Blindside flanker choices for the Lions tour to Australia

First topic message reminder :

Six nations is done. We are a year on since I last held one of these polls and the long term aim was to compare what we selected a year out, a month out and the final squad.

You can pick one player only as your first choice.

I think I have grabbed most of the names in the hat, though my apologies if anyone you consider worthy has been forgotten, if you ask nicely then I am sure one of our excellent moderators might take the time to be kind enough to offer their much valued assistance.

The players included either showed in the Six Nations squads or have been regularly talked of as prospects on the various threads on here.

I have a feeling this poll should be close...

There are a number of players included who play both Openside and Blindside flanker or even all three. If you think that you would like to see a player at 6 vote here.

If you want to see them at 7 or at eight, you will have to wait until that poll is launched.


Looseheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42452-loosehead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Hookers - https://www.606v2.com/t42471-hooker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Tightheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42486-tighthead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Lock No. 4 - https://www.606v2.com/t42501-number-4-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956467

Lock no. 5 - https://www.606v2.com/t42502-number-5-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Openside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42515-ospenside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956975

Number 8 - https://www.606v2.com/t42518-number-eight-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958144

Scrumhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42531-scrumhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Flyhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42539-flyhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958609

ChequeredJersey wrote:I think Ryan Jones is a good player and a possibility to Tour with the Lions, but I've never seen him boss a game either, whilst I have seen Robshaw basically prevent a mauling by SA all by himself in the breakdown and win 2 MOTMs this 6N. Ditto Brown. You are entitled to your opinion, Dragonbreath, and I agree that class players return to good form after time off form or injured. Just like Wood, Brown and Robshaw have done in the last 2 years. The galvanisation thing you mention is exactly the way that Robshaw (despite his decision making at times) and Brown lead and have been praised by people who know a lot more about International rugby (like those who have excelled at it) than I'm assuming you do. So your arguments don't really hold up. They seem to be in favour of the other players you say are worse than Jones, actually, unless I'm missing something or my logic isn't working today (hint: it is).

Yeh I am wrong. Robshaws leadership against Aus, Italy and Wales was just mesmeric. Clueless headless chicken. Robshaw is a arse up head down donkey no more no less. All of the people praising Robshaw, Wood etal are employed by the English media, what do you expect them to say. Oh the England captain is a plodder, where is my cheque, do you want me to write something next week?

Form your own opinion and take what pundits say less seriously if I were you

20 votes each for SOB, Brown and Robshaw!!

Someone fax this to Gatland ASAP!! 606v2 have spoken!

This is a really close category. Either one of the top 3 leaders in this poll wouldn't let anyone down. Add to that players like Jones and Wood it's crazy to think that some of these players will be left behind.

So close to call. I think Harley and O'Mahoney both had good individual tournaments too, and the fact that they've got no/few votes is a testament to how close this position is going to be contested. They all bring their own game to the table- O'Brien with his carrying, Robshaw and Brown with their work rate, Lydiate and Wood with their tackling.

There's going to be a lot riding on the mid week games!

bedfordwelsh wrote:I do think Jones will tour due to his experience, leadership of late and his ability to play back row (6 & 8) and 2nd row

You could say the same of Kelly Brown too except he can't cover 2nd row but can cover 7.




bazalicious Why would Lydiate tour?

Gatland would seriously lose credibility if he picks Lydiate.

I wouldn't pick him personally, but i think Gatland will pick him. Gatland has never cared what people think of him.

bsando wrote:20 votes each for SOB, Brown and Robshaw!!

Someone fax this to Gatland ASAP!! 606v2 have spoken!

Yeh because there are no Frak idiots on here are there

dragonbreath wrote:

bsando wrote:20 votes each for SOB, Brown and Robshaw!!

Someone fax this to Gatland ASAP!! 606v2 have spoken!

Yeh because there are no Frak idiots on here are there

If you can tell me what Ryan Jones does better than these 3 I'll accept your comments as more than trying to get a bite out of people or your national Bias.

Tom Wood isn't even getting a look in on this poll and he was fantastic in the 6N. Jones is currently injured and his club will be unlikely to feature in the ERC or Pro12 play offs.

Ryan Jones is a great player but the evidence suggests that being injured, and not getting a chance to prove himself over the next couple of weeks will have damaged his chances.

