Crunch the Numbers. A lesson in history.

I havent posted on here for ages (apart from a few days ago to reminisce about Carisbrook) but I feel you Lions supporters are about to implode! I am not a rugby stat freak but i really do want to dredge up some numbers from the past. A golden age of Lions rugby. The 1971 Lions team to NZ was full of great players. Where did most of them come from. 1 country.

Let me list some stats.
1st Test Dunedin

16 players made the field. No substitutions in the 70's! 8 of them were Welsh. (50%)

4th and deciding test in Auckland. 14 all draw. 9 of 19 were Welsh (47%). Lions win series

If Gatland clears his bench on Saturday then 11 of 23 are Welsh (48%)
If they win they will be regarded as Lions heroes.
I heard WJMcB deriding Gatlands decision to drop BOD but do you think he was cryin to Carwyn James that Fergus Slattery didnt get a spot in the final test.
I doubt it!
Gatlands made his decision and he sure as hell knows that he will live or die by it.
He didnt do it on a whim!

Im sure BOD will be gutted but he knows how the Lions work.

To those of you posting this is the end of the Lions....

Maybe you need to go and have a look at the Lions website and scroll thru their tours from the 1890s forward.

WJMcB
Tony O'Reilly
Andy Irvine
JPR
Bill Beaumont
Jim Telfer
David Duckham...

I could go on.
The Lions are unique.
They will continue.

Enjoy the game on Saturday. I will and i am 100% neutral.

The difference is that Welsh team in the seventies was head and shoulders above the others. The current Welsh team is not. Yes they are 6N champions but onlybon points difference from England. Their record against SH teams is the worst of the NH teams.

Some of the Welsh players deserve their places of course e.g. Adam Jones but some clearly do not e.g. Mike Phillips.

Exiledinborders wrote:The difference is that Welsh team in the seventies was head and shoulders above the others. The current Welsh team is not. Yes they are 6N champions but onlybon points difference from England. Their record against SH teams is the worst of the NH teams.

Some of the Welsh players deserve their places of course e.g. Adam Jones but some clearly do not e.g. Mike Phillips.

Did they become great pre or post 1971?

Mind you as Wales they lost 6 straight to NZ from 1967 to 1980- four at the Arms so the SH scale wasnt too different then either- but throughout that the Welsh Lions efforts helped win them 2 great Lions tours (71 and 74) so exiled the comparison is still similar to todays efforts- if the Lions win that is....

Taylorman wrote:Mind you as Wales they lost 6 straight to NZ from 1967 to 1980- four at the Arms so the SH scale wasnt too different then either- but throughout that the Welsh Lions efforts helped win them 2 great Lions tours (71 and 74) so exiled the comparison is still similar to todays efforts- if the Lions win that is....

Before Brisbane I'm sure Gatland and all Lions supporters would have been rapt going to Sydney for a decider!

As an aside Taylorman big game in Wgtn tomorrow. Highlanders looking to surge their way into 14th on the points table!

Amazing a side with Gear, Woodcock, Ben and Aaron Smith, Nonu, Brad Thorn, Slade, Hoeta, Poki etc can be almost winless for so long...scary...

Taylorman wrote:Amazing a side with Gear, Woodcock, Ben and Aaron Smith, Nonu, Brad Thorn, Slade, Hoeta, Poki etc can be almost winless for so long...scary...

Add to that list ABs Hore, Ellison and Mackintosh. A season that promised so much has become a total nightmare! The joys of following Otago!!!!

I actually picked them to be leading from the start then do the usual fall off they've done recent years. Nasi Manu was a big big loss at that stage. Nonu is obviously finding it too cold down there. Maybe he wont get a sxv contract and have to play club until the AB's play. That'd be hilarious.

Taylorman wrote:I actually picked them to be leading from the start then do the usual fall off they've done recent years. Nasi Manu was a big big loss at that stage. Nonu is obviously finding it too cold down there. Maybe he wont get a sxv contract and have to play club until the AB's play. That'd be hilarious.

Ma'a was like an accident waiting to happen last Saturday. He was trying so hard when he came off the bench but was just totally reckless. His late tackle on Dan was pure stupidity. I like Ma'a as a player and Im always first to defend him but he is quickly running out of S15 options in NZ. Technically i presume he can be selected from ABs if only playing club rugby.

Good to see Ben Smith re-signing with Otago + NZRFU. A one club/province/S15/ and ABs. Only ray of hope for Highlanders this season.

Gunner wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:The difference is that Welsh team in the seventies was head and shoulders above the others. The current Welsh team is not. Yes they are 6N champions but onlybon points difference from England. Their record against SH teams is the worst of the NH teams.

Some of the Welsh players deserve their places of course e.g. Adam Jones but some clearly do not e.g. Mike Phillips.

Did they become great pre or post 1971?

Post.

And Wales were not head and shoulders above the other teams in the Five Nations in the seventies. 72 was canned due to IRA threats, 73 was a draw. Ireland were as strong if not stronger than Wales in the early seventies. They took the championship in 74 in which Wales were third drawing in two games and only winning one.

Wales took GSs in 76 and 78 the championship in 75 and 79. The triple crown in 77. France were a great team then.


I agree the OP has made some very sensible points, while the rest of the board seem to have gone a bit loopy over the make up of the current team.

Regardless of the results in the 70's Wales had the best players in world rugby and with England of the early 2000's are the two times NH had the better players. What Wales probably lacked, and what cost them vs the ABs- although close- was a full 15 complement, something England had, with not quite the star quality of the Edwards, JPR's, Bennets and Johns.

NZ had terible sides in the 70's and not many great names are from that era. BG, Going, Bruce Robertson, Kirky and Batty are it until the Mourie, Dalton, Wilson and co came on the scene.

There's a saying in some parts that when Auckland rugby is strong the All Blacks are strong. Is it true that when Welsh rugby is strong, the Lions are strong too?

GloriousEmpire wrote:There's a saying in some parts that when Auckland rugby is strong the All Blacks are strong. Is it true that when Welsh rugby is strong, the Lions are strong too?