Roy Jones Jnr

by azania Thu 02 May 2013, 7:45 pm

The most skilled and best boxer who ever lived.

Who comes close to the outrageously talented boxer to lace them up?

by **88Chris05** Thu 02 May 2013, 7:57 pm

It's a bit difficult to say "who ever lived", as it's nigh-on impossible to make a proper evaluation of a fighter's pure, natural gifts having not seen them in the flesh or on proper footage, as is the case for many fighters from before the television age.

However, with regards to Jones I'll repeat what I said on Ozzy's thread; in terms of natural, God-given ability and assets, Jones is the most freakishly talented fighter I've seen within my own lifetime and my own time spent following boxing. Insane hand speed, fit as a fiddle with top class stamina (although I can understand why some may be a little cynical over that point!), genuine knockout power in each hand and cat-like reflexes.

In pure boxing terms he left a lot to be desired, but his athletic gifts were so great that he basically trumped a series of more rounded, 'technical' boxers such as Toney, Johnson and Hill - and all of this in a sport where 'boxing' is supposed to be the name of the game.

Makes you realise just what a freak of nature he was, and how unique he was within his own era as well.

by kingraf Thu 02 May 2013, 8:22 pm

Im not gonna comment for fear of jizzin my pants
Rjj ftw

by ONETWOFOREVER Thu 02 May 2013, 8:25 pm

Who comes close???

Sugar Ray Robinson thats who. The greatest p4p fighter evr will never be eclipsed and thats official. Jones had fantastic natural ability but so did Robinson. Robinson however had the heart and chin that Roy lacked his whole career. I take middleweight Robinson to destroy super middleweight prime Jones in 3.

by RanjitPatel Thu 02 May 2013, 8:28 pm

If Bob Fitzsimmons makes it into some/most all time top 10 p4p list then why doesn't Roy?

by Lumbering_Jack Thu 02 May 2013, 8:40 pm

Insightful peice.

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 8:46 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VLWBVpL23k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhcfm-lkKEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBEmsnrQno0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZdLJAYzV9M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=porsK2f9emo

by azania Thu 02 May 2013, 9:02 pm

Personally I have not seen anyone make boxing look so easy and leave you open mouthed in astonishment. "Did he really have his hands behind his back"?

by Makaveli Thu 02 May 2013, 9:20 pm

Roy Jones would be every trainers dream he had it all, couldn't be touched, as slick as they come. I think its fair to say, as hard as anybody can try, I don't think anybody will come close to matching his talents. The guy was just naturally gifted.

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 9:30 pm

It wasn't all natural, though. Jones tested positive for anabolic steroids in 2000.

by azania Thu 02 May 2013, 9:32 pm

No he didn't.

by mobilemaster8 Thu 02 May 2013, 9:41 pm

Mayweather, Robinson and Leonard.

Roy was fantastic and did leave you open mouthed, but defeats to Tarver and brutal KO by that russian bloke kind of tarnish his status in my eyes.

He was fantastic but who did he fight?

Not on a wind up but generally interested because a few people have slated his "padded" record like JC for example...

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 9:44 pm

azania wrote:No he didn't.

He did. The American media chose to ignore the story at the time but he did.

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/mayweather-pacquiao-peds-and-boxing
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2782402
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvyHgqcReQs

If something looks too good to be true, it usually is.

by Makaveli Thu 02 May 2013, 9:52 pm

Trinidad, Hopkins, Tarver, Glen Johnson, James Toney and not to mention his the only boxer ever to go a round without getting hit, and his gone from middleweight champion to heavyweight champion. A lot more to claim for than Mayweather and Leanard, and at his best could proably give Robinson a good fight.

by **88Chris05** Thu 02 May 2013, 9:52 pm

I don't really see how or why Jones' defeat to Lebedev (I assume that's why you mean) should tarnish his status at all, to be honest. He was a complete shell, as he has been since about 2004 / 2005. Pretty insignificant, really.

