Who to open the batting with Cook in the first ashes test?

First topic message reminder :

With Nick Compton failing with the bat in both test matches V NZ and with him only averaging around the 30 mark overall in test match cricket since his test debut V India last winter, what should England's selectors now do for the first ashes test match?

1) Stick with Compton but on a match by match basis (similar to what the selectors did with Botham's captaincy in 1981)
2) Move Trott up to open the batting
3) Move Bell up to open the batting
4) Move Root up to open the batting
5) Bring in someone like a Michael Carberry
6) Bring back Michael Vaughan out of retirement!

Mat wrote:Moeen Ali the first man to 900 first class runs this season and can bowl a tidy bit of spin. Maybe he should bat number 6!

In all seriousness, the selectors must be very confident in the abilities of Root AND Bairstow to go for what is quite a bold move. Hopefully Root proves himself a capable international opener, because he was certainly proving to be an excellent middle order option.

Agreed it is a very bold move by the selectors, as I am far from convinced about Bairstow at 6, but at least we know in Prior at 7 we have a quality wicket keeper batsman

JDizzle wrote:That's true, it has been a lot better recently. I personally think Taylor would be a better option than Bell at the top of the order but with KP coming back we will not find out. He struggles as he is really competing with Trott for a place and with the runs he is scoring atm, Taylor has no chance! Woakes being mentioned earlier on in the thread as being picked in the ODI side when a better 4 day player when Taylor is the other way round was the one that set me off!

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Taylor's picked for the Australia ODIs- as you've got to imagine that after playing the NZ Test series, the NZ ODI series, the Championship Trophy and the Ashes at least one of Cook, Bell and Trott will be rested for the Aus ODIs.

I'd imagine Bell will make way for KP anyway. Dropped dressed up as rotation.

Im happy to see Root going up to open, he is the future, compton isnt.

Root has been selected as an opener.....on the basis of his good show in the middle order against NZ.
 
Firstly it is middle order......secondly it is NZ.
 
and by no means it means that he will succeed against Australia as an opener.....where a completely diffrent set of dynamics of feet movement, hand-eye coordination and temperment is required.
 
So is this a gamble ??
 
A huge one.....a possibly triple negative......
--higher chance of losing a wicket early as the opener is tooo adventrous and strokeful
--Losing the more assured runs from Root coming from middle order...
--surrendering early advantage to Australia....if the above two were to be true.
 
It is too big a gamble in the opening tests of a vital series.
 
a more balanced and assured approach would have been to keep Compton as the opener for the first two tests......gain some ascendancy in the series and then throw Root in as an opener if Compton still didn't work.
 
I just believe that england has made a bad move here.

He's a natural opener though, it's his best position.

As Root opened in county cricket for Yorks in testing circumstances at headingley for some time, he might be able to adapt quickly. But yes, he did look natural in the middle order, and more importantly, provided the middle order a sense of solidity and solved England's long term problem with the number6 position. It remains to be seen whether Bairstow will be able to job. And also interesting to see how long it takes for Root to get used to opening at international level. Seems like England have made up their mind about Root opening in place of Compton, but if he failes to deliver at the top in the warm-up match, and if Compton goes on to score some big runs in the tour match, things might change again.

Can anyone advise what will selectors do if Root fails as an opener in let's say first two tests ??

--will they carry on with him as an opener?

--will they remove him as an opener.....and if removed, who will come back to open ? Compton ?

--will they move Root back to middle order?.....what if Bairstow had gotten two 50s in two tests.......will they drop Root completely from the XI

Or will they drop Biarstow who has scored two fifties


The Americans coined a phrase that sounds very apt in this situation:

if it ain't broke don't fix it'

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/engine/match/566928.html

Somerset batting against an Australian XI right now. Compton unbeaten on 15 so far. A ton would really make the selectors think...

How close to the preferred test XI do you think the Aussies line-up vs Somerset is?

Hoggy_Bear wrote:How close to the preferred test XI do you think the Aussies line-up vs Somerset is?

Doubt they will play Khawaja and Hughes. Can't see five bowlers plus Watson either.

Yeah. I suppose Warner or Rogers will come in (possibly both)

Compton got 81 today.

Also the England selectors have got him a game for Worcestershire against the Aussies next week.

Obviously not as out of the plans as we first thought

And Somerset had a collapse and a half.

Went from 304-2 to 320 all out!!!

