Would the 2005 Lions have beaten the 2013 Aussies?

Would the 2005 Lions have beaten the 2013 Aussies?

Whilst I accept that the 2005 Lions were not to everyone’s cup of tea, I’d still think they would have beaten the 2013 Aussies over a 3 game series. It was just very unfortunate that the 05 Lions were up against the All Blacks, thank god the 2013 Lions were not!

Do you agree?

2005 Lions

John Hayes
Gethin Jenkins
Graham Rowntree
Andrew Sheridan
Matt Stevens
Julian White
Gordon Bulloch
Shane Byrne
Steve Thompson
Andy Titterrell
Danny Grewcock
Ben Kay
Donncha O'Callaghan
Paul O'Connell
Malcolm O'Kelly
Neil Back
Martin Corry
Lawrence Dallaglio
Richard Hill
Lewis Moody
Michael Owen
Simon Taylor
Martyn Williams
Iain Balshaw
Geordan Murphy
Josh Lewsey
Gareth Thomas
Shane Horgan
Denis Hickie
Jason Robinson
Shane Williams
Gordon D'Arcy
Will Greenwood
Gavin Henson
Brian O'Driscoll
Tom Shanklin
Ollie Smith
Charlie Hodgson
Stephen Jones
Ronan O'Gara
Gareth Cooper
Chris Cusiter
Matt Dawson
Dwayne Peel
Jonny Wilkinson
Mark Cueto
Simon Shaw
Simon Easterby
Ryan Jones
Brent Cockbain
Jason White


Good squad of players

Given SCW's selections odds are they'd have lost 2-1. Too many has-beens went on that tour. There'd be 1 match where the Aussie scrum disintegrated to give the 05 Lions a win, Aussies comfortably in the other 2.

Might as well ask whether the 2005 Lions would have won more series if they could transport in time to play every Lions series.

Bil I could have asked that but the 2005 Lions still come in for a lot of stick as does SCW, I just don't think they were as bad as people make out and if we had been playing a weaker team like the 2013 Aussies I think they too would have won.

What do you think?

Well the 2005 Lions were unable to beat Argentina, so I say no.

Blimey, that's a big squad.

Strange that nobody has mentioned it before...

Cyril wrote:Blimey, that's a big squad.

Strange that nobody has mentioned it before...

I was about to joke that each of the 4 home nations' sides in 2005 would probably have beaten the 2005 Lions, but Eng/Ire/Sco/Wal wouldn't have had any 1st choice players available as they'd all have been in another town training for the Lions' midweek game 

Cyril wrote:Blimey, that's a big squad.

Strange that nobody has mentioned it before...

Imagine the bar bill!  

You could ask if this class would have beaten NZ in 05? The answer would almost certainly have been no and 3-0 too.

Fully fit, the 05 would have pushed this AUS side all they way

Jenkins, Thompson, Vickery, O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Jones, Moody, Dillaglio, Peel, Wilkinson, Williams, Henson, O'Driscoll, Robinson, Lewsey.

Had SCW had a full strength, fully fit side his team would have got respectable results vs. the ABs and may have even sneaked a game.

That backline is arguably superior to the one the Lions pushed out and its one mean pack.

Injuries have massive impacts though... without Corbisiero I wonder if the Lions would have got over the line. With Healy already out, Vunipola wouldn't have offered the same power and AUS wouldn't have gone 19-3 down in the first half. W

The 2005 dirt trackers were better than the test side on this tour.

Scrumpy wrote:Bil I could have asked that but the 2005 Lions still come in for a lot of stick as does SCW, I just don't think they were as bad as people make out and if we had been playing a weaker team like the 2013 Aussies I think they too would have won.

What do you think?

Yeah, Scrumpy, it is hard to play predict what if. Would the Aussies of 2013 have been stronger with Ioane, Pocock, Cooper and Higginbotham? Would the Aussies have won the first test if they kicked 14 points available that they lost?

It is a subjective thing to compare teams, there are simply too many variables.

It has been a very very, erm, inconsistent series???

The first game was fantastic. Both teams going at it with only Oz not having a kicker being the decider!

The second game was more attritional with an arm wrestle of a match being decided by fine margins.

The third game was perhaps one of the worst Oz displays I've ever seen. Had the Ozzies taken the kicks at goal in the first half, they would have been up at half time and then who knows. Good play from the lions, with even 1/2p providing scoring passes, combined with the oz heads going right down, turned the 2nd half into a rout!

Would the 05 lions have won the series? I dunno. Would they have won the last game? I think pretty much so!

I would say no to that.

tiger, on the performance of this last test the Aussies would pretty much have lost to anyone of the top 10 teams.

Ok, maybe top 8 teams.

Will be intersting to see how AUS go in the RC... can McKenzie turn it around? Cooper will get that backline organised but can they live with the upfront muscle that ARG, SA and NZ will undoubtedly bring?

I don't know. More big names in 05 but then plenty of players who toured this year are too young to have made a real name for themselves yet. And it must be taken into account how unfit or past their best some of the 05 squad were.

Scrumpy wrote:Bil I could have asked that but the 2005 Lions still come in for a lot of stick as does SCW, I just don't think they were as bad as people make out and if we had been playing a weaker team like the 2013 Aussies I think they too would have won.

What do you think?

No it was a disjointed circus of a tour. People may be unhappy with Gatland but compared to Poopie for Brains Woodward the man is Geech, Carwyn, Sid Miller all rolled up into one.

The players may have been good enough as individuals but they had no plan A let alone plan B, so as a group they would not have had enough cohesion to beat anyone.

Had Wilkinson and Dillaglio been fully fit and had O'Driscoll not been taken out Michael Corleone style I think the results would have been very different. Still would have lost but they would have been respectable and may have even been able to pinch a test match.

NZ is notoriously difficult to tour. The 93 tour was close but the camp morale was dire and the respect Geechs and Hastings got from the players was near zero.

With or without BoD?