A Real Man

A real man admits his mistakes. As far as the last test went, I will admit that I wrote Sean O'Brien off as an open-side. I thought he could carry and tackle but nothing else. I was wrong. That is one of my many misconceptions this tour, who would care to admit their own?

 I bet you even have brown sauce on your bacon sarnys 'Osp

I will admit I did not rate Connor Murray at all going into this tour and although I did not post it on here I seriously criticised his inclusion however he has proved me wrong and although seriously overlooked when he came on in the tests he played very very well

 Parling had a great game and I gave him stick all week - Well done Geoff; some great hits - Pass the HP !!!!!!

GavinDragon wrote:I will admit I did not rate Connor Murray at all going into this tour and although I did not post it on here I seriously criticised his inclusion however he has proved me wrong and although seriously overlooked when he came on in the tests he played very very well

 +1 

I'll admit that Gats is a better coach than I thought. Made big calls in the face of adversity despite the unpopularity. Dropping BOD was not about saying he wasnt good enough, it was about getting as much continuity from the combinations that he knew worked well in the past, increasing the likelihood of them working when needed.

There was a time Ruby that i would only have ketchup, after this tour, i'm willing to go as far as reggae reggae.

Hmm quite a few things...

I thought Conor Murray and Owen Farrell were bums prior to the tour but both really impressed me at times.

Heaslip proved he isn't done as a top player and Croft isn't the hype job I thought he was.

Never thought Lydiate would be fit enough to tour, let alone start two of the Tests. Thought that they'd taken the wrong England lock on tour, but have to admit that Parling has played to a consistently high level on this trip. Thought that Best would be the hooker, even thought he would captain the side back in February (!), and now he has an extremely worrying slump in form to arrest when he gets home.

Didn't realise quite how good Halfpenny was, thought Hogg would at least make the bench, couldn't understand what people saw in Vunipola and like Taylorman, underestimated Gatland's courage as a coach.

Actually, I was wrong about most things. Apart from the selection of Stevens.

My turn. I once shaved an ostrich using a Mach 3 and then made and peanut butter and jam sandwich. Blackcurrant jam, because any other jam would be the most preposterous part of my story.

I was wrong about corbisero. I honestly, hand on heart thought Grant was the next obvious choice. But corbisero played very very well, in scum and loose. Grant did his bit in midweek games, but never really got a proper shot, so it's hard to say which of the two players is 'better' I'd just be happy to admit that both are very good and worthy of going on the tour.

I was wrong about lydiate. I did not expect him to do much but he thrived on the tour. Wether it was his talent or the familiarity of it all, who knows, but he played very well.

I was wrong about north. I thought visser would have been a better choice pre tour. He may well have been a good choice, you never know, but north raised his game big time on tour and looked unstoppable. Back to his original form.

I think what surprised me most, was how well some players performed coming back from long term injury. Just goes to show, that really doesn't mean didddly squat. If they're talented, they'll slot straight back in pretty quickly.

I was quite wrong when I thought the girl in the bar on Wednesday night didn't look like her grandmother.

I was wrong before the tour when I thought AWJ was overrated and not a Lions test quality lock. I was wrong when I thought Farrell was a one dimensional kicking 10 who couldn't play an open game. I was wrong when I thought Davies didn't have enough of a well rounded game to be a top 13. With regards to Halfpenny, I think a lot of people saw him as just the kicker, won't do anything wrong but won't be too flashy. He has really made a name for himself. If he stays grounded and is lucky with injuries he will have a long and fruitful career.

Although Welsh through and through, Corbisero was superb. I did not rate Hibbard much but again punishing tackles and but his body on the line a number of times. As for Gatland, I had every faith in him, if he can get the world cup with either the Welsh or AB's his record and CV will read better than Ted's.

I did think we had buggered it at half time mind, but happy to have been proven wrong in such a brilliant fashion.

I was way off on Parling.....he did fantastic today. Same on Hibbard.

But I stand firm in my belief that BOD would done at least as well as JD in the last test if he too had a dominate scrumm in front of it. But my hat is off to JD he took his chance and performed with class!

Davies did well yesterday and that's all he can do... Any back in his situation had no excuse not to perform given the platform they were given... With that sort of forwards dominance I think even brad barritt would have looked impressive had he been out there in attack. it wasn't the key battle in the game

gatland deserves his plaudits, he's done what many have tried, but only few have succeeded in. He did what nearly every pundit (bar SCW interestingly) said not to do so fair dos.... But that's why he's the coach, and we ain't.

Yes fair credit to Gatland. I'll never like his style, man management or style of play...BUT he has brought / lead us to a series victory! So for that I am thankful while hopefull he leaves e NH sooner rather than later

Why would you like him to leave? Is this just a personal dislike?