Tarver deserves credit for getting Jones out of there, as the fact remains that nobody had done it before, but again Jones was had clearly hit a pretty drastic and sudden downturn by then. Fine fighters though Tarver and Johnson were, they were no better than the world title holders who Jones routinely made look silly in his pomp and I don't believe for a second that those defeats were a case of Roy being 'exposed' or simply down to him finally fighting someone with a pulse.

As for who he fought and beat, well I think all would agree that it wasn't a classic era between 160 and 175 when Jones was picking up his titles there, but at the same time it wasn't barren, either. I'll copy and past below what I said on the issue of Jones' opposition on Ozzy's thread.

Toney. Widely-considered pound for pound number two in 1994, and was undefeated on the record. In the form of his life and still good enough to pick up titles years after fighting Roy. Absolutely humiliated by Jones.

Hopkins. Number two contender, didn't lose for another twelve years afterwards and was a world champion within the next two. Beaten by Jones.

Reggie Johnson. Prior to fighting Roy, his only defeats had been in razor-tight contests against guys like Toney and Castro - he was never decisively beaten. Two-weight world champion and beat good fighters like Collins and Gonzalez and was never dominated again after fighting Jones; but Roy completely toyed with him.

Malinga: Dropped a controversial decision to Eubank, beat Benn, but completely outclassed and knocked out within six rounds by Jones.

Richard Hall: Good enough to give Michalczewski absolute hell twice over, but given an incredibly one-sided and contemptuous beating by Jones.

Griffin: Undefeated when he faced Jones, gave Michalczewski problems before being on the wrong end of a dodgy stoppage, beat Toney twice (albeit one was controversial). Thrashed in a single round by Jones in their rematch.

Gonzalez: Undefeated when Jones boxed him and subsequently went on to beat Michalczewski and Glencoffe Johnson. Again, toyed with by Jones over a twelve-round shutout.

Virgill Hill: Never stopped before facing Jones, having just gone the full twelve with the 'other' champion at 175 in Michalczewski. Still good enough to win another world title afterwards. Stopped in four rounds by Jones.

And it's not as if Tarver, Woods, Harding etc were patsies, either.

The way in which Jones made a total mockery of so many good fighters leads me to believe that he could easily compete with and, in many cases, beat any fighter who you care to call 'great' between Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight. At 160 lb, in particular, he's a nightmare for anyone who has ever laced 'em up. Everything he had at Light-Heavyweight he had down at Middleweight too, only at 160 he had even more devastating power and wasn't likely to ever be outsized. And if people insist on saying he had a poor chin, then he'd be even less vulnerable in that regard away from the bigger fellas at Light-Heavy.

by azania Thu 02 May 2013, 9:54 pm

What he took fell foul of the ibf only. It wasn't roids also.

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 9:57 pm

azania wrote:What he took fell foul of the ibf only. It wasn't roids also.

It was an unspecified anabolic steroid.

by Makaveli Thu 02 May 2013, 9:57 pm

"Roy Jones Jr. and Richard Hall both tested positive for the testosterone precursor androstenedione after Jones defeated Hall to retain his undisputed world light heavyweight championship in Indianapolis in 2000. Jones insisted his test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel."

Im not saying he is definitely telling the truth, but rather that im inclined to believe this more coming from Roy based on the fact that he had all this raw talent in the Olympics. Now I wasn't around then so wont know but what was the drugs testing like in the Olympics at that time?

by mobilemaster8 Thu 02 May 2013, 10:03 pm

Thanks Chris. Didn't really know too much about jones career apart from the Hopkins win and the losses.

I'd obviously seen his fights where he looked epic but just didn't know how the opposition were.

Going look into some of his fights now..

by manos de piedra Thu 02 May 2013, 10:04 pm

Jones tested positive alright but it was for a substance that had been banned only recently by the IBF only. I dont think he was knowingly doping, more he had just taken supplements he didnt realise contained a banned substance.

by Nico the gman Thu 02 May 2013, 10:07 pm

Roy Jones Jnr fantastic fighter,however Leonards the best I've seen in my lifetime,of the footage I've seen on Robinson, the man had the lot, but Roy Jones Jnr great great fighter but not the best IMO.

