Harlequins 2013/14 Season Discussion Thread

[yappysnap]

First topic message reminder :

So a few other teams had their own threads last season, it seemed to work well and seeing as it's far easier to steal someone else's idea then think up your own...

WELCOME TO THE HARLEQUINS 2013/14 SEASON DISCUSSION THREAD!

The Squad for 13/14:
Director of Rugby Conor O'Shea
Head Coach John Kingston
First Team Coach Tony Diprose
Assistant First Team Coach Mark Mapletoft
Assistant First Team Coach Collin Osborne

Hooker
Joe Gray
Rob Buchanan
Dave Ward

Loosehead Prop:
Joe Marler
Mark Lambert
Nick Mayhew
Daryl Marfo

Tighthead Prop
Paul Doran Jones
Will Collier
Kyle Sinckler  

Lock
George Robson   
Charlie Matthews
George Merrick
Sam Twomey  

Blindside
Maurie Fa'asavalu
Joe Trayfoot  

Openside
Chris Robshaw
Luke Wallace

Number 8
Nick Easter
Tom Guest
Jack Clifford

Scrum Half
Danny Care
Karl Dickson

Fly Half
Nick Evans  
Ben Botica
Louis Grimoldby

Inside Centre
Jordan Turner-Hall  
Tom Casson  
Harry Sloan

Outside Centre
George Lowe
Matt Hopper
Charlie Walker

Wing
Ugo Monye
Tom Williams
Sam Smith
Miles Mantella


Fullback
Mike Brown
Ross Chisholm
Ollie Lindsay-Hague

Fixtures:

Harlequins are pleased to confirm an exciting and challenging opening for the 2013-14 Aviva Premiership season.
 
The Londoners kick-off the new season against local rivals London Wasps at Twickenham Stadium during the London Double Header on 7th September, kick-off 4.30pm (Live on BT Sport).

2013 Aviva Premiership finalists, Northampton Saints are the visitors for the first home game at The Twickenham Stoop on Friday 13th September, kick-off 7:45pm (Live on BT Sport).

The second home game welcomes Heineken Cup semi-finalists Saracens on 28th September, kick-off 3.15pm (Live on BT Sport).

Exeter Chiefs will be the visitors to Twickenham Stadium for the sixth Big Game on Saturday 28th December. More information about Big Game 6 will be provided in coming months.

The Londoners will open their Heineken Cup campaign over the weekend of the 11th/12th/13th October, while the defence of the LV= Cup will begin during the second weekend of November. Fixture dates and times are expected by ERC and Premiership rugby later this month.

The only way to guarantee your place at all of the regular season home fixtures is by becoming a Member. Information on the innovative Membership scheme and how to become a Member is available by clicking here or by calling 0208 744 4477.

"There is no such thing as an easy match in the Aviva Premiership and there is no doubt that our opening fixtures are very demanding," said Conor O'Shea, Harlequins Director of Rugby.

"Once again we will be competing in three great competitions against top class opposition from this country and Europe. Our Premiership campaign gets underway with the London Double Header against Wasps on 7th September and is followed during that month with tough home matches with Northampton Saints and Saracens as well as a trip to Sixways to play against Dean Ryan's Worcester.

"Given the quality of the opposition, we hope that our supporters will be looking forward to returning to The Stoop to get behind their team as we set out on the marathon that is the Premiership with all its related ups and downs."

Tickets for the new season's home games will go on sale on Monday 15th July. Tickets can be purchased online or by calling 0208 410 6000
Harlequins Fixtures
Please note fixtures after Round 8 are subject to change

Round 1
Saturday September 7: London Wasps v Harlequins (4.30pm, Twickenham Stadium, BT Sport)

Round 2
Friday September 13:Harlequins v Northampton Saints (7.45pm BT Sport)

Round3
Friday September 21: Worcester Warriors v Harlequins (7.45pm BT Sport)

Round 4
Saturday September 28: Harlequins v Saracens (3.15pm BT Sport)

Round 5
Saturday October 5: London Irish v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Heineken Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun October 11/12/13 Heineken Cup

Fri/Sat/Sun October 18/19/20 Heineken Cup

Round 6
Saturday October 26: Harlequins v Sale Sharks (3.00pm)

Round 7
Saturday November 2: Leicester Tigers v Harlequins (5.30pm BT Sport)

LV= Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun November 9 LV= Cup

Fri/Sat/Sun November 16 LV= Cup

Round 8
Saturday November 23: Harlequins v Gloucester Rugby (3.00pm)

