Who will be the big names left out of the Lions Squad.

First topic message reminder :

Newspapers today reporting that Chris Robshaw could be the fourth England captain in five tours to not make the cut for the Lions.

With so many positions filled with players of equal merit it must be a selection nightmare confirming who is vital and who in-necessary.

Quite often when called up to a tour after not making the first cut a player has excelled and made a huge impact on the tests. Hope is not over for those who aren't included.

So who in your opinion would be the star players left out of tomorrows Announcement...???

Think it will be Laidlaw, rumours are of only 2 FHs going and that heavily implies Laidlaw and not Care as the 3rd 9

ChequeredJersey wrote:Think it will be Laidlaw, rumours are of only 2 FHs going and that heavily implies Laidlaw and not Care as the 3rd 9

Simply loco.

Taking a halfway house is always a bad idea.

If Sexton gets injured then Farrell starts and Laidlaw is your replacement.

Same with Youngs and Phillips.

Crazy. If they're taking 35 guys they can take 3 flyhalves and 3 scrumahalves easily. You only need 5 centres at most and 6 3/4s... if anymore and their will be a number of centres & 3/4s who are lacking game time.

Take 2 FHs and 2 SHs and all 4 players will feature in every game. Thats too much.

I agree I just think that will be what happens

ChequeredJersey wrote:I agree I just think that will be what happens

Lets just hope Gatland has more sense then the rumours.

Phillips, Youngs & Laidlaw
Sexton & Biggar with Hook as utility - Simples

Think Laidlaw as a 9 who can play 10 and an outside back who can play 10.

The second doesn't necessarily need to be a top class placekicker as Laidlaw and Halfpenny are both very good kickers.

Laidlaw is a quality 9 and a reasonable 10. However despite me being a big fan I don't think he played well enough in the 6N to go. He seems to have lost sparkle and confidence and although playing back into form was not at his best.

I would far prefer him to Phillips tho. I think we need a real SH with fast service

That's even worse, it means there is the chance of seeing Hook at 15 (not that I'd want him to play 10 or 12 or 13 either) for the Lions in which case we may as well give Ioane a hat-trick before each match starts

Care is your man then. Better service then Youngs for starters.... Youngs has a tendancy to take a step too often.

Hook was pretty shocking in the last tour if I recall... and since then he's been dropped by Wales for a number of years. Not the pedigree you would want for the lions.... Gatland seems to chose "anyone but" for Wales.

I really hope Hook and Earls are not part of the tour.

How about Matt Scott as the utility player? Top centre, played a lot at 10

Or is Gatland up to his usual mischief?

Robshaw
Farrell
Croft
Heaslip
BOD
Wilko
Cuthbert
Lydiate

at least 4 of these guys won't go and all are debatable additions...for me BOD shoudn't go if not capt and i don't think he will be

100%beefy wrote:for me BOD shoudn't go if not capt and i don't think he will be

What exactly legitimises his trip if Captain that guides against him going if not?

Coaches throw in a large number of players into the mix so its difficult to read what they're actually thinking... it will mainly be journalists punting their own favourites and Gatland will be replying in kind.

For instance, I remember in 2005 when SCW mentioned he was a big fan of Trevor Brennan!!! Didn't come close to touring though and SCW called up so many players I was by the phone by the end of the tour waiting for the call!

Then again, perhaps Trevor had SCW in a corner at the time.... if Trevor told you red was blue... it was blue!

SecretFly wrote:

100%beefy wrote:for me BOD shoudn't go if not capt and i don't think he will be

What exactly legitimises his trip if Captain that guides against him going if not?

It would be the biggest story in modern home nations rugby if BOD isn't taken.. it will be Thierry Henry all over again!!

Gatland is surely not that stupid. He will be cruxified if he did that.

Daniel Tailliferrer Hauman van der Merwe is probably Glasgow's biggest name but he wont tour coz he is canadian



I'll get my coat

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

100%beefy wrote:for me BOD shoudn't go if not capt and i don't think he will be

What exactly legitimises his trip if Captain that guides against him going if not?

