A question for all you Kiwis

There have been a few editorial wet dreams in the Scotish press recently about Vern Cotter becoming head coach. I know that he has had a really successful stint at Clermont, but what do you Kiws think of him as a coach, a person, a motivator etc? Should we read too much into the fact that he is (having to?) work in Europe rather than NZ.
Have all the stories about Todd Slackbladder becoming head coach died away down under too?

I don't know much about Cotter as a coach though I remember him being overall alright. I don't think its a problem working overseas as a coach, NZ just doesn't have enough teams and $$$$.
Blackadders got a way to go before being ABs coach - he said something like that himself the other day. Got to win some stuff first.

Blackadder did say he wants to coach intenationally- just not at the moment. Don't know a lot about Cotter myself...is he an Otagoian?

He's a former BOP coach and Assistant Crusaders coach and he's been pretty successful at Clermont (I think they had 7 coaches in 7 years prior to him). He has a proven pedigree so he should be ok.

He's not a name that springs to mind in NZ but his name is known. Sadly it seems Scotland is incapable of snaring a big name but out of the options available for NZ castaways certainly Scotland could've done much worse! It'll be interesting to see how he fares. If you're foreign then the expectations will be higher because you've discounted a home grown option. Just look at the live for Robbie Deans!

Who is the most likely of the top Kiwi coaches in Europe to become NZ coach in the future.:

Cotter, Gatland or Schmidt.

Gatland obviously has by far the most experience and success even some in NZ with the Chiefs but does that guarentee him the position.

As I said on another post, whatever the implications for New Zealand in the mid-distant future (each coach will have one eye on the prospct of New Zealand post the WC), that combo of Cotter, Gatland and Schmidt certainly have the potential to light up the general competitveness in the 6N anyway.

Cotter will like the idea of being back in Schmidt's territory, but this time as competitive opponents rather than with the same team. And Gatland will know that with those two newbies involved, he's certainly not going to be able to so easily read what will be coming from Scotland or Ireland.

GunsGerms wrote:Who is the most likely of the top Kiwi coaches in Europe to become NZ coach in the future.:

Cotter, Gatland or Schmidt.

Gatland obviously has by far the most experience and success even some in NZ with the Chiefs but does that guarentee him the position.

yes, Gatland is the most likely coach, currently coaching in Europe.
No, it doesnt guarantee him the position,

You have to remember that New Zealand wont be entertaining this idea for quite some time.(hopefully), but Who would be the best New Zealander for the job of coaching scotland? I would have thought Lineen or Blackadder...I cant see how cotters experience and success in France brings anything more two the table than the other two.

Will since Blackadders not interested then he doesn't bring anything to the table at all.

One problem for me for AB coach is that Gatland hasn't won much in NZ. One ITM cup title in 2006 and then couldn't follow that up. He has little Super rugby experience and most of this coaching has been in Europe. The European experience is good but his lack of NZ experience is bad.

We've a few out there for sure.Renie and JK will be in the equation in 4-5 years. JK's done the overseas thing and has played in two and coached in 3? world cups. Not with a premier side for sure but it cant be negated as experience. I think he's done it in the right order. Do the OE then the sxv so when he finally steps up hes local.

blackcanelion wrote:He's a former BOP coach and Assistant Crusaders coach and he's been pretty successful at Clermont (I think they had 7 coaches in 7 years prior to him). He has a proven pedigree so he should be ok.

He has definitely steadied the ship but he certainly hasn't got a proper return on their investments.

They have a star studded team and since he has taken over in 2006 they have won the French league once. They also won the Amlin Cup (second tier European trophy).

Now there is no doubt they are still a fantastic side but when push comes to shove ultimately they seem to bottle it. Thats a very poor return in the last 7 years.

In the same time period:

Munster: 2 Heineken Cups, 2 Celtic Leagues

Toulouse: 1 Heineken Cup, 3 French Leagues

Leinster: 3 Heineken Cups, 1 Celtic League

Harlequins: 1 English League, 1 Amlin Cup

Biarritz: 1 French League, 1 Amlin Cup

There are lots of other teams with successes in either league or Europe like Saracens, Tigers, Northampton, Toulon etc.

In short you have to wonder about their ability to win the big games. In fact (I may be wrong) but the Heineken Cup Final this year was the first time in 3 years that Clermont have made a final.

They seem to consistently fall short and surely the last thing NZRU will want is a coach who will bring back the tag of RWC chokers.

That might sound harsh but when your going for the top job of the best team, these questions have to be asked.

I don't know enough about the viable options in NZ itself but in Europe you would imagine that Joe Schmidts record at Leinster (3 Heineken Cups, 1 Amlin Cup and has the chance of adding a Celtic League title this weekend) or Warren Gatlands record (2 Six Nations, 1 NPC Title, 1 Heineken Cup, 1 Amlin Cup, 3 English Leagues).

If Schmidt can win a 6 Nations with Ireland OR beat the All Blacks with them he will be in a good place when its time to choose a new coach.

Similarly if Gatland gets a Lions series win it will nearly make his CV complete apart from having never coached Super Rugby.

All that Cotter currently has to show for his 7 years in Clermont is 1 French league (no better than Perpignan) and one Amlin Cup. Not good enough when you can call upon John Smit, Mario Ledesma, Sione Lauaki, Napoleon Nalaga, Lee Byrne, Regan King, Benson Stanley, Breyton Paulse, Nathan Hines, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Julien Malzieu, Morgan Parra, Wesley Fofana, Julien Bonnaire etc etc etc.

Cotter legacy to clermont will probably not be a lot of trophies but the progress of their academy where around 50% of the current squad spent some time (including some of the foreigners). This is his main achievment so far and a good job they did considering where they were before. It would be nice if he could wait a bit to get the french manager job after the next RWC.

Just finding Gael Fickou and Wesley Fofana is probably good enough to credential him for the Scotland job.

yes Fofana was somehow a bit of a lazy git that didnt really want to tackle when he joined Clermont. Fickou on the other hand went from Toulon to Toulouse...