what we want to see from the irish team and players this coming season

There are i suppose 3 areas (if you feel more let me know)

1 Management
I think we are all excited about Schmidt but i think the whole management team needs to show that they can bring a joined up thinking and balance to the team.
I think by Aus we would hope that Ireland will do as well as Wales did last year but i would expect one win.

2 Team
I think we are close but i want to see two international standard players (or as close as we can) in each position, and probably 3 for each front row and half backs.  But i also want them to slot in seamlessly.  They should be able to do this as generally the training camps are for this reason.

3 Players
There are many players that we have high hopes for.  Here are just a few of mine but there are loads to mention.
Henshaw and Marmion - i would like them to shine a bit more in the HC stage
JJ and Archer - get more time in the big games for Munster.
Madigan and Jackson - would like to see of them get a sizeable amount of game time in the AIs and 6N.  I know its horrible to say but if sexton was not avaible for the 6N it would give these two players a good run.  I also want to see them take a big role in dictating their team's play.

Why are you excited about Smit? He retired from SA rugby a while back...

Schmidt?

Guys, it was only a Mshtake.

My wish list:

I would like to see a Luke Fitzgerald renaissance.
POM (Ireland's Spies) to live up to the hype for once or get dropped.
Murray to continue to improve on his Lions form and improve his passing.
The Irish medical staff and managment to come up with ways to reduce injuries.
Massive improvement on dicipline.
Less predictable.
More savvy and crafty.
A tactical revolution - this will aslo help reduce injuries.
A return to quality back play.
A big season for Conway at Munster.
Win 6 nations and all AI matches - a season grand slam if you like.

Mostly what I don't want to see is one absolute humdinger of a forceful, attacking, belligerent, 80 minute game of total ruthlessness and then five or six "well on our day we might have" games.

Consistency - consistency - consistency. No excuses. No "well if that player wasn't injured" or "we just didn't click". I'm bored with excuses. We're either good enough to compete with the best in Europe (at least) or we're not. We are or we aren't. The players have run out of excuses. They'll have a new fresh (kinda!) coaching team, they'll have enough to motivate them with the approaching WC, they'll have a coach who can coach the kind of game we all say the players can play. Let the players now prove our belief in them.

Consistency. That doesn't mean winning from the get go. It means starting at a certain performance level and bit by bit improving on it. No heroic one-offs...just a steady ship where fans can see growth happening and feel confident that the graph is going upwards.

A ban on provincial jerseys in Landsdowne or Thomond on International match day.

As long as Scotland win the 6 Nations fixture at the Aviva to make it back to back wins against our celtic brethren, knock yourselves out!

I think the big task for Ireland this season is to sort the centre combination. D'Arcy and BOD need to be replaced - finding the right replacement combination is Schmidt's first up task in my view. I thought Luke Marshall showed up well last season at 12, and Madigan also has potential to play both 10 and 12. Question is 13 - Cave? Fitzgerald? Bowe? Trimble? Earls? Plenty options, Schmidt just needs to find the right one.

http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/sport/rugby/articles/2010/08/04/3998996-backs-to-the-future-for-joe-schmidt/print

Nice article in my local paper about Joe's return to his old club (and mine) Mullingar a couple of years ago. Interesting that at the time not too many Irish people had heard of him. We all know who he is now. Love the photo!

I think this coming season is our last chance to have a 30 man team. I don't want to hear "we'll do fine in the WRC as long as play X can stay fit".

Also people need to be dropped if not preforming. One or two bad games is fine but they then can't have good game and be fine for another long spell.

I think that if we give people chances they will do fine. For ages it wad POC DOC but the other secondrows did fine when given a chance.

Also if you're not number one for your provience you don't get a look in unless you cover lots of positions. Earls might get caught by this but there are others who can cover his positions.

Any chance the wolfhounds can be used more

GunsGerms wrote:A ban on provincial jerseys in Landsdowne or Thomond on International match day.