If he had failed he wouldn't have been in the Worcestershire game

I'm not sure that either of you are correct about Compton and Worcester...

My understanding is that Worcestershire made an approach about getting a ringer or two in and were given Compton. It is highly unlikely that he will displace Bairstow at this stage but England were happy to give him FC cricket as he would likely play if one of the top three were injured. I think he'd have been playing in that game whether he made 0, 81 or 300 today. The move makes sense for all parties: adds something extra to the fixture for Worcs, provides a stiffer challenge for Oz, gives him practice if one of the top 3 breaks a finger before the 1st Test and shows Compton himself that his dream isn't quite dead.

Bairstow's position might not be entirely secure but I can't see Root being shuffled down again (although I believe he is best used at 5 or 6). That might provide an opportunity for the in form Bopara, though probably not until a couple of Tests have passed.

Ah I thought the ECB put him in ala Strauss with Somerset a few years back

Compton shouldn't play in the ashes end off. Not up to the standard yet.

KP in for him, were sorted.

He just scored 81 against the test standard attack England are about to play.

And back to back centuries over the winter.

You may want to consider your standards.

Shelsey93 wrote:I'm not sure that either of you are correct about Compton and Worcester...

My understanding is that Worcestershire made an approach about getting a ringer or two in and were given Compton. It is highly unlikely that he will displace Bairstow at this stage but England were happy to give him FC cricket as he would likely play if one of the top three were injured. I think he'd have been playing in that game whether he made 0, 81 or 300 today. The move makes sense for all parties: adds something extra to the fixture for Worcs, provides a stiffer challenge for Oz, gives him practice if one of the top 3 breaks a finger before the 1st Test and shows Compton himself that his dream isn't quite dead.

Bairstow's position might not be entirely secure but I can't see Root being shuffled down again (although I believe he is best used at 5 or 6). That might provide an opportunity for the in form Bopara, though probably not until a couple of Tests have passed.

I'd be a bit disappointed if that's true. Great chance for some of our younger lads who have been playing well lately like Pardoe, Fell, Leach to get perhaps a once in a lifetime chance to play against an Australian side. But with Compton to come in, it's likely one of those will drop out. Not sure what Worcestershire get out of it all, Compton is hardly going to sell tickets, which is pretty irrelevant anyway as I'm fairly certain the tickets are nearly sold out.

If Compton continues to get runs in the tour game next week as well, if he scores a ton+, it will be difficult to drop him I suppose. Root has been an impressive young lad and I believe he shouldn't have too many problems opening the innings, but him in the middle order gives England's lineup a greater sense of solidity and security about it. So I hope Compton gets a big one against the Australians and make himself undroppable.

I think the decision's already made, unfortunately.

NickisBHAFC wrote:Compton shouldn't play in the ashes end off. Not up to the standard yet.

KP in for him, were sorted.

You say "yet" but I think it is now or never for Compton, as I feel that if he does improve in the next couple of years he will be deemed a bit too old to be brought back into the side. If he gets better he will probably be the next Carberry i.e. one of the outstanding openers at county level but a bit too old to be bringing into the England team.

Mat wrote:

Shelsey93 wrote:I'm not sure that either of you are correct about Compton and Worcester...

My understanding is that Worcestershire made an approach about getting a ringer or two in and were given Compton. It is highly unlikely that he will displace Bairstow at this stage but England were happy to give him FC cricket as he would likely play if one of the top three were injured. I think he'd have been playing in that game whether he made 0, 81 or 300 today. The move makes sense for all parties: adds something extra to the fixture for Worcs, provides a stiffer challenge for Oz, gives him practice if one of the top 3 breaks a finger before the 1st Test and shows Compton himself that his dream isn't quite dead.

Bairstow's position might not be entirely secure but I can't see Root being shuffled down again (although I believe he is best used at 5 or 6). That might provide an opportunity for the in form Bopara, though probably not until a couple of Tests have passed.

I'd be a bit disappointed if that's true. Great chance for some of our younger lads who have been playing well lately like Pardoe, Fell, Leach to get perhaps a once in a lifetime chance to play against an Australian side. But with Compton to come in, it's likely one of those will drop out. Not sure what Worcestershire get out of it all, Compton is hardly going to sell tickets, which is pretty irrelevant anyway as I'm fairly certain the tickets are nearly sold out.

Now now Matthew, it's all about coming together to beat the Australians.