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 10:11 pm

PED use was rife in the '84 and '88 Olympics. There's a fascinating documentary out there on the '88 100m final where most of the field provide interviews after subsequently having admitted taking PEDs. Also, it reveals that positive tests were brushed under the carpet in '84 (for US athletes).

That was Jones's excuse. His promoter claimed it was as a result of a nasal spray. The whole affair was handled very shoddily.

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 10:12 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Jones tested positive alright but it was for a substance that had been banned only recently by the IBF only. I dont think he was knowingly doping, more he had just taken supplements he didnt realise contained a banned substance.

You can't know that.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 02 May 2013, 10:36 pm

hazharrison wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Jones tested positive alright but it was for a substance that had been banned only recently by the IBF only. I dont think he was knowingly doping, more he had just taken supplements he didnt realise contained a banned substance.

You can't know that.

and your saying PEDS were rife in Seoul intimating Jones was on them.........when he tested negative...........

Geez!!!

by **88Chris05** Thu 02 May 2013, 10:45 pm

hazharrison wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Jones tested positive alright but it was for a substance that had been banned only recently by the IBF only. I dont think he was knowingly doping, more he had just taken supplements he didnt realise contained a banned substance.

You can't know that.

That's probably why he said "I don't think", then!

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 10:55 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Jones tested positive alright but it was for a substance that had been banned only recently by the IBF only. I dont think he was knowingly doping, more he had just taken supplements he didnt realise contained a banned substance.

You can't know that.

That's probably why he said "I don't think", then!

He suggested Roy had taken supplements he didn't realise contained a banned substance. He can't know that.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 02 May 2013, 10:56 pm

You suggested he took PEDS in Seoul........

You can't know that!!

by smashingstormcrow Thu 02 May 2013, 10:56 pm

Makaveli wrote: the only boxer ever to go a round without getting hit

This cannot possibly be true.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 02 May 2013, 10:57 pm

I thought Tommy Hearns was...............

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 10:58 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You suggested he took PEDS in Seoul........

You can't know that!!

That isn't correct - I didn't suggest that. You live in a dream world.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 02 May 2013, 11:01 pm

Why bring in PEDS on a Jones jr thread and talk about Seoul and American athletes ....If it's not to implicate him.....

We aren't all as dumb as you...........

Anyway go and edit your post and plead ignorance like you usually do...

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 11:08 pm

Jones tested positive for anabolic steroids. I'm not implicating him -- he's a cheat.

I don't know how you of all people have the temerty to call someone else dumb -- even on here. You are one of the most limited posters I've come across on any forum. Jingoistic, ignorant and as petty as a teenager.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 02 May 2013, 11:09 pm

Anyway...........The most naturally gifted boxer in the 88 Olympics (Val Barker trophy).........With Fitz the only midd to win at heavy........Beautiful smooth clever boxer.....

Who like holy went on too long and broke the spell.............

Hoppo and Toney are wonderful wins and Ruiz at Heavy awe inspiring........

Second best boxer I've ever seen in my lifetime after Floyd...............who slightly underachieved..

With Leonard and Whittaker behind him............

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 02 May 2013, 11:10 pm

hazharrison wrote:Jones tested positive for anabolic steroids. I'm not implicating him -- he's a cheat.

I don't know how you of all people have the temerty to call someone else dumb -- even on here. You are one of the most limited posters I've come across on any forum. Jingoistic, ignorant and as petty as a teenager.

Don't edit posts though when I've been owned.............."Only good judges had Hagler winning" ........Gil Clancy Rolling Eyes

.................You sad sack!!

You never did tell me which Whittaker win was as good as Dela Hoya........Still waiting!!

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 11:12 pm

Check the comment. It hasn't been edited.

I'd be embarrassed to post that sort of tripe.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 02 May 2013, 11:13 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:Jones tested positive for anabolic steroids. I'm not implicating him -- he's a cheat.

I don't know how you of all people have the temerty to call someone else dumb -- even on here. You are one of the most limited posters I've come across on any forum. Jingoistic, ignorant and as petty as a teenager.

Don't edit posts though when I've been owned.............."Only good judges had Hagler winning" ........Gil Clancy .................You sad sack!!