I'd be quite happy if so called supporters stopped having digs at any Munster player who put his hand above the parapet.
(You realise the only players you had a dig at are Munster players  )

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:A ban on provincial jerseys in Landsdowne or Thomond on International match day.

I'd be quite happy  if so called supporters stopped having digs at any Munster player who put his hand above the parapet.
(You realise the only players you had a dig at are Munster players  )

Does Luke Fitz play for Munster? I know Conway will but until now he was a Leinster man. Both need to show some form or will be sent to the scrap heap (the Aviva Premiership).

Feeling precious today Sin?

Saying that you hope Luke Fitz, who has been injured for the last 2/3 seasons should have a renaissance is not really having a dig at a player.

Saying that POM should match the hype and Murray speed up his pass is having unnecessary digs at them.  POM was the standout player in the States and Murray ended up being the best scrumhalf on the Lions.

And I'm not being precious - I'm pointing out the irony of you saying that the supporters should get behind team Ireland (by forgetting their provincial allegiences) and then you proceed to have a go at two of our best young players.  

Sin é wrote:Saying that you hope Luke Fitz, who has been injured for the last 2/3 seasons should have a renaissance is not really having a dig at a player.

Saying that POM should match the hype and Murray speed up his pass is having unnecessary digs at them.  POM was the standout player in the States and Murray ended up being the best scrumhalf on the Lions.

The only player I really had a dig at was POM, deservedly so. No idea why he is so highly rated. I just dont get it sorry.

Murray has improved but he still needs to speed things up at the breakdown. Im sure Schmidt will get the best out of him. Murray was the best scrum half but lets not forget Philips was apauling and Youngs off form.

Fitz and Conway have been disapointing if you look at their careers as a whole to date hence their inclusion. The difference with these two is they arent in the team so I want them to improve to put pressure on the guys in the team. Do you really need me to slate a Leinster player to balance things if I want to slate a Munster man?

As consistency may already have been mentioned, I'd add that I'd like to see the players summing up what they see in front of them and playing accordingly, rather than doing it by numbers, so to speak.

The first half in Cardiff should be the template, rather than the exception.

Would like to see if Archer has what it takes at international level sooner rather than later. Would like POC to have a two-year run without injuries, while the next great Irish lock waits in the wings to announce himself. Would like to impose a fine of at least five figures on any pundit or journalist who places the words 'golden' and 'generation' in the same sentence when referring to Irish rugby. Finally, would like second-half international performances to come within hailing distance of the quality of the first for a change, since that was apparently impossible last season.

Oh, and a 6N title would be very nice too.

I don't think you need to slate anyone. Its kind of strange that no other provincial player needs to improve.

No mention of Madigan needing to improve his game management or Jamie Heaslip to get off his arse for a change when playing for Ireland, Luke Marshall needs to learn how to tackle without getting knocked-out, Henderson needs to get a few more opportunities with Ulster, Gilroy to get a look-in, etc. etc, but no - you have a go at POM & Murray, two of our best young players.

Sin é wrote:I don't think you need to slate anyone. Its kind of strange that no other provincial player needs to improve.

No mention of Madigan needing to improve his game management or Jamie Heaslip to get off his arse for a change when playing for Ireland, Luke Marshall needs to learn how to tackle without getting knocked-out, Henderson needs to get a few more opportunities with Ulster, Gilroy to get a look-in, etc. etc, but no - you have a go at POM & Murray, two of our best young players.

These are just the main requests Sin. I could write a thesis on it if you like.

I dont think POM is one of our best young players sorry. Just dont rate him. Lots will disagree with me but I think he is very ineffective.

Murray is currently our only option at 9 so he needs to take his chance and really improve. 9 is a key player.

Madigan has steadily been on an upward curve.

Heaslip needs to improve but again there isnt really anyone putting him under pressure. He hasnt been as bad as some think.

Marshall is also on an upward curve IMO as is Gilroy.

Henderson is a real prospect. I hope he gets picked ahead of POM.

Best really needs to sort his throwing out. You forgot about him.

I didn't make a statement about what jerseys should be worn to matches and then go and pick on two Leinster players!

