is a country mile ahead of Brown and more so Wood

Scott Lydiate FHF, get off the whisky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He aint no Scott whichever way you look at it

Warburton's form hasn't been anywhere near good enough, most Welsh posters were calling for Tipuric pre-6Ns. A couple turn-overs against Scotland and all of a sudden he's a world-beater, give me a break.

Armitage is a brilliant player and in good form for Toulon, he's potentially a game changer. Strong over the ball in defence and a real threat with ball in hand.

The best couple blind-sides in recent memory were Kanio and Smith, both great defenders but effective ball carriers as well. (same can be said about Collins, Elsom, Bonnaire, Ferris). In my opinion Lydiate doesn't do enough in this respect, a cracking player no doubt but not World Class yet

Both Brown and Wood are in the mould of Hill, not the biggest hitters but always grafting, providing the extra set of hands, getting to a ruck first, carrying the slow ball or being a nuisance.

FHF where is the scrum-half channel? From experience, most 9s tend to stand behind the defensive line and sweep.

You take the guys that are fit, in form and delivering on the big stage.

Last season you'd have taken Lydiate in a heartbeat but he doesn't fit that profile right now.

Wood and Brown do.

reallybored wrote:Warburton's form hasn't been anywhere near good enough, most Welsh posters were calling for Tipuric pre-6Ns. A couple turn-overs against Scotland and all of a sudden he's a world-beater, give me a break.

Armitage is a brilliant player and in good form for Toulon, he's potentially a game changer. Strong over the ball in defence and a real threat with ball in hand.

The best couple blind-sides in recent memory were Kanio and Smith, both great defenders but effective ball carriers as well. (same can be said about Collins, Elsom, Bonnaire, Ferris). In my opinion Lydiate doesn't do enough in this respect, a cracking player no doubt but not World Class yet

Both Brown and Wood are in the mould of Hill, not the biggest hitters but always grafting, providing the extra set of hands, getting to a ruck first, carrying the slow ball or being a nuisance.

FHF where is the scrum-half channel? From experience, most 9s tend to stand behind the defensive line and sweep.

From Experience?..........If you have played the game, then the blindside is primarily there to protect the scrum half channel i.e. to stop the scrum half from being hit by the oncoming player/s that is why the 6 is normally a bigger unit than the 7 for that very reason. I would say anybody who has played the game from U14 level would understand that. The modern game now sees the flankers playing left/right or even inside/outside all themes but now realising that both flankers are slowly equalising in size and speed, and you see the 8 shoring up the protection for the half backs. The 9 channel is nothing to do with how a scrum half operates!

I am not going to argue Warburton v Armitage as there really isn't an argument, suffice to say Warbs was injured and Ryan Jones took his place, he came back into the side when Ryan was injured and immediately MOM against us, and could well have been given the MOM playing at 6 against England. To say that he didn't play well against class opposition is well.......showing that you might not have watched the Scotland match, and in the final match he absolutely had Robshaw in his pocket and Croft at times........ and I am not Welsh. We cannae compare Armitage as I don't think he was even in the any of England match 22/23. By the way to end on this Armitage hasn't been a nailed on regular for Toulon this season, don't want to rain on your parade fellar but look at their match stats or even better watch it on the box

flyhalffactory wrote:

reallybored wrote:I'd take Wood and Brown at blindside; both graft, tackle, disrupt, carry and lead.

O'Brien goes as utility back-row, not sure what his best position is but he always has an impact with ball in hand.

Tipuric and Armitage at openside; both in form, genuine open-sides at breakdown but also offer a running threat.

No Warburton or Robshaw

Lydiate was very good last year but is over-rated in my opinion, great defender but so was Joe Worsley and he certainly wasn't considered World Class. I'd prefer a fit Ferris, Zanni or Lobbe because they defend and are a threat with ball in hand.

A blindside surely by its very nature is not meant to be a threat with ball in hand but primarily to hit the channel and defend the scrum half channel. Its all opinion but Armitage over Warburton come on, and even tho I am a passionate Scot Lydiate is a country mile ahead of Brown and more so Wood

Nothing wrong with Blinside being a threat ball in hand, more of a power threat though. We used to do back row moves down the blindside with the 6. Mostly the Openside needs to be a bit quicker to make the 10's life hell

Hard to single out individuals but as far as touring is concerned I think Wood is still nailed on and Barclay has to be a banker as well

When competition in the backrow is so fierce, I will never understand why people keep touting for recenlty returning from injury, lack of international fitness players to go on the lions!!!