I guess it comes down to a personal distaste for me Taffy....he just grates on me...he's successful but in a fashion I personally find negative....so if Wales has a homegrown successor all the better so Gats can head back to the SH

I can understand that his style is abrasive towards the opposition. It's like the Fergie effect though, Man U fans love him whilst others do respect him but perhaps don't like him.

Spot on Taffy.....great comparison!

Last Wednesday I posted this...

"I actually quite like this team, but overall I believe Gatland has made a fine mess of things. Let's be honest this is not a vintage Aussie team and the rugby they have played so far supports this. If we lose this series it will be a real missed opportunity.

We have missed out on the advantages of continuity as the selection changes come and go. Whilst injuries cannot be accounted for there are have too many other selections smacking of indecision.

We have paid the price for not selecting a 2nd inside centre and we should not have had to coble a midfield pairing like we had to in the 2nd test.

Having said all that it is time to support the team and pray for a series victory. The plus points are:
- front row is stronger in scrummaging terms and could force some penalties
- SOB and Faletau are fine players and should go well
- Phillips is rested and can really have a proper go. I expect a big performance which will restore his reputation.
- Roberts and Davis are a proven mid-field pairing and Davis entirely justifies his selection ahead of BOD, but it is a close call. I like the option of having Tuilagi on the bench as it certainly adds significant firepower if needed.
- I like having Gray on the bench and just hope that Gats gets him on!

My main concern is the combination of Youngs and Vunipola coming on together and leaking penalties in the scrum. At least if Gray is packing down with AWJ they will have some power behind them.

My other concern is the lineout and of course we need Hibbard and the lineout to function well.

Let us do play the game the right way. That means in the Aussie half. If we get dragged into a 7's style open affair we will lose. With the pack selected we can pressure them up front but we really need to kick and chase well and then unleash the power backs and good off-loading in their half. Play it in the right areas. We need an effective maul to suck them in and a bit of structure to the game. We can and should get a win and then the injustice of Horwill won't matter.

Come on the Lions."

I underestimated Connor Murray like a few others. He looks a very fine player. I was also concerned that Parling was too lightweight, but did think we could afford to carry him as the overall pack looked stronger. Someone called me daft for selecting Hibbard in my starting team, but attacking their scrum was a good call. That takes nothing away from Tom who made a great impact when he came on.

It is the old age thing in rugby....lay the foundations and the majority of the time you will win. An outstanding forward platform was laid and finally the backs came good in the second half. Excellent effort, but we should have replicated this performance in all 3 tests. The 2nd test selections really undermined us, but at least lessons were learnt and with some players returning from injury we showed our true colours. It would have been the icing on the cake to have BOD come on as a sub, but at the same time it was nice for Manu and some others to at least get on the pitch.

Congrats to Gats and the whole coaching team.

Happy days!  

I thought Connor Murray was overrated and didnt belong on the tour ahead of other scrum halfs, but in my opinion he has been the best on tour.

 But most of all I was right

 

I was wrong once ......1978 I think it was.

 That's twice Doc - It was 1979

I thought Gatland had completely bottled it by selecting Roberts over Tuilagi. I still think Tuilagi would have done very well, but Roberts didn't have anything close to the nightmare game I was half-expecting after his injury and a couple of anonymous warm-up games.

A player who ain't Irish who impressed me most?  Is that what this thread has developed into?

A player who I feel was treated as.................. unfairly (to be euphemistic about it!).... as BOD Almighty, Blessing Be Upon His Holy Name - or in Glamorganalun's opinion, the clapped out Irish guy.  

His name is Cuthbert.  He didn't deserve to lose his 2nd test spot, and he didn't deserve to miss the third installment either.

 Cuthberts response shows great maturity - he has been on great try scoring form ripping through defences with his power and pace

I was wrong about Owen Farrell- a poor start to the tour but very impressive in his last few outings. I was also wrong to underestimate the leadership in the team named for the third test. Having lost POC and Warburton I simply didn't think we could afford to drop BOD for his Captaincy as much as anything else- but then, his leadership might have been needed in a tighter game who can say?

I also guessed the wrong team in all of the threads naming the Lions Test XV between 2009 and 2013

 And the rest Notch

I will admit that I never thought lions fans would be so brittle And splinter so dramatically.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I will admit that I never thought lions fans would be so brittle And splinter so dramatically.

Well, if the Lions win a series, there's just gotta be something they fail at.

So...let me see:  

First test- Lions lose.  Horwill should'a been banned is a tactical error that backfires.  Proven to be a whinging pom stunt.
Second test - Lion's lose.  They still want Horwill banned even though he was proven innocent and have hired the IRB to help them.
Third test - Lions are totally destroyed by silly in-fighting and idiotic facebook campaigns. A brittle team cracks under pressure.  

Lions fans lose the series.  A 3-0 whitewash by a very disciplined Wallaby fanbase.

Congrats.

Farrell has the capacity to play attacking and creative rugby, though whether or not his current coaching set ups allow him to do so remains to be seen.

