Bradley v Marquez, disagreement over testing!!

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-boxing-news/the-bob-arum-nevada-testing-agency-is-failing

Seen this recently and something is just not right. Bradley should walk from Arum as he's breached their contract according to this report.

The only logical explanation is that Bob Arum think JMM is on drugs. Therefore if VADA conduct testing he will be caught. If he is caught then the fight is called off and JMM will probably retire. Also, with nothing being found by this outside agency, maybe Bob is thinking that it will help JMM knock Bradley out, thus resulting in Pacquiao 5.

i hope in wrong, but this guy is a complete Frak!ng cretin. The sooner he gets out of this sport the bloody better.

Fighters deciding they don't want to do drug tests is a farce. Regulatory and control bodies are as corrupt as ever.

Let's face it just like many professional athletes from different sports boxers take ped's and it isn't isolated to a few.

I also have suspicion about fighters who bang the drum about the need for testing. Some of these guys think they won't be caught because they are paying the extra money for designer ped's.

See in the opposite strongback. I think those who bang the drum for stringent drugs testing should be commended for their actions in trying to clean up a potentially VERY dangerous sport.

Those that decline testing in any way shape or form should have their fight contract terminated and a 6 month suspension, plus pay a fine for contract breach of say £50,000.

Athletes get random drugs test, as do footballers, so why can boxers and promoters dictate the terms???

Its an absolute disgrace that there is no strict and standardized testing in a sport as dangerous as boxing. The people in charge who turn a blind eye to PEDs should be ashamed of themselves, risking fighters lives for the sake of money grubbing. Vermin.

Can only echo the sentiments above. We're only getting one side of the story but you have to feel for Bradley.

I know where you're coming from strongy, re the 'campaigners' being potentially guilty themselves, but it doesn't mean everyone who raises  the subject is juicing. After his last fight, and his connections, if I was fighting jmm I'd want him tested.

Not a doubt in my mind that JMM was on something for the last Pacquiao fight and Bradley should pull out if they breach the contracted terms. Marquez hooks up with a convicted steriod dealer, knocks out a guy with a sickening one punch KO when previously he never really hurt him over 36 rounds and just bloody look at the difference in his body shape. I don't buy that he just started training harder and eating right at 38 years old.

Nah, Marquez just had a misspent youth and finally saw the light!

Whatever he was or wasn't taking, the whole package as you describe cheesey, wasn't too subtle!

He did a Bruno - put on massive muscle and lost a step (or 5 in Brunos case). Raw horsepower.

Yeh, Gabe Montoya has been all over this on Twitter the last week or so. Lots of big bust-ups between Heredia and Victor Conte.

Testing in boxing is an undeniable disgrace. The sport needs more Nonitos.

Got to love Arum............Manny rises from 108 - 147 and hits like a rock.......and Arum is moaning about JMM..........

Typical..........

Besides I think drugs are rampant anyway.........Steroids don't just make you stronger and more powerful they help you recover from injury better and the results go on way after use...

You take them and then make sure the drugs are out of your system when they test...however the gains will still be there..

Shut up Arum and look closer to home..

Never used steroids but know a lot of meat heads in the gym that have and they say it's ridiculous the effect that it has on them, it makes me quite sad that one of my alltime favourite fighters is almost blatantly juicing. The second Manny hit the deck the first time from Marquez's right my immediate thought was "Steroids".

AlexHuckerby wrote:Never used steroids but know a lot of meat heads in the gym that have and they say it's ridiculous the effect that it has on them, it makes me quite sad that one of my alltime favourite fighters is almost blatantly juicing. The second Manny hit the deck the first time from Marquez's right my immediate thought was "Steroids".

So anyone that knocks Manny out is juicing....

Then by implication you must have felt the same when Hatton was knocked unconscious by Manny just as badly...RIGHT ??

I'll be honest I don't mind JMM juicing for Manny.....

Holyfield and Manny are the only two fighters I know who are as deadly 35 pounds heavier than where they won their first title.............

We know Holy juiced..

I don't think Manny looks AS powerful, he's just carried more of his power up than others.

Both he and Floyd sparked Hatton, each with a peach of a punch.

Much of the damage Pac's handed out at higher weight has been done via accumulation rather than 1 punch ko power. That's more about his ability to maintain high volume with good power than being some kind of mini-Tyson.

Almost all his wins at higher weights have been decisions.

I've got massive question marks over Manny as well but I think his fight with Rios is under pretty strong testing. Manny isn't that powerful though at the higher weights as the only guy he has knocked out properly was Hatton and his chin had some serious question marks by that stage. Cotto and De La Hoya were accumulation and his other wins were decisions.

If the average meatheads in your average gym use them, then why is anyone surprised to think professional athletes (whose career, finances and livelihood are totally dependent on performance) are not?

 

Pacquiao has fought rock-jawed welterweights to be fair and could probably have stopped Margarito and Mosley had he stepped on the gas (he almost made the sturdy Clottey buckle from body shots).

I really feel it for Hatton -- that knockout almost claimed his life.

Don't bet on Pacquiao-Rios being privy to stringent testing -- one works with Alex Ariza, the other with Memo Heredia.

hazharrison wrote:Pacquiao has fought rock-jawed welterweights to be fair and could probably have stopped Margarito and Mosley had he stepped on the gas (he almost made the sturdy Clottey buckle from body shots).

I really feel it for Hatton -- that knockout almost claimed his life.

