IRB Junior Player of the Year - ridiculous shortlist?

With the JWC drawing to a close the time is coming to vote for the junior player of the year, and the shortlist is:

Ardie Savea (NZ)
Sam Davies (Wales)
Jack Clifford (England)

I'm not being funny but that shortlist is ridiculous. The much hyped Baby Black captain has been disappointing, nowhere standing out as much as his brother did those years ago. There are a few South Africans who can feel hard done by there.
Somehow the Wales fly-half worms his way onto the list, pretty much like he worms his way around the field. After watching him at this level for 2 years I've been a big critic of his, but gave him his due credit for his contribution against South Africa. However post final 4 play-off I was astonished to see that people forgot how average he is and all of a sudden think he is going to be a class player... I can think of several Wales players delivering a far better contribution to our team.

Jack Clifford has been nothing short of exceptional. A great leader and possibly the best U20 player in the world. He should be leading the votes by miles.

I'm hugely biased here

Dan Biggar is excellent, but Sam Davies could be huge!

ChequeredJersey wrote:I'm hugely biased here

You voted for Savea?

Well I'm Welsh and I've seen how good Clifford has been for the U20s since the 2012 u20 Six Nations. He's also been in the England Sevens team.

LondonTiger wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:I'm hugely biased here

You voted for Savea?

Obviously

What I have seen of Savea has been good.

What does the following mean? "Somehow the Wales fly-half worms his way onto the list, pretty much like he worms his way around the field."  How has Sam Davies "wormed" himself onto the list? Ridiculous post.

I rate Clifford a lot and voted for him, but then he is a Quin

I do like Crusaders though, Christchurch is a great place both in rugby terms and as a very friendly town, one of my best friends moved out there when he was 8 so it's my favourite New Zealand team

Exiledinborders wrote:What I have seen of Savea has been good.

What does the following mean? "Somehow the Wales fly-half worms his way onto the list, pretty much like he worms his way around the field."  How has Sam Davies "wormed" himself onto the list? Ridiculous post.

Savea is a good player but not lived up to the hype for me. Jacques Du Plessis is more worthy of being on the list.
It's pretty obvious what I meant. Though to clarify he is very slow running with the ball in hand. Must be a humour fail on my part. Perhaps you could tell us who you believe should win this award and why?

Pehaps we will watch the careers of both players and confirm then. Savea is already tipped as a future AB here...time will tell.

I am cautious about predicting anything as far as Clifford goes because of Alex Gray.  Many (myself included) thought he was going to go on and be a very good player,  but he seems to have sunk like a stone.  I must admit,  when I watched Clifford last year I thought he would be too small to effective at the very highest level and would become a Richard Thorpe type player.  An honest trier who just didn't quite have the quality to really make am impact.

However,  when I think back to Gray comparison and why he hasn't kicked on- he never really had the carrying abilities that Clifford has developed or the work-rate at the breakdown.  Clifford also follows play like an open side, running the support lines.  His performances in this year's tournament have made me a lot more optimistic.

Clifford will be in a good position at Quins as well as the Easter is getting on and Guest is 28/29 so Cliff will get a good run in a season or two.

Taylorman wrote:Pehaps we will watch the careers of both players and confirm then. Savea is already tipped as a future AB here...time will tell.

Yes you are correct. Apologies for coming across as too critical, I just don't see him being a future AB right now. Though I suppose coaches in NZ always know how to spot a future talent.
The only way I see SD having a career is if daddy gives him a contract. Because for now I don't see any potential there, compared to the likes of Amos, Jordan and Rhodri Williams, Jones, Dixon, Bennet and Jenkins. There hasn't been many standout players for us but I believe our scrum half is the one worthy of being in contention for Junior player of the year.
The WRU are already putting up posters highlighting that SD kicked 20 points against Argentina, urging the Welsh pubic to vote for his candidacy. I bet three quarters of them haven't even watched a game. And if you think back to the European final there was outrage over Johnny winning player of the year, with claims that all he can do is slot over goals behind a massive pack.

Clifford is easily the best player there but I also think that there should be other players on the shortlist. Incidentally, I actually think that Davies is underrated - Patchell seems to get all of the hype but SD doesn't make many mistakes.

