Club Comp's

I realise that this question will have been done to death on here and elsewhere, but it's a bit annoying at times. Firstly I have no interest in winning club comps, (Nice if happens) the only reason I enter is to try and reduce my handicap, but thats me.

Last Wednesday evening I entered the mid-week medal and was down for teeing off at 5:20 with 1 other player. Guys had been teeing off since 1pm mostly in pairs and the odd 3-ball, there were even a couple of single players who had a member walking with them and marking their card. In my round i noticed one 2-ball playing from the yellow tees (We use the blue championship tees which are in a different county) I saw one bloke retrieve his ball from a field which was OB, and carry on playing from near where his ball went over. I saw one bloke who had clearly lost at least 2-balls in some serious cabbage and later heard he'd carded a 5!! There was all sorts of things going on out there. There was even a young kid who's a great player at times, hit his drive deep into the cabbage, he found said ball and proceeded to use a driver from the thick stuff. He could only see a bit of his ball and of course he put it in deeper, so suspect he wanted to keep his present handicap ....

Should QC events be drawn out of the hat, because mates all playing together and choosing their tee times etc, is wide open to abuse. Yes I suppose the mid week format is a bit more layed back due to members working etc, but if I see so much stuff going on through the week, you just know it goes on at weekends with some groups of mates. I'm aware that at least 2 people have written to the committee about some of last weeks antics, but bet they never saw what I witnessed!!

Doc, I think comps should be drawn as much to introduce members to other members as to wheedle this kind of stuff out. Maybe I'm very naive but I would like to think that 90% of what goes on is down to lack of knowledge rather than downright cheating.

Having said that, I would be interested to hear from people whose clubs have introduced a draw systems for comps and how it was received. I suspect not well as a lot of people only like playing with their mates.

Humpyd, I agree There are plenty of people who don't even bother entering at their new clubs, because they percieve it to be cliquey. Our club sells itself as not being cliquey, but its the same faces playing each comp, and they always play together, with the rest of the clique in the following or preceeding groups. I even heard about a problem last week, whereby one member who had put his name down for a particular tee time, was informed a few days later that he'd been moved to a different tee time. It turns out that one member who had forgotten to enter got him moved so he could play with his mates. New members should be encouraged to join in and this would mean getting them playing with anybody, high, low or mid handicappers. It should teach them the local rules, on-course etiquette etc, and help integrate them.

Problem is, clubs rely on the entry fees to comps to a degree so they will do anything to make is easier for people to play in them which usually means 'play with your mates'.

But I guess clubs are trying to get away from that cliquey view a lot of people still have.

How much are clubs charging to enter comps these days?

I have always been a fan of drawn comps, it keeps you on your toes because your not in your cosy usual 4ball. It promotes getting to know other members and stops the whispers in the clubhouse after if someones score doesn't seem to match their play! I've played in competitions 4balls that have lost me friends because I've pulled them up on giving themselves a better lie than they had when they found a ball or found a ball that was clearly lost. I reported them after the round to rules comittee and was told you lost a friend their to which I've replied I don't need friends that cheat and never played with them again.

I've also gained friends for that very reason as integrity in this game is of uppermost importance above and beyond what your score is at the end of the round

Glad in a way to hear that this problem isn't confined to my club. We're trying to get away from the cliquey, play with your mates setup, and a new computer system is helping with that, but it does ultimately come down to the necessity of raising enough cash.

One other solution to that problem has been a monthly prize draw. To join you have to pay £5 per month by standing order, and each month prizes to the value of £100, £50 and 4 x £25 are paid out, with the remainder (roughly the same amount - it's called the 100 club!) going to fund prizes etc for the comps, and to help the junior section.

I'm just starting my 3rd year as a member at my club and they take pride in the fact that ALL the competitions are drawn

In fct I played last weekend with some guys who are founder members of the club (it's just approaching 20 years) and I mentioned this very thing to them. They said that it was a conscious decision right from the start to make all competitions drawn events for the very reasons stated.

Though I've found my own little group of people who I like to play social games with, I wouldn't want it any other way. It's nice to be drawn occasionally with one other close friend and one or two others who I don't know so well but generally I like to play with and meet others in the club who I don't know so well

And to answer Mac's question, all competitions at my club are £5 to enter - £4 of which goes to the main prize fund and £1 goes into the kitty to be split amongst anyone who scores a 2

Should everything be drawn? No. Or you would only be able to enter at specific times. Should people be monitored on the course? Yes. As there are some who do take advantage of that situation to post lower scores.

LondonJonnyO wrote:Should everything be drawn? No. Or you would only be able to enter at specific times.

When a competition comes up at my course, either in the clubhouse or on the members' website, you get 60 or 90 minute slots to enter. You then get drawn in that slot. For big competitions yo may have the choice of 7:30-9:00, 9:00-10:30, 10:30-12:00 (and further if the comp is big enough). That should be enough leeway for anyone

All comps are £3.00 - 5.00 to enter. They are all drawn out of a hat, so you rarely play with the same 2 people again. Much better than my last club which was clquey, divisive and half-full of back-stabbing cheating b@stards!

Thing is davie not everyone wants to play in the morning. And that restricts people who prefer the afternoon from playing

So you are saying that the clubs who don't have drawn comps allow them to be played at ANY time during the day? Someone can say "well I don't want to play between 7:30am and 1:00pm so I'll form my own little group at 3:30?

Pretty much yes. In several clubs they have medal weekends. You can only enter once but can do so at any time over the weekend.

Well I've learned something new. Never heard of that before. Doesn't it lead to abuse from people knowing what the weather forecast is likely to be?