Ryan Jones has nothing to prove over the next few weeks Radge - He did it in the 6 Nations at a higher level than the rest of the games and Gatland knows him very very well of course. SOB, Brown and Robshaw have all flattered to deceive with perhaps Robshaw being the most consistent. SOB remains the best out of that lot IMO

You don't think the Ospreys will make the Rabo playoffs Radge? I'd be surprised if they didn't. Don't think they'll get past the semis this year though.

dragonbreath wrote:

bsando wrote:20 votes each for SOB, Brown and Robshaw!!

Someone fax this to Gatland ASAP!! 606v2 have spoken!

Yeh because there are no Frak idiots on here are there

Ha, took a while but he reeled out another!

I have said for ages that I rate Jones as a Player, I do think he is fantastic. When Lydiate was on the cusp of coming back to full fitness I said that Welsh posters who were calling for him to come in and replace Jones were mad men. That comment still stands.

I think Ospreys will most likely have a chance but I was meaning more to do with his injury, is he back playing yet? I reckon Ospreys will be in the playoffs but Jones might not be.

What is the word with his injury?

Jones is an excellent player, and he proved it over the Six Nations. Whether he's done enough to separate himself from the other fine candidates is the real question.

Lydiate in 13 = Wilkinson in 05

Been out with a long term injury, will take a long time to get back to full fitness.... difficult to justify.

I'd go with Jones or Croft in the test side.

Reading through the comments, I think it is a compliment to SOB to say he is out of form, as although he wasn't as spectacular as he can be, he was easily Ireland's best player in the 6N.

Part of me thinks that two of Chris Robshaw, Kelly Brown and Sean O'Brien might not even make the tour despite their popularity.

That Ryan Jones or Heaslip will supercede them for leadership qualities and experience in the coaches opinions. Still a chance that Lydiate will be given a wild card too.

There ae going to be dissappointed fans somewhere this is a very tough position. The competition is fantastic.

Competition at blindisde is completely crazy.

I'm not sure that Gats will even look at the numbers on player's backs - he'll just choose the loose forward sets he wants to work with.

Still laugh at the wildly differing treatment of players back after long layoffs. Lydiate is barely back on a pitch and yet for a staggering number of people he's included in the touring party for the most intensive test series in the modern game. Conversely, Ross Rennie (who folded Pocock into a box the last time he played him and so presumably is a good bet to do the same with Gill or Hooper) is not. No apparent reason why other than the fact most Scots posters are clear eyed enough to know that reaching Lions tourist standard from a standing start is exceptionally hard.

I'm sorry but calls for Heaslip seems crazy to me. By his standards (best NH 8 in 2008-2009) he played like a heavily anaesthetised donkey in the 6N. Did people even watch it? Or have they just forgotten already???

George,

Lydiate is a machine, the guy has broken his neck and reached the standard he has reached, he also returned in double quick time after his last injury.

That said I don't think he will get enough 'quality' rugby under his belt netween now and the squad announcement, I expect him to go to Japan with Wales and be named on the Lions reserve list in case of injuries etc.

fa0019 wrote:Lydiate in 13 = Wilkinson in 05

Been out with a long term injury, will take a long time to get back to full fitness.... difficult to justify.

I'd go with Jones or Croft in the test side.

Absolutely crazy to play players out of position to that extent. No way Lydiate is a centre or Wilkinson a lock.

I have the funny feeling that Gatland will go for an all Wales back row. I can honestly see him picking at some stage of the match Faletau, Tipuric and Warburton, with players like SOB or Robshaw on the bench. For me the backrow needs to be used as a link to the outside backs. Australia are too canny to be tested by the Lions pack punching up the middle. The ball needs to be taken away further from the contact area and you need players who can offload the ball and link up with the backs. Combinations also count probably the most in the backrow in this regard and those last few 6N tests will stand out in Gatland's mind more than the club scene later.

Individually I don't think that back three is the best but as a unit and the type of game they can play for the Lions, it's the back three I'd go for in the Australian tests and it's the one Australia would least like to face. Tipuric is the key difference to the tests Wales played against Australia. I don't think they'd like to see that combination but a back three of Scotland, England and Ireland for instance might individually stand out but would not have cohesion and balance in their favour.