It would be the biggest story in modern home nations rugby if BOD isn't taken.. it will be Thierry Henry all over again!!

Gatland is surely not that stupid. He will be cruxified if he did that.

......starting from the pov that the bookies think Warbs - a Lions virgin - is skipper, i think stupidity might just be a word we are all about to use more often. I really hope i am wrong but i have a bad feeling about the tour now. Warbs as skipper is a huge mistake press wise - poor skipper dropped, gives up captaincy and then comes on a Lions tour with no epxerience while BOD is in the squad...the Aussie press will have a field day

tigertattie wrote:Daniel Tailliferrer Hauman van der Merwe is probably Glasgow's biggest name but he wont tour coz he is canadian



I'll get my coat

Is he the biggest name in rugby?

100%beefy wrote:Robshaw
Farrell
Croft
Heaslip
BOD
Wilko
Cuthbert
Lydiate

at least 4 of these guys won't go and all are debatable additions...for me BOD shoudn't go if not capt and i don't think he will be

I think Heaslip will sneak in after his performance at the weekend, and I think Cuthbert is certain to go, but otherwise I agree with your list. My only add would be Chris Robshaw, who I think will miss out, and I have a hunch that Lydiate will make it, despite his limited game time this year (which may be viewed as a blessing).

I think Warburton will be captain, and I think both POC and BOD will be omitted. I think there are going to be some seriously unhappy Irish tomorrow.

I fear Kelly Brown might just miss out, although I hope not.

Ireland - Heaslip, Ryan, POM, Kearney
England - Only one of Wood, Robshaw, Croft will go I think, Care, Wilkinson, Ashton
Scotland - Grant, Ford, Gray, Brown, Laidlaw, Visser
Wales - Jenkins, R Jones, Biggar

funnyExiledScot wrote:

I think Warburton will be captain, and I think both POC and BOD will be omitted. I think there are going to be some seriously unhappy Irish tomorrow.

That would be absolutely astonishing...

Barritt, Roberts, Davies and Tuilagi all ahead of POC? Hmm.. BOD has played very well since the 6N, he is a still a much better centre than some people think, regardless of his leadership qualities. He wasn't even living on scraps in the 6N, apart from the first half vs Wales and 30 minutes with Madigan inside him.

To take 5 locks and not POC would be even more ludicrous.

Dai Emyr Grufydd ap Llewellyn-Thomas-Rhys Jones.

That's a big name.

Biggar, Bowe, Visser, Laidlaw, Euan Murray, Rennie, Gray, Launchberry, Care, Croft, Robshaw, Hines, Hook, Byrne, Charteris, Ian Evans, Matthew Rees

In the ST & Times, Robshaw is widely tipped to miss out, with Lydiate being prefetred by Gatland. He would be the 3rd (not 4th) England captain to miss out in 5 tours.

Personally, I think he would make an excellent midweek captain; as would Ryan Jones. Success in the early tour and midweek games will help build momentum.

We'll just have to wait for tomorrow to find out who is unlucky. Cue much angst on here.

Whoever is picked I will be behind them, as I'm going.

I think it would be madness to leave out either Wood or Brown.

Both had very good 6 Nations and cover the entire backrow at International standard.

To take either Croft or Lydiate ahead of them just smacks of favouritism, neither have played Intermational rugby this season and are less versatile.

Garland may have the final say but remember Rowntree and Farrell will be championing players, this isn't one man's decision.

As a Scot, I say take Wood first but both are more deserving than Croft or Lydiate at this point in the season.

reallybored wrote:I think it would be madness to leave out either Wood or Brown.

Both had very good 6 Nations and cover the entire backrow at International standard.

To take either Croft or Lydiate ahead of them just smacks of favouritism, neither have played Intermational rugby this season and are less versatile.

Garland may have the final say but remember Rowntree and Farrell will be championing players, this isn't one man's decision.

As a Scot, I say take Wood first but both are more deserving than Croft or Lydiate at this point in the season.

Croft played in the six nations.

nathan wrote:

reallybored wrote:I think it would be madness to leave out either Wood or Brown.

Both had very good 6 Nations and cover the entire backrow at International standard.