Round 9
Sunday December 1: Newcastle Falcons v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Heineken Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun Dec 6/7/8 Heineken Cup

Fri/Sat/Sun Dec 13/14/15Heineken Cup

Round 10
Saturday December 21st: Bath Rugby v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Round 11
Sat December 28: BIG GAME 6 Harlequins v Exeter Chiefs (3.00pm)

Round 12
Saturday January 4: Northampton Saints v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Heineken Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun January 10/11/12 Heineken Cup
Fri/Sat/ Sun January 17/18/19 Heineken Cup

LV= Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun Jan 24/25/26 LV= Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun Jan 31 Feb 1 /2 LV= Cup

Round 13
Saturday February 8: Harlequins v London Wasps (3.00pm)

Round 14
Saturday February 15: Harlequins v Newcastle Falcons (3.00pm)

Round 15
Saturday February 22: Gloucester Rugby v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Round 16
Saturday March 1: Harlequins v Worcester Warriors (3.00pm)

Round 17
Saturday March 22: Saracens v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Round 18
Saturday March 29: Harlequins v London Irish (3.00pm)

Round 19
Friday April 11: Sale Sharks v Harlequins (7.45pm)

Round 20
Saturday April 19: Harlequins v Leicester Tigers (3.00pm)

Round 21
Saturday May 3: Exeter Chiefs v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Round 22
Saturday May 10: Harlequins v Bath Rugby (3.00pm)

Whether you're a Quins fan or not please feel free to discuss, argue, banter and bicker below. And  to 2014's Aviva Prem Champs!!    

COYQ's!!!!

[propdavid_london]

I saw a picture published recently that had Mo is a foot brace - not sure if he's had some work on it recently!
We could well do with him being fired up at the start of the season.

[yappysnap]

That may well be an option HKC, unfortunately Mo was kack last season so it could just make things worse.

Hopefully CoS has a gameplan for a smaller pack as its not just Kohn but Jj and then inevitably having to rest Easter as well. We are going to be a lot lighter across the pack.

[HongKongCherry]

That may well be an option HKC, unfortunately Mo was kack last season so it could just make things worse.

Hopefully CoS has a gameplan for a smaller pack as its not just Kohn but Jj and then inevitably having to rest Easter as well. We are going to be a lot lighter across the pack.

It sounds like you're trying to style yourself on Glaws!  

[yappysnap]

I hope not, I couldn't deal with all that success... 

[HongKongCherry]

Yappy, I genuinely wouldn't wish it on anyone. It is terribly good for the character though as I am humble and twisted in equal measures...  

[yappysnap]

All that business hanging toilet seats round your neck and chasing cheese down hills HKC! It's not good for you. Anyway Quins are still pretty good at putting pressure on ourselves, just look at the Jeff play off  

[Poorfour]

John Kingston has done a video on Quins TV where he hints quite strongly that he thinks the hit will be reduced by more than the 25% quoted because of the enforcement of "no early push".

That, and the recruitment of Kennedy instead of an enforcer make me think that Quins are going with a more mobile pack this season and possibly focusing on the lineout. A back five of Robson, Matthews/Kennedy, Guest, Robshaw and Easter gives a lot of potential targets for the thrower.

[HongKongCherry]

John Kingston has done a video on Quins TV where he hints quite strongly that he thinks the hit will be reduced by more than the 25% quoted because of the enforcement of "no early push".

That, and the recruitment of Kennedy instead of an enforcer make me think that Quins are going with a more mobile pack this season and possibly focusing on the lineout. A back five of Robson, Matthews/Kennedy, Guest, Robshaw and Easter gives a lot of potential targets for the thrower.

This may well be true, however, I have also read in a number of places that it is actually strength of the the front row that is now the dominant factor and not technique, so a smaller mobile pack is still going to struggle unless there is a big, powerful front row. The back 5 may have less impact on the scrum though, so Kohn may not be missed as much in that aspect.

[ChequeredJersey]

On the new rules and their impact: everyone is guessing. Wevwillnsoon see the truth

[HongKongCherry]

On the new rules and their impact: everyone is guessing. Wevwillnsoon see the truth

CJ have you been drinking again?!

[Poorfour]

John Kingston has done a video on Quins TV where he hints quite strongly that he thinks the hit will be reduced by more than the 25% quoted because of the enforcement of "no early push".

That, and the recruitment of Kennedy instead of an enforcer make me think that Quins are going with a more mobile pack this season and possibly focusing on the lineout. A back five of Robson, Matthews/Kennedy, Guest, Robshaw and Easter gives a lot of potential targets for the thrower.