You never did tell me which Whittaker win was as good as Dela Hoya........Still waiting!!

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 11:14 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
You never did tell me which Whittaker win was as good as Dela Hoya........Still waiting!!

Deluded.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 02 May 2013, 11:15 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
You never did tell me which Whittaker win was as good as Dela Hoya........Still waiting!!

Deluded.

by manos de piedra Thu 02 May 2013, 11:15 pm

hazharrison wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Jones tested positive alright but it was for a substance that had been banned only recently by the IBF only. I dont think he was knowingly doping, more he had just taken supplements he didnt realise contained a banned substance.

You can't know that.

That's probably why he said "I don't think", then!

He suggested Roy had taken supplements he didn't realise contained a banned substance. He can't know that.

I said that in my opinion Jones took supplements that contained a substance that for years was legal and not banned by boxing until the IBF decided to put it on their banned substance list. Jones I believe continued to take it without realising it had then been banned by the IBF. He was clean as per WBC/WBO rules.

The testing in boxing was so bad back then that if a boxer was genuinely juicing knowingly (Mosley) then they wouldnt be caught.

I never proclaimed to know it. Just my opinion.

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 11:23 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Jones tested positive alright but it was for a substance that had been banned only recently by the IBF only. I dont think he was knowingly doping, more he had just taken supplements he didnt realise contained a banned substance.

You can't know that.

That's probably why he said "I don't think", then!

He suggested Roy had taken supplements he didn't realise contained a banned substance. He can't know that.

I said that in my opinion Jones took supplements that contained a substance that for years was legal and not banned by boxing until the IBF decided to put it on their banned substance list. Jones I believe continued to take it without realising it had then been banned by the IBF. He was clean as per WBC/WBO rules.

The testing in boxing was so bad back then that if a boxer was genuinely juicing knowingly (Mosley) then they wouldnt be caught.

I never proclaimed to know it. Just my opinion.

The substance was never specified. He was 6 times over the limit, though.

Jones's attorney released a statement weeks later claiming it was an over the counter weight loss supplement. His promoter contradicted that with another excuse.

Boxinginsider.com: Did Roy Jones test positive after his fight against Richard Hall?

Jacob Hall: “Both of them did. Roy Jones tested positive for steroids. He was five or six times over an acceptable level. Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level. He didn’t mention that in his interview (the now infamous interview of July 18 with Bragging Rights Corner and Doghouse Boxing).

A letter was sent to both (Jones and Hall). The Indiana Boxing Commission followed up – I talked to Jones’ people and said we were going to declare the fight a no-contest, suspend and fine him. And at that time, Jones’ attorney Fred Levin and the Indiana Attorney General’s office got involved.

Indiana has no law on drug testing as probably the majority of the states in the U.S. do not. The drug testing company sent us the results. Most states that don’t have drug testing laws, the test results go back to the sanctioning bodies. I think most people are surprised at that. What do the sanctioning bodies do when they get positive test results? Suspend? Fine? They didn’t in this case. And there’s no way you’re going to know about it.

Through his attorney, Jones admitted he had been taking an over-the-counter product called Ripped Fuel. That’s not illegal but it is an anabolic steroid according to the IBF and other other sanctioning bodies.

Boxinginsider.com: So he did test positive. He did take Ripped Fuel.

Whether that’s what he took or not we don’t know, but he did test positive and admitted to taking a steroid.

The IBF chose to do nothing. They wanted a second test to be done. But why take a second test when he failed the first one and admitted to taking a steroid? That’s where it ended.

No action was taken. Nobody did anything.

We couldn’t take action (because there is no drug testing law in the state of Indiana) but what we agreed to was before his next two fights, Roy Jones would submit the results to more drug tests to Indiana. One fight was in Louisiana and those results were negative. And the other was in California, and those results were negative.

What surprised me about this is that the IBF chose not to do anything. And I have documents…what I’m saying, I can back-up. So I’m not concerned with that.

Roy Jones’ people were very cooperative and very easy to work with to reach a settlement. Also, I did tell Roy Jones that there are some amateur boxing clubs here in Indiana and he did send a check in the amount of $250 for the Indianapolis PAL.”