The Saint wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Pehaps we will watch the careers of both players and confirm then. Savea is already tipped as a future AB here...time will tell.

Yes you are correct. Apologies for coming across as too critical, I just don't see him being a future AB right now. Though I suppose coaches in NZ always know how to spot a future talent.
The only way I see SD having a career is if daddy gives him a contract. Because for now I don't see any potential there, compared to the likes of Amos, Jordan and Rhodri Williams, Jones, Dixon, Bennet and Jenkins. There hasn't been many standout players for us but I believe our scrum half is the one worthy of being in contention for Junior player of the year.
The WRU are already putting up posters highlighting that SD kicked 20 points against Argentina, urging the Welsh pubic to vote for his candidacy. I bet three quarters of them haven't even watched a game. And if you think back to the European final there was outrage over Johnny winning player of the year, with claims that all he can do is slot over goals behind a massive pack.

Rhodri Williams has been player of the tournament...! He has been a huge influence on every game and should be recognised for his impact

George Carlin wrote:Clifford is easily the best player there but I also think that there should be other players on the shortlist. Incidentally, I actually think that Davies is underrated - Patchell seems to get all of the hype but SD doesn't make many mistakes.

Patchell is rightly hyped. He's been playing very well for Cardiff. We'd have been out of sight in the group stages had he been there.
You're incorrect on SD I'm sorry to say. He came in to the 2012 u20 Six Nations because Morgan wasn't released by the Ospreys. So I've had the opportunity to see him feature in all of our U20 games since then and he makes mistakes, way too many for a fly-half.

And here was me just watching the games that Mrs Davies told me to watch.

GC, I think he is just our 'solid' option that we used when Morgan and Patchell were not available. He's done his job well enough so I don't think we can ask more of him. It's Wales work as a unit which is their strength, not individual brilliance (as was the case in past teams).

yappysnap wrote:Clifford will be in a good position at Quins as well as the Easter is getting on and Guest is 28/29 so Cliff will get a good run in a season or two.

Or he'll move to 6/7 which is just as likely

The Saint wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Clifford is easily the best player there but I also think that there should be other players on the shortlist. Incidentally, I actually think that Davies is underrated - Patchell seems to get all of the hype but SD doesn't make many mistakes.

Patchell is rightly hyped. He's been playing very well for Cardiff. We'd have been out of sight in the group stages had he been there.
You're incorrect on SD I'm sorry to say. He came in to the 2012 u20 Six Nations because Morgan wasn't released by the Ospreys. So I've had the opportunity to see him feature in all of our U20 games since then and he makes mistakes, way too many for a fly-half.

Sam Davies has made some great kicks but some awful passes, missing his man. He has a hell of a lot to work on. That said, he had even more to work on last year and during the six nations again and he has improved every time. He is constantly maturing into a very useful player.

Certainly not worthy of player of the tournament though. Rhodri Williams wins that hands down. Best player in the Welsh team and best in the tournament so far.

Well I wonder who made the final decision...

I thought the Welsh open side may of got a mention he has been a 1 man pack for Wales.

Or maybe the Welsh full back, he has been a fantastic strike runner.

Sam Davies has done well but the three games I have watched he missed a tackle that lead to a try, in fact he is a waste of space in defence. I see no future at the Ospreys they will not put up with girlie tackles.

SD was pants against England in the 6Ns in Colwyn Bay, he had an ok game today but there must have been a lot of welsh votes gone his way so maybe the voters have seen something I haven't.

Jack Clifford would have been a worthy winner IMO from the games I have watched.

Shouldn't the award be open to all players 20 or under??? I.e. chaps like James O'Connor. 

These guys are not really the best juniors as the best juniors are already playing test rugby... So really this award is the best of the rest.
They should open it up to get some perspective.

fa0019 wrote:Shouldn't the award be open to all players 20 or under??? I.e. chaps like James O'Connor. 

These guys are not really the best juniors as the best juniors are already playing test rugby... So really this award is the best of the rest.
They should open it up to get some perspective.

O'Connor is 22.

Still, crazily young