I couldn't imagine any other sportsman being allowed to choose what time he wanted to play

"sorry boss I can't play for United at 3pm Saturday because the missus needs me to take her to Homebase"

It is an oddity. But then everyone has the same tools to check forecasts and also the ability to select the most comfortable time for them

Should comps be drawn no.
I enjoy playing with my mates, and as we have comps most weekends, we always enter them, on the first tee we swap cards, I mark the card correctly and make sure, that the rules are adhered to, we just make sure our scores are correct, and any adjustments to our handicap, is in line with the way we have played.
Golf is a pleasure thing, start worrying about other peoples scores would really take the pleasure part out of my golf

Davie, at my club we run the set-up described by LJ - medal (or competition) weekends. It's never struck me as being odd but I guess that's because I've never known anything different.

The only competitions that are drawn are the shotgun start type and even then some people can't bear being without their mates for 4 hours and so request to play with them!!

oldparwin wrote:Should comps be drawn no.
I enjoy playing with my mates, and as we have comps most weekends, we always enter them, on the first tee we swap cards, I mark the card correctly and make sure, that the rules are adhered to, we just make sure our scores are correct, and any adjustments to our handicap, is in line with the way we have played.
Golf is a pleasure thing, start worrying about other peoples scores would really take the pleasure part out of my golf

Agreed

the vast majority of our comps are balloted in half-hourly slots. you turn up before the half hour mark, sign in and then the pro comes out with the cards and they're picked at random in 3s. there are some in the morning, some at lunch and some late afternoon.

as pointed out above, it's very good for mixing things up socially and i thoroughly enjoy it.

Some good points being raised here, and I think that all clubs should have a good % of QC comps put in the diary as drawn out of the hat. I like the idea of hourly slots to put your name into to ensure you are able to hit the particular tee time after the draw, and I don't mind some comps being left to individual preferences.

But if the club are not willing to take control of what happens on the course during comps, it's like the kids taking over the school yard if a teacher isn't present. All our clubs will have a bunch of young players who are all mates, and some will want to get a score they would not possibly achieve without a bit of cheating. Some will want to engineer a higher score as they think they have a better chance in other comps. This problem is just not the younger end and can happen with a bunch of mates from any age group. I fully accept oldparwins viewpoint, that he enjoys playing with the same group of mates and respect that point of view and am not insinuating that anything dodgy goes on. BUT there will always be a perception that it could, and I also think that maybe some of the members at OP's club might enjoy playing a round with him and get to know him.

Absolutley nothing wrong with social golf, bounce games, roll-ups etc, or QC events without a draw, but my own humble opinion is that the majority of club events should be drawn out of the hat for the benefit of the clubs. This can break down barriers, prove that the club isn't cliquey, improve relations between members and the big plus is new members being included into more comps where they can meet new friends and get to know everyone.

I agree with OPW's sentiments, the day i start worrying that my fellow club members are cheating is they day i walk away from the game...

We don't have any drawn comps except opens etc, you just put your name down in a time slot... i often put it next to a name i dont recognise, but also arrange to play with mates as well...

We have a Sunday AM roll up where your drawn into 4s and play a 4bbb match with stakes decided by the group, there are also swindles for the for roll up bank holiday medals and thursday stablefords where they chuck a few more quid in a throw up the balls... these are driven by the members though to dictated by the committee. Matchplay comps are great for intergration one of the 5 we have, your partner is drawn and if you get on a run in a few of them you can meet losts of other members.

If my club needed to have random draws for comps to (a) stop cheating and/or (b) to stop cliques developing/encourage integration... i think i'd look elsewhere, its not really the membership i'd want to be a part of.

i have two memberships. each club has a different system.

at my home club the vast majority of comps are booked with your mates. i think there are something like 25-30 comps this year. generally you have to organise your 3ball and phone in the friday at 5pm, a week before the medal [i.e. 8 or 9 days in advance depending whether its a saturday or sunday medal]. we have a group of about 20 guys on an email pool where we organise who is available and who will pair up with whom, and who will book each group in. there are a few 'regulars', but generally we get a good mix of different pairings between us. its a shame that we've had to resort to creating a mini-club to get a good mix of medal partners. A good few of the 20 guys in our pool are folk who have been added in by the club to make up a 3 ball if there have only been 2 of us in a slot. there are clearly a lot of folk at our club who regularly miss out on playing club comps because they don't have anyone to book them into their group - not everyone is free at 5pm on a friday to phone or turn up at the club! Three of the comps are drawn by the club. You select a half hour time slot and are drawn into 3s. there is still a high possibility of getting drawn with your mates if they have all plummed for the same half hour slot.

at my away club all weekend medals are drawn. a sheet goes up on the board about a month in advance and you put your name within a 1h30min time bracket, you can add 'early' or 'late' if you have a particular preference within that bracket. all weekday medals are booked with your mates. personally i think this is a far better balance.

i've found matchplay comps have also been good for meeting other members over the last year or so.

As stated before I am a fan of drawn events but our clubs policy is the regular monthly medal you put down your 4 ball and are allocated a time slot by the club. All other competitions are drawn at random this seems to suit all members as the ones who only want comp play with mates tend to stick to medals only and all members are catered for

One further negative of not drawing comps - people play in their cliques and they reckon they are fast players (yes all of 'em) and everyone else is slow. IMO one of the major causes of discontent about pace of play. On the odd occasion they can be prised out of their cliques - hey presto everything seems different!!! I know there is a parapet of slow play one should not stick the old napper above - but it's true! Cosy 4 ball having a good old gripe about everyone else - and never looking more than one group ahead to see what is happening.
Give me drawn comps every time.

puligny - "Cosy 4 ball having a good old gripe about everyone else" - sadly very, very true.