Parling is a quality lock

that is all

GloriousEmpire wrote:I will admit that I never thought lions fans would be so brittle And splinter so dramatically.

Nor did I. I just hope that all those petty minded bigots (I have had to restrain myself from using the R word though in truth it is little less) are equally outraged when 10 Englishmen are selected for the tests in NZ in four years time. This is not out of the question as they have a great number of very good young players both backs and forwards.

However sadly I doubt it. I see very little evidence of acrimonious division among those touring and sincerely hope that it is in fact just limited to the imaginary world of the forum where frankly any moron can spout ill informed Love sacks

I was wrong about Jonathan Davies- I didn't think he deserved his final test place because I didn't think his game was well rounded enough. He proved me wrong.

Hibbard over Youngs to start was a good shout.

Connor Murray was the most impressive SH on tour, but I didn't really rate him before.

Shane Williams still has a nose for the line?!

GavinDragon wrote:I will admit I did not rate Connor Murray at all going into this tour and although I did not post it on here I seriously criticised his inclusion however he has proved me wrong and although seriously overlooked when he came on in the tests he played very very well

He did alright but it helps that the other two guys were quite off form, particularly Philips who was surprisingly bad.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Although Welsh through and through, Corbisero was superb.

He was superb, but he's certainly not Welsh through and though.

I gave Phillips a lot of stick and singled him out on a number of occasions, and I was right.

Scrumpy wrote:I gave Phillips a lot of stick and singled him out on a number of occasions, and I was right.

That's not really understanding the spirit of the thread though  


I didn't believe the Lions had a performance like Saturday's in them, and duly expected another tight, error-ridden match ultimately decided by one or 2 more plays.

I also expected Poite to make more than a token attempt to police the breakdown - both sides were lying all over the ball.

Full credit to Gatland. He picked his favourites and they delivered for him.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:I gave Phillips a lot of stick and singled him out on a number of occasions, and I was right.

That's not really understanding the spirit of the thread though  


I didn't believe the Lions had a performance like Saturday's in them, and dully expected another tight, error-ridden match ultimately decided by one or 2 more plays.

I also expected Poite to make more than a token attempt to police the breakdown - both sides were lying all over the ball.

Why not though?  

That game was always there to be put on display, had Gatland wanted to or chosen to.  I think he was saving it for a 'rainy day' and the rainy day came when Australia sqeezed the win in the 2nd test.  

I have a feeling Australia were always going to get a taste of GatlanGunBall at full tilt in the final game anyway, even if the series had been wrapped up in the two close fought first tests.  
This afterall is the Welsh coach, the majority of the Lions side were the players he hopes to have at his disposal for an important Pool encounter with Australia during the next WC.  Of course he was going to use it to once again test his plan out on a resiliant Aussie side.  He'll be happy at that result for the Lions, yes... but only a fool wouldn't deduce that he'll also be content with the result for his Welsh contingent.  The psychological battle begins on another competition... he's a fast moving coach.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:I gave Phillips a lot of stick and singled him out on a number of occasions, and I was right.

That's not really understanding the spirit of the thread though  


I didn't believe the Lions had a performance like Saturday's in them, and dully expected another tight, error-ridden match ultimately decided by one or 2 more plays.

I also expected Poite to make more than a token attempt to police the breakdown - both sides were lying all over the ball.

Your right Pete,

I also gave Warbs a grilling but he was beginning to win me round, in the end I feared we would struggle without him, how wrong was I!

Scrumpy wrote:I gave Phillips a lot of stick and singled him out on a number of occasions, and I was right.

Still gave the scoring pass and created the first try though.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:I will admit I did not rate Connor Murray at all going into this tour and although I did not post it on here I seriously criticised his inclusion however he has proved me wrong and although seriously overlooked when he came on in the tests he played very very well

 +1 

+ 2
his quick flip to put Roberts in was sheer class

I'm perfect.
I thought I made a mistake once. But then I found out I hadn't.

nganboy wrote:I'm perfect.
I thought I made a mistake once. But then I found out I hadn't.

So isnt mistaking a mistake for a mistake a mistake? Or am I mistaken?

Taylorman wrote:

nganboy wrote:I'm perfect.
I thought I made a mistake once. But then I found out I hadn't.

So isnt mistaking a mistake for a mistake a mistake? Or am I mistaken?

the first rule of making a mistake, don't admit it.
The second rule of making a mistake, don't get caught.
Third rule of making a mistake, plausible deniability.
Fourth rule of making a mistake, have a scapegoat ready.
Fifth rule of making a mistake, ignore it, it might go away.

i always backed gats but on the third test ten minutes after second half after conceding two penalty i thought we was going to lose i was mistaken  

"We were wrong to say Lydiate and Warburton are shoite in spite of them outplaying Ireland's back-row every chance they have had. The tests were a big dose of reality for us because each of them played incredibly well and were fundamental to the Lions series win.

Yours sincerely, the Irish."

I guess we can all dream huh.