What I would really wish for is that Brian O'Driscoll has a good outing in the AIs (with a win over NZ) and then retire himself from international rugby before someone else has to do it for him.

I'd also hope that Paul O'Connell will stay fit for the next 2 years.

Other than that, I would hope all players continue to improve and that they sort out their mostly small weaknesses.

I'd also like to see Tomas O'Leary back in the Ireland squad as he would be a better option than what is available - hopefully he recovers well from his back operation.

GunsGerms wrote:Best really needs to sort his throwing out. You forgot about him.

With Paul O'Connell running the lineout, it will probably improve anyway. Mike Sherry is probably the best thrower of the ball of those available - it will be interesting to see if he will get a look in.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Best really needs to sort his throwing out. You forgot about him.

With Paul O'Connell running the lineout, it will probably improve anyway. Mike Sherry is probably the best thrower of the ball of those available - it will be interesting to see if he will get a look in.

Very true re POC and interesting that Best didnt really get the chance to play with him on the Lions if I remember correctly.

Best is still ahead of Strauss, Cronin and Sherry. All he needs to do is lock himself into his barn for a few days and he will be fine.

It really has to start with the provinces this year, would be great to see Jackson kicking more and taking more responsibility in Ulster team, henderson really pushing on in either lock or back row.
i WOULD LIke to see the centre future sorted out this year too and by that I mean a replacement for BOD brought in because we have a number of options at Inside centre but few at outside that are proven so someone needs to get gametime there.

GunsGerms wrote:
The only player I really had a dig at was POM, deservedly so. No idea why he is so highly rated. I just dont get it sorry.

How about workrate, lineout ability, leadership, ball carrying, speed, aggression, excellent handling and passing skills, the ability to play in 3 positions in the backrow. He is good to excellent in all those departments.


He was obviously told to play different roles for Ireland. He was the wide ball carrier in some games while in others he played more of a traditional blindside role. Against France for example he had a good game and more than matched the French backrow. For Munster he is always a man of the match contender in big games. Its a joke that people are actually questioning him at this stage especially given his age.

1) for Ireland to not look retarded when we have the ball. I'd like to have every player being able to attack, run lines, make passes and good decisions, appreciate space a la France, new Zealand.

2) for Henderson to get some time at lock (I believe that is where his future is)

3) for our front 5 to be a bit more dynamic and be able to "play rugby" as opposed to just hit things

4) for Murray to facilitate sexton standing flatter and therefore getting our backs moving better and attacking with more pace, power, guile and venom.

5) for zebo to get some gametime at 15 as I think he is potentially considerably better than Kearney

6) for a "worker" to join sob and heaslip in the backrow, I'm thinking one of Henry or McLaughlin

7) for Marshall to get some more valuable gametime with o'driscoll

8) for "horses for courses" selections to be made based on opposition strengths and weaknesses

9) for best to sort himself out

10) for Ireland to learn what ruthless means and how to affect it in a rugby game

11) for Trimble to be used in a way that fits his style (could be very effective under Joe)

12) for the scrum to continue to improve

13) Fitzgerald, ferris and earls to sort themselves out and start delivering (for different reasons)

14) for guys like toner, archer, kilcoyne, Henderson, madigan, Conway, McLaughlin, olding to kick on from where they finished last season.

15) for Irish supporters to learn how to sing

16) for provincialism to die the wretched death it deserves

17) for the irfu to use it's funds wisely be it in development of coaching/supporter base etc

18) for Connacht to have a very positive season of growth

19) for more Irish players to return to Irish provinces in the 14/15 season (Morris, hagan, tol, etc)

profitius wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
The only player I really had a dig at was POM, deservedly so. No idea why he is so highly rated. I just dont get it sorry.

How about workrate, lineout ability, leadership, ball carrying, speed, aggression, excellent handling and passing skills, the ability to play in 3 positions in the backrow. He is good to excellent in all those departments.