This may well be true, however, I have also read in a number of places that it is actually strength of the the front row that is now the dominant factor and not technique, so a smaller mobile pack is still going to struggle unless there is a big, powerful front row.  The back 5 may have less impact on the scrum though, so Kohn may not be missed as much in that aspect.

Well, the hope has to be that we get back to something like we had before the hit scrum was invented. In that case, strength will matter, but good technique can have the effect of nullifying a stronger but less adept opponent. We should also find out who really has technique... props who have relied on illegal binding and being able to force a collapse and get away with it should find life much harder - if the refs do their job properly.

And yes, CJ, no-one really knows, but JK's record in forging strong scrums makes me think he is more likely than most to be right.

[yappysnap]

The worry is that a weak scrum coupled with a gameplan which asks for a lot of ball handling so potentially lots of knock ons could be suicidal. Especially as judging by last season any ball we get in out own 22 we'll try and run.

[Poorfour]

Not sure that's such a worry. If you reduce the dominance of the hit, then we get back to the situation of old where a skilled but lighter pack could hold its own against a bigger one for long enough to secure its own ball or force the opposition to use theirs, i.e. the scrum goes back to being a way to restart after minor technical infringements and not a penalty machine.

Has Brian Moore expressed an opinion yet? He's been arguing for something like this for ages.

[logansrun38]

Quins front row are useless. They will get hammered every game next season

[Poorfour]

Quins front row are useless. They will get hammered every game next season

I'd be interested to know why you think that, and whether you believe the new scrum engagement rules will make a difference. It's an unusual view to take, since a) the Quins front row has been pretty effective for the last two seasons, b) 2/3 of that front row are still in place, and c) the Quins coaching team has a good track record of turning unheralded props into international standard ones.

I would really like to know why you think what you think. But I doubt I'm going to get a reasoned answer.

[thomh]

Didn't know this thread existed, glad to have found it. The Quins forum at rugbynetwork has all gone a bit "what happened to ma skoooool?" recently.

The second row is going to be very interesting this year. Neither Kennedy or Robson are natural number 4s, but Kennedy is probably a slight upgrade on Robson with his athletic ability. I think there's a real chance of Matthews/Kennedy becoming the second row partnership by the end of the season, with Kennedy's international and Heineken experience being a great foil for Matthew's bulk. As great as Robson is, you'd hope that Matthews could kick on ahead of him at some point.

[beshocked]

As long as Quins gain some sort of parity at scrum time surely it shouldn't matter?

Quins' game is not built around having a powerful scrum.

Yappysnap having a high error count is a far worse problem in my opinion.

Rugby is quite a simple game actually. Just do the basics well and more often than not you'll win.

Be clinical with try scoring opportunities.

[Poorfour]

Beshocked, Quins have a high error count because of the type of game they play. A high tempo, handling and offloading game is inevitably going to result in more errors than a game based on kicking for territory, and COS is clear that he's happy to accept that as the price of having an attack based game.

How successful that is will depend on how good the squad is at reducing those errors by being in the right place at the right time, particularly in defence, and in their ability to adapt to different refereeing interpretations and the big power games. Most of our losses last year came from defensive lapses in tight games where we couldn't get our attack going, or from just being overpowered by a team who could match our intensity and were allowed to slow the ball down at the breakdown.

[yappysnap]

I'd also say last year our basic catching and passing was not as good as the year before. Beshockeds right its a simple game and we were failing at the basics which then made our gameplan even riskier.

[logansrun38]

Beshocked, Quins have a high error count because they are not very good. In fact, some of basic skills of the First XV were utter sh1t last year. If CoS had any idea what he doing he would have addressed that. The IRFU call can't come some enough.

[ChequeredJersey]

If we can get to 4th playing like Poopie then imagine what will happen if we actually play to our potential

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Logan's posts are like the reassuring sound of rain on the roof of your house.

Always the same dull sound.

Reminds you that although there is bad stuff out there you are safe and warm.

[logansrun38]

bless, can't handle the truth

[ChequeredJersey]

Not sure why a Leinster fan would feel any pain whatsoever at the thought of Quins being crap. Maybe he just watches rugby?

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4P3pvKmbsg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dq4P3pvKmbsg

[ChequeredJersey]

Didn't know that J Chisholm was Eng U18s captain. What is it about our backrowers and captaincy?

[yappysnap]

Interesting to see who comes through in the backrow over the next few seasons.

