Lions 1st Test

First topic message reminder :

OK just a bit of fun but we have now seen everyone (bar the injured) either start or play so out of those we have seen who, if you had would you pick for the test XV

Vunipolo
Hibbard
Jones
AWJ
POC
SOB
Heaslip
Tipuric

Phillips
Sexton

Cuthbert
Roberts
BOD
Bowe

Halfpenny

That would be mine but after all its just fun

Heaslip was immense & I would say his performance was the the best of the Lions in the 2 games albeit against weakened opposition.

flyhalffactory wrote:Maesteg

Was Halfpennys' game as Wales606 stated defensively perfect?

I would have no problem in 1/2p playing and Kearney bench with Hogg not even in the test 23 as long as that was the best option for the Lions against the Aussie test side. Its just that I think Hogg is a better overall option especially if Sexton gets his kicking boots back on.

I would have Hogg on the bench for the tests but halfpenny is just invaluable.

His defense was great his attacking too. Came into the line with pace. Plus 11/11 is a very good kicking stat.

His defence was pretty much spot on, as has been said he missed one high bounce but then tracked back and nailed the winger.

He dropped 0 balls, missed 0 kicks, admittedly didn't attack a lot but then for periods of the game there was no need or he wasn't called upon.

I think he is 'currently' in pole position and not just for his kicking but for his all round game, if however Hogg or even Kearney up the stakes and either Sexton or Farrell prove as successful with their kicking then I would have no problem with Gatland leaving him out if he thinks there are better players.

halfpenny and mike Philips are the best players the lions got in their positions .some Scottish posters want hogg and murry . so every little mistake the Welsh boys do gets put under the microscope . Philips scores two tries gets man of the match halfpenny kicks everything but that's not good enough .

Though, in fairness, even Phillips admitted there were plenty of other players who had played better than him.

He is a totally different type of player to Youngs as well. He is more like an extra forward with his power and strength whereas Youngs is much faster, has a better pass and will be far less involved in the rucks and mauls. Horses for courses.

flyhalffactory wrote:

littlejohn wrote:My view on what positions are fairly nailed in for the first test:

1. * Wide open with jenkins favorite
2. * open
3. Jones
4. * open
5. POC
6. open
7 warburton (he could go at 6, esp if austrlia start with hooper and gill)
8. heaslip
9 phillips
10 sexton
11 open
12 open
13 bod
14 open
15 halfpenny

lots to play for and of course people will step it up to challenge in pretty much every position apart from 3 and 10.

That's probably as sensible a post as I have seen today. Don't agree on 15 but apart from that I am with you 100%

who's your 15 flyhalf?

littlejohn wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

littlejohn wrote:My view on what positions are fairly nailed in for the first test:

1. * Wide open with jenkins favorite
2. * open
3. Jones
4. * open
5. POC
6. open
7 warburton (he could go at 6, esp if austrlia start with hooper and gill)
8. heaslip
9 phillips
10 sexton
11 open
12 open
13 bod
14 open
15 halfpenny

lots to play for and of course people will step it up to challenge in pretty much every position apart from 3 and 10.

That's probably as sensible a post as I have seen today. Don't agree on 15 but apart from that I am with you 100%

who's your 15 flyhalf?

sorry i've just caught up with the post and see u have hogg down. Nice choice!

thebluesmancometh wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Blues,

Why North, didn't think he done anything really out of the ordinary today and Bowe looked more dangerous and given Sexton kicking on Saturday compared to Halfpennys today lets hope any tries are under the posts.

I think Bowe did well but watch his runs/good work again, they were all set plays that put him in space, or he was put into space, after the first 30 he went AWOL, and rarely came in to look for work. North started slow due to the set plays going Bowes side initially, but he worked hard, broke the line and just as importantl created for other people, not to mention came in and carried in the tight a number of times.

Norths performance today was far better than Bowes IMO

I thought they were both very effective but would disagree with set plays. The break that led to the 1st penalty was from a ruck, not set piece ball and Bowe dummies his way through and crucially offloads while taking out a tackler. Similarly in the build up to Heaslips try he pops up on the opposite wing, beats a man and offloads to croft who goes within a yard of the line. Then he takes his try really well. I'm not going to criticise north who I think was very effective. They both are currently on my test team. Cuthberts defence is my issue. Early days though.

flyhalffactory wrote:

littlejohn wrote:My view on what positions are fairly nailed in for the first test:

1. * Wide open with jenkins favorite
2. * open
3. Jones
4. * open
5. POC
6. open
7 warburton (he could go at 6, esp if austrlia start with hooper and gill)
8. heaslip
9 phillips
10 sexton
11 open
12 open
13 bod
14 open
15 halfpenny

lots to play for and of course people will step it up to challenge in pretty much every position apart from 3 and 10.