To take either Croft or Lydiate ahead of them just smacks of favouritism, neither have played Intermational rugby this season and are less versatile.

Garland may have the final say but remember Rowntree and Farrell will be championing players, this isn't one man's decision.

As a Scot, I say take Wood first but both are more deserving than Croft or Lydiate at this point in the season.

Croft played in the six nations.

Good point.

But you'd hardly say that 1.5 games were England's finest of the last 6 months.

reallybored..... as a fellow scot its not just about have they recenty (well almost two months ago now actually) played international (well national really in the main as it was 6Ns) its about Ability, Bone Crushing Determination, Evolution, Fit, Go too players, Horses for courses..... Potential, Respect of their peers, players and pundits, Skill, Talent in their position...... uvwxyz. In other words its so much more than "did they play well two months ago in a cold Feb/Mar in Northern Europe.

not for gatland though

he made his criteria clear.....6 nations, pedigree and performing well in non international teams who are winning.

He did nothing of the sort.... in his major interview about 4-5 weeks, he stated that form is an important part but just a part. He emphasised "Team Players" "Character" "Representing the Jersey off as well as on" "The ability to accept you havent been selected and still showing maturity and support for those selected"

flyhalffactory wrote:He did nothing of the sort.... in his major interview about 4-5 weeks, he stated that form is an important part but just a part. He emphasised "Team Players" "Character" "Representing the Jersey off as well as on" "The ability to accept you havent been selected and still showing maturity and support for those selected"

Kelly Brown pretty much nails all those attributes.

fa0019 wrote:Hook was pretty shocking in the last tour if I recall... and since then he's been dropped by Wales for a number of years. Not the pedigree you would want for the lions.... Gatland seems to chose "anyone but" for Wales.

I really hope Hook and Earls are not part of the tour.

You have a poor memory, Hook had a very good tour, he made himself the front runner for the 10 slot but was taken out by high tackles and suffered concussion. He did not play well in the 2012 RWC, he like S Jones had no game time when called upon. I believe he is the utility player that will cover 10, the games I have seen he has played very well.

Can't see any English players making the cut, when you look at what Wales,Ireland and Scotland offer in each position England can't match up a better player.

I know this will be deemed as a Wind up but i honest see Gatland taking three or less English players.
Remember Gatland picked an Osprey team for Wales at first, he ain't afraid to go with what he wants he will not take anyone just to even out numbers.

If you disagree with me don't shout me down,prove me wrong....name English players who are better in their respective position than any one of the celtic nations.

Youngs, Care, Cole

glamorganalun wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Hook was pretty shocking in the last tour if I recall... and since then he's been dropped by Wales for a number of years. Not the pedigree you would want for the lions.... Gatland seems to chose "anyone but" for Wales.

I really hope Hook and Earls are not part of the tour.

You have a poor memory, Hook had a very good tour, he made himself the front runner for the 10 slot but was taken out by high tackles and suffered concussion. He did not play well in the 2012 RWC, he like S Jones had no game time when called upon. I believe he is the utility player that will cover 10, the games I have seen he has played very well.

he had a ok game at the weekend, certainly didn't play very well - having said that if it's true Gatland wants a utility back i can see him going.

Cian Healy and Jenkins better than Cole.

Philips and Murray better than Youngs and Care

viewtothegym wrote:Cian Healy and Jenkins better than Cole.

Philips and Murray better than Youngs and Care

The latter is just utterly wrong in my opinion, especially Murray vs Youngs. Especially in Australia.

The first is idiotic. Healy and Jenkins play a different position to Cole

viewtothegym wrote:Can't see any English players making the cut, when you look at what Wales,Ireland and Scotland offer in each position England can't match up a better player.

I know this will be deemed as a Wind up but i honest see Gatland taking three or less English players.
Remember Gatland picked an Osprey team for Wales at first, he ain't afraid to go with what he wants he will not take anyone just to even out numbers.

If you disagree with me don't shout me down,prove me wrong....name English players who are better in their respective position than any one of the celtic nations.

He's already come out and said there has to be a mix from all the nations. Also it's not always a case of which player is the best, you have to take other things into consideration such as how the combinations work.