Shelsey93 wrote:I'm not sure that either of you are correct about Compton and Worcester...

My understanding is that Worcestershire made an approach about getting a ringer or two in and were given Compton. It is highly unlikely that he will displace Bairstow at this stage but England were happy to give him FC cricket as he would likely play if one of the top three were injured. I think he'd have been playing in that game whether he made 0, 81 or 300 today. The move makes sense for all parties: adds something extra to the fixture for Worcs, provides a stiffer challenge for Oz, gives him practice if one of the top 3 breaks a finger before the 1st Test and shows Compton himself that his dream isn't quite dead.

Bairstow's position might not be entirely secure but I can't see Root being shuffled down again (although I believe he is best used at 5 or 6). That might provide an opportunity for the in form Bopara, though probably not until a couple of Tests have passed.

Wouldn't have thought Somerset would agree if the ECB didn't request it, seeing as how he will miss games for Somerset in that time.

Correct Hodge - it was an ECB request.

this is a no brainer isnt it.


J Root

I see from Twitter we've now got Boyd Rankin playing for Worcs against the Aussies as well now. A bear in our shirt, god I feel sick already. Guess it's all for the greater good, apparently.

I don't think it's in stone that Compton won't start the first Ashes test.

By "dropping" Compton, it gives Compton two matches to prove his form, and also allows the selectors to have a look at Root at the top of the order. They can still revert to Root in the middle for the tests. If Compton then doesn't get runs in the first couple of tests, they'll have more of an idea about whether Root should open.

 

robbo277 wrote:I don't think it's in stone that Compton won't start the first Ashes test.

By "dropping" Compton, it gives Compton two matches to prove his form, and also allows the selectors to have a look at Root at the top of the order. They can still revert to Root in the middle for the tests. If Compton then doesn't get runs in the first couple of tests, they'll have more of an idea about whether Root should open.

that is the most accruate summation of the situation as it stands now

Aye, it does give the selectors the best of both worlds really. Compton gets 2 games vs the Aussies to prove his form, and Root gets a chance to open for England.

I just don't understand why people want Compton to start ahead of Root or KP. Ahead of Bairstow maybe. 

I do really hope Compton can find his form again and make a return to the England side, after the ashes.

I thought it was obvious to everyone that Bairstow was the one to be dropped and Root would stick to his position in the middle order.

Roots score today seemed par enough with a good SR..

Kp looks in amazing form on his return as well
.

GSC wrote:I thought it was obvious to everyone that Bairstow was the one to be dropped and Root would stick to his position in the middle order.

you think its obvious that compton should retain his place!!!!

Its a big discussion dude.

No, obvious that if he played, Bairstow was the one to be dropped.

KP looks in great touch, which is great news!

He means if Compton is coming back in mysti bairstow would be dropped not KP/Root as Nick says

I see . Soz GSC

NickisBHAFC wrote:I just don't understand why people want Compton to start ahead of Root or KP. Ahead of Bairstow maybe. 

I do really hope Compton can find his form again and make a return to the England side, after the ashes.

What has KP got to do with this!? If he's fit, he plays, as England's best batsman!. No discussion on his place whatsoever. Actually it isn't even about Root as such. The decision England need to make is, who between Compton and Bairstow. If they go for the latter, Root has to move up to open as a consequence.

msp83 wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:I just don't understand why people want Compton to start ahead of Root or KP. Ahead of Bairstow maybe. 

I do really hope Compton can find his form again and make a return to the England side, after the ashes.

What has KP got to do with this!? If he's fit, he plays, as England's best batsman!. No discussion on his place whatsoever. Actually it isn't even about Root as such. The decision England need to make is, who between Compton and Bairstow. If they go for the latter, Root has to move up to open as a consequence.

Surely Cook is England's best batsman?

I'd argue Trott...

KP is the best, then Trott.

there is KP
then there is daylight

then there are Prior, Trott, Cook etal

Cook>>>KP>Trott

I'd probably say Cook, then KP, then Trott, then the rest.

KP, Cook, Trott.

Cook = KP > Trott .

Root will make 4th his own very soon. And shortly after will be contending the top 3.

No pressure on the lad then.

I'd say hes quite far off Prior atm.

He isnt reading

Matty Prior is quality, I'd have Root level/just behind Bell at the moment he's had a good start to his career but Ravi Bopara looked the next big thing in Tests once. Got a long way to go yet