Lydiate has been out for a year ffs. I'm sorry, but there are other just as good 6's out there right now that we dont need to pick Lydiate.

Rennie, although he has only been out for a couple of months, is another who missed the 6N's and with Tipuric on form you cannot justify Rennie as being the choice 7.

The only issue I see is where you play Brown or Robshaw. They are 6's who have been playing at 7!!!

But Brown/Robsaw are surely the 6's for the lions tests and Tips/warburton the 7's???

tigertattie actually Brown has played pretty much all his rugby at 6.

Only recently Brown has been playing at 7 for Scotland because the Scottish coaches are barmy.

Robshaw on the other hand has played most of his recent rugby at 7 - club and internationals.

When has September to March ever been a year? Why do people keep regurgitating this about Lydiate? I don't want him to tour as such, but can people please stop exaggerating about him.

September to March is pretty much the whole rugby season though

But it isn't a year. More half. At least he will get plenty of tackling practise tomorrow at Ravenhill.

Risca Rev wrote:When has September to March ever been a year? Why do people keep regurgitating this about Lydiate? I don't want him to tour as such, but can people please stop exaggerating about him.

Rev,

I don't think its an exaggeration though, we have seen in the past he has remarkable powers of recovery and whilst you I don't want him tour, let him go to Japan and be on call maybe - but I wouldn't be surprised if he does.

Like has been quoted he will get plenty of tackling practice tonight.

Another weekend done and dusted. The squad to be announced after the next...!

Was this just you bumping your threads to the top of the board? Haven't really added enough to be worthy of posting on each individual thread!

Can we get a separate Lions section to avoid all this spamming in the International section?

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Can we get a separate Lions section to avoid all this spamming in the International section?

Or better still, just get him not bumping the poxy threads and clogging up a section all at once. Not annoying in the slightest Maesteg.

Risca Rev wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Can we get a separate Lions section to avoid all this spamming in the International section?

Or better still, just get him not bumping the poxy threads and clogging up a section all at once. Not annoying in the slightest Maesteg.

Robshaw. Veyr good all round player and althoguh plays 7 for englans he is definitely a 6. He is a strong player as he can help get a dominent pack on the front foot.

Lydiate 19 unassissted tackles and 10 tackle assissts 14 rucks hit against Munster on Friday well on his way back

irnbrew wrote:Lydiate 19 unassissted tackles and 10 tackle assissts 14 rucks hit against Munster on Friday well on his way back

Really good game and Lydiate and Faletau at the heart of it. Both successfully pushing hard for their inclusion. A fit and ready Dan Lydiate will have a hugely positive effect on this lions tour.

I rather have him playing on the Wales tour and let him fully recover. Playing against a second string Munster is not a test of his fitness for test matches but a good step forward in coming back towards full fitness. If Dan and other Lions contenders go on the Wales tour they may get called up due to injuries to the selected Lions players and being in Japan they will not have to travel half way around the world to get to Australia.

My views are Lydiate are well known and he would be first name on any team sheet i picked.

That said I would like to see him go to Japan and get back full fitness under less intense pressure, then if he gets the call as replacement for injury fair enough.

If Lydiate didn't make the lions I would rather that maybe he didn't take on a full roll in Japan, as I think other players might benfit more than him by starting.

That said, those players would also benefit by training and playing with such a fantastic lad.

He is an immense player. Either way, I am just happy to see him recover from another atrocious injury, to see him playing great rugby and always with that infectious smile he has.

maestegmafia wrote:If Lydiate didn't make the lions I would rather that maybe he didn't take on a full roll in Japan, as I think other players might benfit more than him by starting.

That said, those players would also benefit by training and playing with such a fantastic lad.

He is an immense player. Either way, I am just happy to see him recover from another atrocious injury, to see him playing great rugby and always with that infectious smile he has.

I think a Spring roll in Japan is just what Lydiate needs

RubyGuby wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:If Lydiate didn't make the lions I would rather that maybe he didn't take on a full roll in Japan, as I think other players might benfit more than him by starting.

That said, those players would also benefit by training and playing with such a fantastic lad.

He is an immense player. Either way, I am just happy to see him recover from another atrocious injury, to see him playing great rugby and always with that infectious smile he has.

I think a Spring roll in Japan is just what Lydiate needs

Sushi roll maybe...?

I like sushi and sake....

flyhalffactory wrote:I like sushi and sake....

I think both of them have had to pull out of the Japanese squad for the welsh tour. Shame, I was looking forward to both of them coming up against Rhys Gill and Dan Fish. I think they would struggle though if Hook is playing