I think the following could travel and offer something;
D. Cole - Think he'll be on the bench
B. Youngs - starter for me, sexton likes to play with fast ball which will suit youngs
T. Youngs - sub, he's a lot quicker than any other hooker which would suit the hard grounds of oz
M. Tuilagi - Can be amazing when he gets front foot ball
T. Wood - Puts in a big shift every game and makes his tackles.
C. Robshaw - again, similar too T. Wood.

Could possibly be more

I shouldn't have gotten involved in this

But both have bettered him

viewtothegym wrote:Cian Healy and Jenkins better than Cole.

Philips and Murray better than Youngs and Care

I'm guessing your are just wumming now? I'm sure Healy and Jenkins are better than Cole on that side of the scrum. Certainly don't think Murrey is better than Youngs and i don't think Phillips would suit playing with Sexton.

viewtothegym wrote:But both have bettered him

Unless you are advocated them playing at TH, that isn't hugely relevant? And Cole bettered Healy (at least until the stamp and then still was his equal at least) this 6N and destroyed him utterly the year before

viewtothegym wrote:But both have bettered him

But i can point to games where say hibbard has been beaten by T. Youngs but that doesnt detract from Hibbard. There playing Australia not each other.

Hook was on the reserve list in 2009 only arriving through I think Halfpennys injury. He had an ok tour nothing more nothing less. Come 2013 Hook has had what he wanted a full year at 10 and he again has had an ok season nothing more nothing less. I would say that there are now equally versatile backs..... Matt Scott is a better 12 and is a very useful 10, Laidlaw covers 9 & 10 , Madigan, Scott Williams. I suppose Hooks ability to cover 10/12/13 and 15 at a decent standard is the only ace he has up his sleeve

reallybored wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:He did nothing of the sort.... in his major interview about 4-5 weeks, he stated that form is an important part but just a part. He emphasised "Team Players" "Character" "Representing the Jersey off as well as on" "The ability to accept you havent been selected and still showing maturity and support for those selected"

Kelly Brown pretty much nails all those attributes.

He categorically did pre 6 Nations. His 'interview' was a master class in evasion and PR. Brown may well tour still though

If you want to satisfy 'view' then the squad will be made up entirely of Welsh players. If we're still a bit short, chuck in some Ponty players. They walked the Principality league.

Job done.

K Brown, Robshaw, Wilkinson, Sheridan, Launchbury, Wood, Hartley, Care, Farrell, Ashton, McVisser, Morgan, Vunipola, Hook

None will travel. imo Kelly Browm will be the unluckiest.

I am really worried that they won't take Robshaw which I think would be a huge mistake, even if there's an argument that his club form has dipped a little.

I actually think that a lot of the more shocking ommissions will be English players - you cannot take Robshaw, Morgan, Wood and Croft for example. I would take the first two on that list. I am a Croft fan but I don't think he's quite up to fitness at the moment and whilst we need speed at the breakdown, we also need animals to counteract Hooper, Smith and Gill. Ashton surely must know that he could miss out (justifiably I think) and whilst I am also a Mike Brown fan, he just doesn't seem special enough in comparison to the competition.

There is actually a chance that O'Connell won't travel as he is clearly still affected by that injury. Mind you, we're not especially strong at lock so there's a argument for taking him.

The person I am most worried will miss out is Kelly Brown. Hugely influental and massively skilled but low-key and unfashionable - he is a prince on the blindside. It really would be a victory of style over substance if he didn't travel.

If Wilkinson isn't left behind and Jenkins is selected how will Gatland justify his selections?

He can't say that JW wasn't chosen because he would be with Toulon until the end of the cup final... as Jenkins will not be released either.

If he does do the above he has to argue or state (as I'm sure journalists will ask) that he thought Biggar/Farrell etc were better players and better suited to the series/the pressure etc... given near every pundit/current player around the world (Dan Carter, John Smit, Matt Giteau etc) has said they'd take him it seems he would be in a one man army with that argument and it could put a lot of pressure on him.

Chris Robshaw
Tom Youngs