Has the vote ended for everytime i try to cast a vote it does not register

maestegmafia wrote:Part of me thinks that two of Chris Robshaw, Kelly Brown and Sean O'Brien might not even make the tour despite their popularity.

That Ryan Jones or Heaslip will supercede them for leadership qualities and experience in the coaches opinions. Still a chance that Lydiate will be given a wild card too.

There ae going to be dissappointed fans somewhere this is a very tough position. The competition is fantastic.

Heaslip? For leadership?

Kelly Brown - 21 tackles today in the HC - sounds like laying down a marker for his ticket.

Would you rather have a Kelly Brown playing at his very best or lydiate coming back from serious injury with little game time

Now now, TJ, the QFs aren't over yet and there are some flanker (and Captaincy) candidates, whose names may or may not rhyme with Bris Bobshaw, who are yet to play their hands

Aye - but Brown has done what he can and I thought it an interesting question. Its the last few chances to shine for all the candidates.

TJ wrote:Kelly Brown - 21 tackles today in the HC - sounds like laying down a marker for his ticket.

Would you rather have a Kelly Brown playing at his very best or lydiate coming back from serious injury with little game time

No.I am not walking into that one!!

Brown could feel hard done by if he misses out this summer, his form has been top notch since returning from injury.

I'd take Wood and Brown as my two blindsides, O'Brien as a utility, 2 of Tipuric, Robshaw, Armitage and Warburton at open-side.

21 tackles in one match and missed none? That is an incredible shift.

Brown and SOB have both had stormers this weekend.

Over to you, Bobshaw.

Chris Robshaw is rubbish he shouldn't even be in the England team even at his club Luke Wallace is a better 7. Stuart Lancaster made a terrible decision naming Robshaw as captain which has unbalanced England's back row

Chris Robshaw is a 6 but the problem is we have guys like Tom Croft, Tom Wood who are better

At 8 we have guys like Ben Morgan, Billy Vunipola for me Robshaw shouldn't be going to the lions Tour

The only English back rowers Gatland should pick are Croft, Wood, Morgan or Vunipola

If that's your opinion John, you're entitled to it. Not sure anyone is suggesting him at 8, but I'll let Chris do his arguing on the pitch. Like he has for the past 14 months for England and, what, 4/5 years for Quins?

Taffineastbourne wrote:

TJ wrote:Kelly Brown - 21 tackles today in the HC - sounds like laying down a marker for his ticket.

Would you rather have a Kelly Brown playing at his very best or lydiate coming back from serious injury with little game time

No.I am not walking into that one!!

i watched the game today and Kelly Brown where did they get the stats from no way did i see him make 21 tackles and for sure he did miss tackles .and this is not a criticisum of Kelly Brown it is a criticisum of the stats

irnbrew wrote: i watched the game today and Kelly Brown where did they get the stats from no way did i see him make 21 tackles and for sure he did miss tackles .and this is not a criticisum of Kelly Brown it is a criticisum of the stats

there were 3 players with the same scrum cap on the Sarries team. It was at times hard to tell who was who. I did not see Brown miss a tackle - though I did accuse him of it - only to see it was a different Sarrie player on replay.

Kelly Brown played a fantastic game yesterday. Serious marker for himself to go on tour. Ignore the amazing tackle stats it was who he tackled and why that were more important. He stopped aver good Ulster team flat footed.

Complimenting that performance was a man who I thought also deserved great credit, Iain Henderson. Fantastic barraging runs tackling stealing grafting. Great player.

maestegmafia wrote:Kelly Brown played a fantastic game yesterday. Serious marker for himself to go on tour. Ignore the amazing tackle stats it was who he tackled and why that were more important. He stopped aver good Ulster team flat footed.

Complimenting that performance was a man who I thought also deserved great credit, Iain Henderson. Fantastic barraging runs tackling stealing grafting. Great player.

+1 Both looked special.

Was angered by the idiot who reported on this for the Torygraph, who mentioned that Sarries players had put themselves in the shop windown for the Lions - going on to specifically mention only Ashton, Farrell and Barritt - two of whom aren't looking all that likely to be on the plane at the moment.

Really hope Brown doesn't pay the price for being low-key and unfashionable.

GC, if Gatland only reads the Torygraph, our problems are far deeper than we could have imagined!

Of the Saracens performance it was Fraser, Joubert (number8 ?) Brown, Britz, Tompkins and Wigglesworth that made the difference. Not Barritt, Farrell or Ashton.