He was obviously told to play different roles for Ireland. He was the wide ball carrier in some games while in others he played more of a traditional blindside role. Against France for example he had a good game and more than matched the French backrow. For Munster he is always a man of the match contender in big games. Its a joke that people are actually questioning him at this stage especially given his age.

Profitius I agree that he has lots of qualities but a bit like Luke Fitz if the sum of all parts adds up to a player that isnt particularly effective then they shouldnt be picked. Its all very well putting in a massive effort and hence putting yourself forward for a MOTM award but if you consistently get dominated by your opposite numbers which he consistently does then something isnt right.

He isnt a patch on some of the former great backrowers at Munster, Wallace, Quinlan and Foley for example.

I'd like to see President Higgins appear before every game dressed as Bilbo Baggins.

Also want to see a worthy replacement for Keith Wood as the Talisman.

More use of the phrase "the little people" in all interviews when a Leinster player refers to anyone from Munster.

Apologies for the above.

Lunchtime.

Bored.

Metal Tiger wrote:I'd like to see President Higgins appear before every game dressed as Bilbo Baggins.

Also want to see a worthy replacement for Keith Wood as the Talisman.

More use of the phrase "the little people" in all interviews when a Leinster player refers to anyone from Munster.

I thought he already did dress like Bilbo Baggins.

Other names for Munster:
Leinster B
the unwashed
etc.

Any opinions on Robbie Henshaw? From what I saw last season I think he was a bit rushed getting capped and we might not see him again in an Ireland jersey for a few years. If he switches to 13 then thats a different story. For my money Shane Leydan could be the fullback to watch in Connacht.

GunsGerms wrote:

profitius wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
The only player I really had a dig at was POM, deservedly so. No idea why he is so highly rated. I just dont get it sorry.

How about workrate, lineout ability, leadership, ball carrying, speed, aggression, excellent handling and passing skills, the ability to play in 3 positions in the backrow. He is good to excellent in all those departments.


He was obviously told to play different roles for Ireland. He was the wide ball carrier in some games while in others he played more of a traditional blindside role. Against France for example he had a good game and more than matched the French backrow. For Munster he is always a man of the match contender in big games. Its a joke that people are actually questioning him at this stage especially given his age.

Profitius I agree that he has lots of qualities but a bit like Luke Fitz if the sum of all parts adds up to a player that isnt particularly effective then they shouldnt be picked. Its all very well putting in a massive effort and hence putting yourself forward for a MOTM award but if you consistently get dominated by your opposite numbers which he consistently does then something isnt right.

He isnt a patch on some of the former great backrowers at Munster, Wallace, Quinlan and Foley for example.

No doubt he has a lot to learn and is inexperienced but he is just 23. Wallace and Quinlan didn't reach their peak until their 30s (can't remember how young Foley was). SOB was about 23 when he got his chance for Leinster. Anyway we'll see how he goes this season. He'll convert the doubters yet!

I agree I'd like to see Zebo at 15 ahead of Kearney. And want Earls on the left wing. Remember he's a lethal finisher on the wing.

profitius wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
The only player I really had a dig at was POM, deservedly so. No idea why he is so highly rated. I just dont get it sorry.

How about workrate, lineout ability, leadership, ball carrying, speed, aggression, excellent handling and passing skills, the ability to play in 3 positions in the backrow. He is good to excellent in all those departments.


He was obviously told to play different roles for Ireland. He was the wide ball carrier in some games while in others he played more of a traditional blindside role. Against France for example he had a good game and more than matched the French backrow. For Munster he is always a man of the match contender in big games. Its a joke that people are actually questioning him at this stage especially given his age.

I think POM is a very talented player, however to be a world class 6 or 8 (which I think he has the natural ability to be) he will need to bulk up so that he can match the physicality of the opposition. He certainly has the aggression and mental edge over his opponents (the guy never takes a step back) but for playing blindside or number 8 you really do need that extra bulk.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I agree I'd like to see Zebo at 15 ahead of Kearney. And want Earls on the left wing. Remember he's a lethal finisher on the wing.

Agree with this, I think Zebo looked very comfortable (and most importantly, very dangerous) at 15.