That's probably as sensible a post as I have seen today. Don't agree on 15 but apart from that I am with you 100%

I agree, though I would say despite Heaslip having a blinder on Wednesday that the options at eight aren't so clear cut.

You cannot omit Half from the tes tside. His kicking alone justifies selection. Hogg is not ready and in my view is a good 10/15 bench option. My test wings are Bowe and Cuthbert at the moment with North on the bench

100%beefy wrote:You cannot omit Half from the tes tside. His kicking alone justifies selection. Hogg is not ready and in my view is a good 10/15 bench option. My test wings are Bowe and Cuthbert at the moment with North on the bench

Hogg is a very good bench option, covers centre, Full back and Flyhalf and his goal kicking is good.

Also as we know he is a great outfield runner and he could be used as an impact player to change the impetus.

maestegmafia wrote:

100%beefy wrote:You cannot omit Half from the tes tside. His kicking alone justifies selection. Hogg is not ready and in my view is a good 10/15 bench option. My test wings are Bowe and Cuthbert at the moment with North on the bench

Hogg is a very good bench option, covers centre, Full back and Flyhalf and his goal kicking is good.

Also as we know he is a great outfield runner and he could be used as an impact player to change the impetus.

Sextons kicking alone justifies selection

According to Mr Gatland who made a point of stating
1. It was such a close call between Sexton and 1/2p (kicking duties) that he left it to Neil Jenkins to decide.
2. Hogg has been knocking them over with ease in practice and has been working closely with the "world class kicking coach" Jenkins.
3. He stated four players are viewed to be kickers and the coaching team are confident of all four (Farrell/Half/Hogg/Sexton).
Read between that what you like.

You state that Hogg is not ready (I am assuming you mean for Test Match rugby) but then immediately state he is a good bench option (I am assuming you mean for Test Match rugby)

We will not win a test match down under based on selection criteria of any player in the test 23 being selected just for one part of his game (i.e. kicking). We will not win a test match with a mind set of containing Australia and not selecting players who have the potential mind-set that they can score from any potential opportunity.

Halfpenny is a great bench option as he can play a steady defensive FB role, can kick the ball immaculately, can cover both FB/Wing roles.
Hogg is a great bench option as he can play a steady attacking FB role, is possibly the fastest player in the squad who can score tries from anywhere, has a very accurate kicking game, can cover FB/Wing/Centre/FH roles.

ps the same applies to Kearney which will put the cat among the pigeon if he puts in a virtuoso performance on his 2013 Lions debut.

Both players are ready for test match rugby whether starting or warming the bench. From the first two performances taking into account the differing conditions..... world class opponents and a bar of soap v a club side and decent humidity then you have to say Halfpenny gets the nod based on his overall performance.

At this point I am looking purely looking forward to the next game (the first real test of the tour), and what the Australia press think of Davies at 12, the Davies/Tuilagi combo and Hogg after the game.

Look fhf, your boy is not going to make the test your constant banging the drum is getting embarassing.

He is not ready for a Lions test, Half is and suggesting that Sexton woul d get picked at 10 just for his kicking indicates the fly half factory was probably not very successful; no 10 ever got picked just for his kicking and Sexton is not the issue. But hey, that's my opinion.

it's not because he is scots but because gatland knows half's worth and we all know he values that knowledge in his players.

if half was scots i would back him all the way, yet you dismiss the guy who just slotted 9/9. Kickers win Lions series and I want Half there to do that, Gats will too.

i love Hogg, hope he comes on and dazzles, but Half could be the difference between success and failure just as Jenks was in 97

I would have concerns about Hogg being a front line kicker at this level, It's unlikely that he will be but he has missed some relatively simple pots at goal for his club in pressure situations and is untried at this level. Given that kicking for goal is likely to decide the test matches 1/2p has to start for me

RubyGuby wrote:I would have concerns about Hogg being a front line kicker at this level, It's unlikely that he will be but he has missed some relatively simple pots at goal for his club in pressure situations and is untried at this level. Given that kicking for goal is likely to decide the test matches 1/2p has to start for me

oh come on ruby the debate is not half or hogg as kickers!

Neil Jenkins was picked just for his kicking as he was a very average player but he more or less won the series with his kicking. If Sexton was guaranteed to kick like 1/2p I would start with Hogg but as it stands we cannot leave such a points machine on the side - its a fine call as I think Hogg would be a great weapon from FB.

there must be a reason for halfpennys lack of attack when he played on wing he wasn't a bad player . dont know how many tries he scored but it must be Wales game plan not to get involved but lets be honest they got north and cuthbert too run the angles like bryne use to do . would gats ask hogg to stay back more

Halfpenny will emerge as the Lions player of the series. Criticism of this lad is childish and stupid. Still it is the usual ones criticising so nothing to lose sleep over.