Due to any lack of depth in the Celtic Unions...

Once again the English are being plundered for Billy Twelvetrees.

Will this parasitic Lions shambles ever stop?

Still, looking on the bright side, it's now the 36-Manu centre axis that's now nailed-on.

I think its more a case of more players already in the squad from Ireland and wales and English players only getting the nod as a last resort. No?

And the poor Scots, like the kid at school who was always picked last.

Greytiger - and your point is what exactly?
Many want an all England team ..........!

Well he has to go to the only well which isn't already dry I suppose, GG.

Bloody Lions nonsense...

England alone wouldn't be so screwed as bloody Gatland is right now.

Portnoys posts are becoming increasingly similar to the posts of certain wums.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Portnoys posts are becoming increasingly similar to the posts of certain wums.

That'd require a little elaboration, Dodger.

If Gatland continues (Zebo apart) to trawl the Jeff for replacements, the I can only assume that all the fish in the other seas are gone.

If Gatland loses this series, his name and reputation will make SCW look like a saint.

Pollack Pilllock.

greytiger wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Portnoys posts are becoming increasingly similar to the posts of certain wums.

That'd require a little elaboration, Dodger.

If Gatland continues (Zebo apart) to trawl the Jeff for replacements, the I can only assume that all the fish in the other seas are gone.

If Gatland loses this series, his name and reputation will make SCW look like a saint.

Pollack Pilllock.

Unless I've missed something there have been 5 replacements since the squad was announced and two of those are English or even play in England.  How does that constitute trawling the Jeff?

Best, Zebo, Grant.

Given the celtic nations have supplied 30 of the 42 players will a combined population of 15MM compared to 52MM in England wouldn't it suggest the opposite???

It'd suggest that England would be better off without the traditional dead weight instead of supplying patches to a scratch team.

England are currently touring a T1 nation and are now being denuded of some up-and-coming talent.

I'll support the Lions but only as 5th/5 of the teams in competitions that I generally do.

If more English players were selected/in the test team would you support them more?

Nope.

greytiger wrote:It'd suggest that England would be better off without the traditional dead weight instead of supplying patches to a scratch team.

England are currently touring a T1 nation and are now being denuded of some up-and-coming talent.

I'll support the Lions but only as 5th/5 of the teams in competitions that I generally do.

Why do England need so many first choice players to play a nation that have unequivocally stated prior to the tour that they will not be picking any of their top players for the test series. 

Argentina have not Selected over 20 of their top players...

maestegmafia wrote:

greytiger wrote:It'd suggest that England would be better off without the traditional dead weight instead of supplying patches to a scratch team.

England are currently touring a T1 nation and are now being denuded of some up-and-coming talent.

I'll support the Lions but only as 5th/5 of the teams in competitions that I generally do.

Why do England need so many first choice players to play a nation that have unequivocally stated prior to the tour that they will not be picking any of their top players for the test series. 

Argentina have not Selected over 20 of their top players...

That does not stop them from being a T1 nation in the tinfoil hat wearing world of greytiger.

Solid8 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

greytiger wrote:It'd suggest that England would be better off without the traditional dead weight instead of supplying patches to a scratch team.

England are currently touring a T1 nation and are now being denuded of some up-and-coming talent.

I'll support the Lions but only as 5th/5 of the teams in competitions that I generally do.

Why do England need so many first choice players to play a nation that have unequivocally stated prior to the tour that they will not be picking any of their top players for the test series. 

Argentina have not Selected over 20 of their top players...

That does not stop them from being a T1 nation in the tinfoil hat wearing world of greytiger.

They are undoubtably a Tier One nation, and a very good one too. Wales are a Tier one nation and have sent a squad to play a japanese team that is pretty much the same quality as the Argentina team last weekend. Wales sent one Six Nations starter, most players are third or fourth some are even fifth choice in their position.

maestegmafia wrote:

greytiger wrote:It'd suggest that England would be better off without the traditional dead weight instead of supplying patches to a scratch team.

England are currently touring a T1 nation and are now being denuded of some up-and-coming talent.

I'll support the Lions but only as 5th/5 of the teams in competitions that I generally do.

Why do England need so many first choice players to play a nation that have unequivocally stated prior to the tour that they will not be picking any of their top players for the test series. 

Argentina have not Selected over 20 of their top players...

You (as they say) can only play what's in front of you. Even when you, yourself are only fielding a shadow/development side.

Still a T1 international match though.

Maybe Argentina should have demoted the game to an 'A'-game on the basis of an insurance company's say-so;)

It's still possible that Gatland will choose a XV for the first test which doesn't include an Englishman. That would need him to prefer Grant over Vunipola or Corbs, which is possible, but nowhere near a certainty.

Everywhere else, there are very viable candidates for starting spots from the other three sides if injuries are not an issue.

No need for there to be any Englishmen at all then.

Practicable against this Australian side. Should be a 3-0 win either way.

England have a tough tour against Argentina. All Scotland have to do is play SA and Italy.

If players didn't want to tour its their choice like Wilko so something tells me that they want to be there and are certainly not forced to be there.

Maybe its those players you should be aiming your frustration at when they return to the England side next season.

It is great for 36 but a shame for the England tour. I was looking forward to seeing more of 36 opening up gaps for Wade and Co to speed through.
If he gets Test time against the Aussie Test squad it's worth it. If he's only out there to warm the bench and / risk injury against semi-professionals in games with no substance - I'd rather he didn't go.