Boxinginsider.com: Wow, that’s hard to believe – that only one media outlet from France has called you about this.

Jacob Hall: “All I saw on any of the websites was that Murad Muhammad said Roy Jones tested positive for take some (nasal decongestant). But that was innaccurate. This was not a nasal decongestant.”

Boxinginsider.com: Does the state of Nevada have a law on drug testing?

Jacob Hall: “Yes. Most states do not. Nevada does have drug testing. I think most people are surprised at that…they think all boxers are tested. For some time I’ve tried to get a law passed similar to Nevada but we haven’t got that done yet. If the sanctioning bodies choose not to take action, there isn’t a lot the state commissions can do. That’s why I’m in favor of a Federal Commission like the one Senator John McCain is proposing.”

by manos de piedra Thu 02 May 2013, 11:26 pm

He tested positive for Androstenedione

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 11:27 pm

manos de piedra wrote:He tested positive for Androstenedione

No he didn't. Unspecified anabolic steroid.

by manos de piedra Thu 02 May 2013, 11:30 pm

It was androstenedione. The IBF just didnt release that at the time.

by hazharrison Thu 02 May 2013, 11:40 pm

Sure about that?

by manos de piedra Thu 02 May 2013, 11:48 pm

Well I wont say to a certainty as I have never physically witnessed the test results but I have read it reported many times since by sources I would take as credible, and it was a substance that had only recently been added to the IBFs banned substance list so from what I have read on the whole case it appears to me to be one of mistake rather than wilfull doping on Jones part. Guilty by strict liability but I dont believe he intended to cheat the system. If he had I doubt he would have been caught.

by Strongback Fri 03 May 2013, 12:57 am

Hearing about which American wasn't roiding would be more of a revelation.

by rapidringsroad Fri 03 May 2013, 4:49 am

While Roy Jones was a very good boxer he doesn't come anywhere near being as good as SRR. To me Jones' fights were quite often boring and lacked excitement.I'm not saying that Robinson didn't have the odd stinker I'm sure he did but he didn't deteriate as drasticly as Jones and with 200 fights he fought the best at their peaks. Must rate as best ever for me.

by hazharrison Fri 03 May 2013, 7:08 am

manos de piedra wrote:Well I wont say to a certainty as I have never physically witnessed the test results but I have read it reported many times since by sources I would take as credible, and it was a substance that had only recently been added to the IBFs banned substance list so from what I have read on the whole case it appears to me to be one of mistake rather than wilfull doping on Jones part. Guilty by strict liability but I dont believe he intended to cheat the system. If he had I doubt he would have been caught.

If he was 6 times over the limit for Richard Hall, then you have to suspect that could have been the case for other fights. How does a man put on around 40 pounds in weight and still appear shredded (while losing nothing in terms of speed and power)?

by Strongback Fri 03 May 2013, 8:06 am

hazharrison wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Well I wont say to a certainty as I have never physically witnessed the test results but I have read it reported many times since by sources I would take as credible, and it was a substance that had only recently been added to the IBFs banned substance list so from what I have read on the whole case it appears to me to be one of mistake rather than wilfull doping on Jones part. Guilty by strict liability but I dont believe he intended to cheat the system. If he had I doubt he would have been caught.

If he was 6 times over the limit for Richard Hall, then you have to suspect that could have been the case for other fights. How does a man put on around 40 pounds in weight and still appear shredded (while losing nothing in terms of speed and power)?

That's physically impossible. 10lbs of muscle gain a year is freakish development for a natural bodybuilder. Most natural bodybuilders only end up 25lbs above their natural weight after a decade of training if they are lucky. I'm talking muscle tissue not bulk weight. How many fighters start to look soft after they jump 2 or 3 weight divisions, all the natural athletes that's who. It's pretty obvious who's juicing if you step back and look at the before and after pictures.

by hazharrison Fri 03 May 2013, 9:07 am

The androstenedione line appears to have come from the Jones team, rather than the IBF or the Indiana Commission.

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