Dunno about POM needing to bulk up Rory. He is about 17st which is about a stone heavier than Dusautoir and many other players. Chris Henry and SOB are about the same weight. Cian Healy charged towards POM a few months ago, POM caught him and drove him back about 5 yards. You don't see that too often. Pound for pound strength is more important than bulk. Look at the Kiwis. They're big but not overly bulked up.


Ireland have to play to their strengths. Heavier players are less mobile as the Kiwis show when they play the Boks. So its all about balance. There are other players who are not very heavy compared to others, for example Best, Ryan, Heaslip or even Healy. Conor Murray is a good player and offers physicality but his size means he might not be as quick as smaller, more nippy players to the breakdown or getting the ball out. Its all about balance and what the coach wants.


Btw, anyone notice a lot of controversy involving a certain rugby players lately. Stealing car ariels off roofs on holidays and getting a beating from an Irish soldier. Hopefully the rugby authorities won't turn a blind eye to his antics if true.

profitius wrote:Dunno about POM needing to bulk up Rory. He is about 17st which is about a stone heavier than Dusautoir and many other players. Chris Henry and SOB are about the same weight. Cian Healy charged towards POM a few months ago, POM caught him and drove him back about 5 yards. You don't see that too often. Pound for pound strength is more important than bulk. Look at the Kiwis. They're big but not overly bulked up.


Ireland have to play to their strengths. Heavier players are less mobile as the Kiwis show when they play the Boks. So its all about balance. There are other players who are not very heavy compared to others, for example Best, Ryan, Heaslip or even Healy. Conor Murray is a good player and offers physicality but his size means he might not be as quick as smaller, more nippy players to the breakdown or getting the ball out. Its all about balance and what the coach wants.


Btw, anyone notice a lot of controversy involving a certain rugby players lately. Stealing car ariels off roofs on holidays and getting a beating from an Irish soldier. Hopefully the rugby authorities won't turn a blind eye to his antics if true.

I never noticed this, I must have missed it, what has happened?

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/5037127/Rugby-ace-row.html The culprit - a certain flamboyant winger - was in the news again last week.

oh right I see, I'm guessing the fact he isn't named means they can't prove this or indeed it is a pile of rubish. I guess we will see if anyone makes a statement on it or anything is done

neilthom7 wrote:oh right I see, I'm guessing the fact he isn't named means they can't prove this or indeed it is a pile of rubish.  I guess we will see if anyone makes a statement on it or anything is done

No, all it means is that they've done the maths and they don't want to get sued. Truth doesn't come into it either way. Tabloids will gleefully print all manner of lies if they're confident they won't face legal action and will hold back the truth if the legal situation is ominous for them. As a current Ireland international I'm guessing he'd have the full cohort of the IRFUs legal team behind him?

Assuming the rumours about the young man in question are true why on earth would they make a statement? Only reason to do that is if his name does leak into the press. Otherwise they just confirm what can be denied right now. Anyway, this guy sounds like he may have a few interesting 'what I did on my holidays' stories by the time he gets back into pre-season. He'd want to be careful. A bit like the Ryan Giggs super-injunction story his identity and involvement in the (alleged) incidents is an open secret and once you get a reputation, mud sticks.

To be honest, I'm only not naming him so as this site can't be cited as libelous but literally hundreds maybe thousands of people have already been talking about this openly on twitter so it's not exactly hard to find out who it is in relation to both incidents. Certainly he needs to step into Doug Howletts shoes this season and he's decided to start by vandalising cars  

profitius wrote:Dunno about POM needing to bulk up Rory. He is about 17st which is about a stone heavier than Dusautoir and many other players. Chris Henry and SOB are about the same weight. Cian Healy charged towards POM a few months ago, POM caught him and drove him back about 5 yards. You don't see that too often. Pound for pound strength is more important than bulk. Look at the Kiwis. They're big but not overly bulked up.