Rugby Fan wrote:It's still possible that Gatland will choose a XV for the first test which doesn't include an Englishman. That would need him to prefer Grant over Vunipola or Corbs, which is possible, but nowhere near a certainty.

Everywhere else, there are very viable candidates for starting spots from the other three sides if injuries are not an issue.

Since Grant is not involved this weekend I'd be very surprised, and he didn't do as well as Corbs when he came off the bench against Combined Country. It was always going to be hard for him turning up weeks late as the 5th choice loosehead.

I'd say there are very likely English starters at 1, 2 and 6, but there's a good chance of none in the backs, especially if Tuilagi's shoulder is taking a while to recover.

I thought the OP was just a joke about the accusations of Welsh bias when I first read it. Seems not.

The OP was either:

a) Gt's attempt at humopur - and at times his sense of humour is a little off the wall

or

b) A trademarked Portnoy rant at the iniquities of "the man" and his efforts to handicap the blessed beast that is English Rugby.


Either way I avoided it as you just know the reactions it will get, until now, when curiosity got the better of me.

thomh wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:It's still possible that Gatland will choose a XV for the first test which doesn't include an Englishman. That would need him to prefer Grant over Vunipola or Corbs, which is possible, but nowhere near a certainty.

Everywhere else, there are very viable candidates for starting spots from the other three sides if injuries are not an issue.

Since Grant is not involved this weekend I'd be very surprised, and he didn't do as well as Corbs when he came off the bench against Combined Country. It was always going to be hard for him turning up weeks late as the 5th choice loosehead.

I'd say there are very likely English starters at 1, 2 and 6, but there's a good chance of none in the backs, especially if Tuilagi's shoulder is taking a while to recover.

I thought the OP was just a joke about the accusations of Welsh bias when I first read it. Seems not.

I'm a little disappointed youngs and sexton haven't had a proper run out as a pairing as I think they're best suited to shipping the ball out to the huge back line quickly!

I agree - I wasn't saying I wouldn't select Youngs, just that I don't think Gatland will.

nganboy wrote:England have a tough tour against Argentina. All Scotland have to do is play SA and Italy.

That's a tough call after the might of Samoa.

thomh wrote:I agree - I wasn't saying I wouldn't select Youngs, just that I don't think Gatland will.

Youngs is very small for a hooker. If the Lions want to over power Australia up front its unlikely that Youngs will be picked. Then again if they really wanted to over power Australia up front Sheridan would probably be sniffing around the test 15.

valtrepkos wrote:

I'm a little disappointed youngs and sexton haven't had a proper run out as a pairing as I think they're best suited to shipping the ball out to the huge back line quickly!

The reason Sexton and Philips will be picked is because they both represent a line threat and therefore can use eachother as decoys. If the Aussie D is focusing on Sexton Philips can snipe if they are focusing on Philips Sexton can do his stuff.

Personally I'm concerned of the service Phillips will provide Sexton and also his management of Genia which in the past hasn't been that great. He get too involved in defence.

Youngs on the other hand plays a good sweeper role in defence and has the pace to stop any linebreaks before they get too significant. He's the only scrumhalf I know who has managed to ruffle Genia more than once. In attack Youngs is very useful too... not as good as Care mind.

GunsGerms wrote:

valtrepkos wrote:

I'm a little disappointed youngs and sexton haven't had a proper run out as a pairing as I think they're best suited to shipping the ball out to the huge back line quickly!

The reason Sexton and Philips will be picked is because they both represent a line threat and therefore can use eachother as decoys. If the Aussie D is focusing on Sexton Philips can snipe if they are focusing on Philips Sexton can do his stuff.

Youngs is pretty handy at sniping runs in fairness. .....

We're not going to win the series by having 3 flankers instead of 2. We're far more likely to win with Sexton running the game and giving him the best possible platform.

Had it been SA or NZ I would have gone with Phillips but Genia and AUS are a different beast and it requires a different approach IMO.

Gatland will go Phillips though. In the end its not a bad choice but I think it could be a deciding factor in the tour.

valtrepkos wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

valtrepkos wrote:

I'm a little disappointed youngs and sexton haven't had a proper run out as a pairing as I think they're best suited to shipping the ball out to the huge back line quickly!

The reason Sexton and Philips will be picked is because they both represent a line threat and therefore can use eachother as decoys. If the Aussie D is focusing on Sexton Philips can snipe if they are focusing on Philips Sexton can do his stuff.

Youngs is pretty handy at sniping runs in fairness. .....

He is but he needs a gap. Philips just makes a gap even when there isnt one there. Thats the difference and why the Aussie D will need to keep an eye on him.

No more so then a O'Brien though... well probably less so in fact.

I've always wondered why Welsh flyhalves have always tended to struggle partnering Phillips??? Is it them, is it Phillips... I think its a mix of both.

Best the the Celtic Lions got on with it and spared the English any embarrassment and injury.

Remember, this is not just Oz - it's a Deans' Oz.

Wade on his way to plug another gap.

Oh Jeez. Bradley now.

Why don't they fish in the PluckyScotttish© pond?

Quite simply, GT, all Scottish centres are vastly inferior to the mighty BB

They must be uninspiring then As.

The nearer the pointy end of this dreadful tournament gets, the crocked Celts go home (or hide behind neutral performances (BOD®) and the more the English have to act as Polyfilla.