Hope Fraser (and Kruis) goes to Argentina this Summer, he's class and the "true 7" everyone seems to love.

Could see an England touring backrow mix of Kvesic, Fraser, Guest, Vunipola, Morgan, Savage which gives some nice combos

ChequeredJersey wrote:Hope Fraser (and Kruis) goes to Argentina this Summer, he's class and the "true 7" everyone seems to love.

Could see an England touring backrow mix of Kvesic, Fraser, Guest, Vunipola, Morgan, Savage which gives some nice combos

Fraser and Kvesic look very useful... England can't try to continue with three players who are all effectively in sure of their best backrow position. When they faced a coehesive until like Wales's Sam Toby and tips it showed them up

Will Fraser should be England's 7 he's been superb this season ball carrying, winning turnovers, physicality, makes breaks, incredible work rate even scoring tries

I think he's been Saracen's best player this season

He's far superior to Chris Robshaw in every aspect of the game in my opinion.

Chris Robshaw' leadership qualities are non-existent look at the way he was being bossed around by Owen Farrell a 20 year old kid

Can someone answer me on this:

What does Lydiate offer over Kelly Brown? Again, Brown was fantastic last night and played a huge part in beating Ulster ( ).

Not only does he put in a huge number of tackles, but he is heavily involved at the breakdown. Wasn't he the top turnover specialist in the 6 nations despite playing out of position?

For me it is between SOB and Brown for the 6 shirt. Depending on the 7 and 8 chosen.

For me I can't see how anyone could pick anyone but tips and Warburton as the flankers.

They showed they are a level above in the six nations.

flyhalffactory wrote:You cant have THREE backrow ball carriers, against an Oz front five and a Pocock style openside which they favour, Plus the blindside will still have to be an enforcer, someone who makes the big hits. You saw today how the Blues negated Hibbard and Tuperic with a low trajectory and mobile front five. If Lydiate isn't fit then you have to go with Brown, immense in the breakdown and his tackle count is second to none

Why not?

I never understand comments such as these. Is the "non-carrying option" in the back row going to throw the ball away because he isn't a ball carrier? All 3 will have to carry when the game calls for it.

Look at McCaw, he is a fantastic ball carrier, but that doesn't mean he isn't fantastic in the other aspects of his game. Or to use an option for the Lions, Tipuric offers so much in attack at 7, as well as his defensive feats. If a player can excel at more than one aspect of his game, that isn't a bad thing. That is what separates the best players from the rest.

maestegmafia wrote:For me I can't see how anyone could pick anyone but tips and Warburton as the flankers.

They showed they are a level above in the six nations.

I did say that last season Wales should consider this combination, and it seems to have paid off. However they have only had one full game as a combination, and Warburton only began playing well near the end of the competition.

To be fair, Robshaw didn't cover himself in glory today

ChequeredJersey wrote:Now now, TJ, the QFs aren't over yet and there are some flanker (and Captaincy) candidates, whose names may or may not rhyme with Bris Bobshaw, who are yet to play their hands

Was he playing?

Yes, Robshaw had a poor game by his standards.

Hopefully Gatland will give everyone a fair shake when it comes to considering their form across a number of games.

Unlike our current sporting press who act like a feral toddler high on M&Ms and profess instant Lions inclusion when an internationalist has a single good game.

Why was Robshaw so anonymous? What went wrong for him?

TJ wrote:Why was Robshaw so anonymous? What went wrong for him?

Basically, TJ, he just didn't play well but at the same time it would be completely disingenuous not to mention that the young man from Tip, Tommy O'Donnell didn't let him play - he was all over him like the press over a Kardashian. Probably the best game I've ever seen him have.

maestegmafia wrote:For me I can't see how anyone could pick anyone but tips and Warburton as the flankers.

They showed they are a level above in the six nations.

The only reason Wales got away picking two 7's is because the Wales front 5 murdered the England front 5, also England had three 6's playing in the back row while Wales had an 8 and a 7 playing in their correct positions. If Wales were up against a big pack like SA or a big England pack of old Wales would struggle. I rather R Jones at 6 as in the previous three matches of the 6N that built up to the England win.

SOB, Robshaw and Brown played 7 during the 6N, why are they suddenly the first choice for 6 in the poll but not good enough for their Country.