Ireland have to play to their strengths. Heavier players are less mobile as the Kiwis show when they play the Boks. So its all about balance. There are other players who are not very heavy compared to others, for example Best, Ryan, Heaslip or even Healy. Conor Murray is a good player and offers physicality but his size means he might not be as quick as smaller, more nippy players to the breakdown or getting the ball out. Its all about balance and what the coach wants.


Btw, anyone notice a lot of controversy involving a certain rugby players lately. Stealing car ariels off roofs on holidays and getting a beating from an Irish soldier. Hopefully the rugby authorities won't turn a blind eye to his antics if true.

I'm not really sure that a lot of the listed weights are accurate to be honest. O'Mahony looks a lot smaller than a lot of his opposite numbers. Like I said he is incredibly physical and aggressive regardless but at the end of the day he is going to struggle against players with the same aggressiveness and the added bulk. He is built more like Tom Croft is.

Looks can be deceiving. Croft is 3 inches taller and a bit lighter so they have a different body shape. When I first saw Iain Henderson I guessed he was closer to 16st than the 18st he is.

I've heard stories about said winger in the past ( due to this guys nature, a lot of them are true, a whole lot more are complete bollix). Said player put in a tremendous amount of work in last season off the field in getting his body right. Lost something like 2 or 3 kilos without losing any muscle.


I'm guessing most have figured it out by now.

There appears to be a lot of clowns coming through the irish academy system at the moment which is in direct contrast to the uber professional nature of those coming through the welsh system.

The IRFU and schmidt need to get on top of this sooner rather than later.

A lot? Don't know where you're getting that information or belief to be honest. A few bad apples will sour the perception of all though rightly or wrongly.

Thomond wrote:A lot? Don't know where you're getting that information or belief to be honest. A few bad apples will sour the perception of all though rightly or wrongly.

I can think of three who have recently been capped who are behaving more like footballers, when they should be taking their lead from o'driscoll.

Thomond wrote:A lot? Don't know where you're getting that information or belief to be honest. A few bad apples will sour the perception of all though rightly or wrongly.

Scrumdown isn't worth engaging, mate. This won't be the last irish thread he tries to disrupt so it is best to ignore him.

Who is the flamboyant winger anyway? Can someone tell me. Zebo is the only flamboyant winger I can think of but he seems to be a decent sort.

It would be a Corkonian winger but legally we're not allowed name him.

What a pity I like Cork wingers. If its true the party involved probably should be dropped. Thats one of the things I like about Irish rugby. In general they are one of the most diciplined set of players off the field and generally good role models. Hopefully we dont lose that.

Couple of bad incidents now which the public know of but haven't been able to be fully printed. Hoping it doesn't continue.

For what it's worth, I think zebo would be absolute class at 15, really hope we see him there then you have serious winger options. I watched the first halves of the Wales 2013 game and the Argie 2012 game (I consider our best games in quite some time). I'd love to see sexton and Murray playing like tat consistently. I'd love to see us use our wingers like we did then. Our forwards were also massively dynamic, quickest to the ball, getting over the gainline through pace and guile combined with power rather than pure blunt force. Our scrum and lineout were good without being massive it really was the collective unity and collective agreement and execution on the gameplan.

Would love to see that back 3 that played against the pumas: gilroy-zebo-Bowe
They were absolutely lethal.

I just hope we see our resources used to the best possible ends, not sacrificing results but developing talent just the same. As an example ulster will have four centres in cave, Marshall, olding and Farrell who are all capped or touted to be capped. How we use them will be interesting.

Personally I thnk only Marshall will feature in the AIs as Joe likes his 12s to truck up bad ball and he does that best. Will he get his game game provincially though? Will Olding be moved to 13?

A bit more rotation in the AIs would be nice without putting out a mainly 2nd string side in any game. Sherry, archer/hagan to feature

Scrumdown wrote:There appears to be a lot of clowns coming through the irish academy system at the moment which is in direct contrast to the uber professional nature of those coming through the welsh system.  

The IRFU and schmidt need to get on top of this sooner rather than later.  

Did Cuthbert & Halpenny go through the Welsh system?