Big Mo probably has a couple of seasons left in him
Easter probably has about the same
Guest will probably then be full time at 8
Robshaw will be 6/7
Wallace will then take the other shirt

So that'll leave Trayfoot covering 6
Chisholm to come through at 6(?)
And Jack Clifford to come through at 8

That's a very young backrow. Full of potential though!

[Poorfour]

It's also possible (though I don't know how likely) that if Matthews, Twomey and Merrick develop quickly, Robson could go back to 6, which is where he played a lot of his age grade rugby, IIRC. Certainly, when he first broke into the team Deano's view was that his long term future was at 6... but then we had a string of locks who didn't work out (Geo Cronje, anyone?) and the emergence of a back row group comprising Fa'asavalu, Guest, Skinner, Easter, Robshaw and now Wallace.

As I said, I don't know how likely it is, but GR would certainly add some heft, which we might need with Guest taking over from Easter at 8, and would give an option for some interesting lineout tactics. With a back five of, say, Matthews, Kennedy, Robson, Robshaw and Guest, you'd expect to lose very few of your own lineouts and you'd have plenty of options to attack the opposition's throw.

[yappysnap]

That would be a big call! Not sure if I see it myself but he'd make an interesting tactical choice as you say. Would we ever need that many lineout options though? Surely a more physical 6 would be far more useful, especially if Guest was at 8.

[Poorfour]

GR's not exactly lightweight, though - at 6'5" and well over 100kgs he's big by back row standards (if a little short for a modern lock). He's not quite a wrecking ball like Mo (when he's on form) but in a physical game I would probably favour a Robshaw/Robson/Guest combination over Wallace/Robshaw/Guest.

Anyway, no idea if it would ever happen, but it would be interesting to know if COS has considered it.

[ChequeredJersey]

Apparently OLH out till November. With Chis out too, I am worried

[ChequeredJersey]

Charlie W at Fullback

[ChequeredJersey]

?

[yappysnap]

I would love to see Charlie at fb. I guess the starting back three will be Monye, Brown, Williams and then he could get the 23 shirt as he's a little more flexible than Sam Smith.

What's happened to Chis?

[ChequeredJersey]

Hurt his knee early on, controversial number of injuries in our Round

[yappysnap]

Really? Makes you wonder if the 7s are really worth it

[ChequeredJersey]

They are I reckon. Just unlucky that 2 guys, both having injuries before, in the same position got hurt. Hope they come back hungry and Chis doesn't take as long to recover as he did after his break because both are very exciting players

[yappysnap]

Personally I don't think they are, I'd much rather have Chis and OLH right from the start and injury free.

[yappysnap]

Team to play Racing Metro is up:

1. Mark Lambert
2. Joe Gray
3. Will Collier
4. Sam Twomey
5. George Robson
6. Tom Guest
7. Chris Robshaw (captain)
8. Nick Easter

9. Karl Dickson
10. Nick Evans
11. Ugo Monye
12. Jordan Turner-Hall
13. George Lowe
14. Sam Smith
15. Ben Botica

I guess Botica has to play 15 due to the Chis and OLH injuries. Otherwise it's a good looking side, as always results are so important it's more about getting the gameplan down.

[ChequeredJersey]

Racing are reportedly playing Lydiate. Wonder if Chris will feel he has a point to prove...

[bluestonevedder]

Is this just a pre-season friendly?

[ChequeredJersey]

Yep

[bluestonevedder]

Good looking Harlequins team considering then! Should be a decent run out for Robshaw especially if Lydiate is playing. Not seen much of Sam Twomey, but a quick google possibly makes the second row look a little light?

I'm excited to see how Lowe goes, but would rather he was playing outside Casson to be honest.

[ChequeredJersey]

Think they are trying Twomey out as we need to know who in the academy can step up

[yappysnap]

Yea Twomey does need a run out, may as well be now as any of the others.

[bluestonevedder]

You boys seen much of him before?

[whocares]

game is live free on http://www.lequipe21.fr/

not sure if it work outside france though (unless you have a proxy here).

[Cumbrian]

It is blocked, but you can get it elsewhere.

[ChequeredJersey]

I see we lost 40-28 in what seems to have been an exciting match. Started very well, scrum went well but struggled with Metro's power especially mauling and countering mauls and especially in the 2nd half. It was however frankly a B team vs what looks like an almost full strength side so I am happy with that and confident as long as we build on the lessons learnt today

[logansrun38]

Quins were rubbish. Pathetic performace and nearly as gutless as the 7's they've just lost tonight.
Can't wait for the excuses.

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