Don't bet on Pacquiao-Rios being privy to stringent testing -- one works with Alex Ariza, the other with Memo Heredia.

Look a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.....But when someone cries steroids when manny gets knocked out...I find it almost laughable....

We saw how peds helped Holy..........No one should be as powerful at 147 as they are 108..

Look at Hatton....Killer at 140.............lacked power at 147..

Manny and Marquez look stronger at 147! Manny at 130lbs came in at 145 ish so he's only put on 5lbs yet looks a lot stronger

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Pacquiao has fought rock-jawed welterweights to be fair and could probably have stopped Margarito and Mosley had he stepped on the gas (he almost made the sturdy Clottey buckle from body shots).

I really feel it for Hatton -- that knockout almost claimed his life.

Don't bet on Pacquiao-Rios being privy to stringent testing -- one works with Alex Ariza, the other with Memo Heredia.

Look a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.....But when someone cries steroids when manny gets knocked out...I find it almost laughable....

We saw how peds helped Holy..........No one should be as powerful at 147 as they are 108..

Look at Hatton....Killer at 140.............lacked power at 147..

I agree -- was pointing out that Pacquaio has been incredibly powerful at 147. Marquez played Pacquiao at his own game and hired a "conditioner".

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Pacquiao has fought rock-jawed welterweights to be fair and could probably have stopped Margarito and Mosley had he stepped on the gas (he almost made the sturdy Clottey buckle from body shots).

I really feel it for Hatton -- that knockout almost claimed his life.

Don't bet on Pacquiao-Rios being privy to stringent testing -- one works with Alex Ariza, the other with Memo Heredia.

Look a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.....But when someone cries steroids when manny gets knocked out...I find it almost laughable....

We saw how peds helped Holy..........No one should be as powerful at 147 as they are 108..

Look at Hatton....Killer at 140.............lacked power at 147..

I agree -- was pointing out that Pacquaio has been incredibly powerful at 147. Marquez played Pacquiao at his own game and hired a "conditioner".

Too true......

Huge Marquez fan, but can't defend him on this one. Take the test if you are clean. I don't believe that he was juicing for the Pacquiao fight, but refusing proper drug testing isn't going to help.

Marquez hasnt refused the test mate - Arum has. JMM is willing to take both the urine and blood testing.

Huge respect to Bradley, he should stick to his guns.

If we needed any more reasons to hate bob Arum.....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Pacquiao has fought rock-jawed welterweights to be fair and could probably have stopped Margarito and Mosley had he stepped on the gas (he almost made the sturdy Clottey buckle from body shots).

I really feel it for Hatton -- that knockout almost claimed his life.

Don't bet on Pacquiao-Rios being privy to stringent testing -- one works with Alex Ariza, the other with Memo Heredia.

Look a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.....But when someone cries steroids when manny gets knocked out...I find it almost laughable....

We saw how peds helped Holy..........No one should be as powerful at 147 as they are 108..

Look at Hatton....Killer at 140.............lacked power at 147..

Especially when a Flomo says so in complete absence of any proof...

Name someone as powerful at 108 as 147?

Because sensible intelligent rational posters on here have already established it sure as hell isn't Pacquaio, so who else are you talking about?

What are you talking about...

No offence but I was responding to Haz...someone that offers more than one line wummery...Now just go about planting your humorous one line garbage elsewhere.

Your lightweight article was a nice surprise though.....

J.Benson II wrote:If the average meatheads in your average gym use them, then why is anyone surprised to think professional athletes (whose career, finances and livelihood are totally dependent on performance) are not?

 

Very good point...and so obvious..

"We saw how peds helped Holy..........No one should be as powerful at 147 as they are 108.."

Flawed logic, i am sure most professional sportsmen who are involved in a physical combat sport and stronger in their early 30's than they were when they were 16!!!

Plus you’re a weightlifter aren’t you? going up 39lbs over 16plus years isn’t that spectacular, especially as in his early days he would most likely still naturally developing

Michael Spinks used weights to get to Heavy...punched like a sissy against Holmes...

Holy is the only other example and he used peds...

Gomez, Hearns, Spinks, Duran, Leonard, Taylor, Robbo all evidence to the contrary..

Besdides he's going the distance with Morales, Larios etc at 126 and then wobbling hatton with every punch over a stone higher..Remember his fight with Sanchez at 122 he looked ordinary and couldn't hurt the guy..He was 22 then..

Or maybe he is a freak..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Michael Spinks used weights to get to Heavy...punched like a sissy against Holmes...

Holy is the only other example and he used peds...

Gomez, Hearns, Spinks, Duran, Leonard, Taylor, Robbo all evidence to the contrary..

Besdides he's going the distance with Morales, Larios etc at 126 and then wobbling hatton with every punch over a stone higher..Remember his fight with Sanchez at 122 he looked ordinary and couldn't hurt the guy..He was 22 then..

Or maybe he is a freak..

Is one example, Ricky Hatton, the best you've got to support your (read Floyd Sr's) supposition?

My point is, a 16yr old who has to fight to eat(not wanting to sound too dramatic) is not going to be as strong as a boxer who has the best facilities, dietician, trainer available. Your body is arguably still growing up until your early 20's so rising throught the weight classes isnt the crazy feat of nature some people think! Jamie roberts, the rugby player, put on 2 stone over a 2 year period through specialised training regime. He got faster and stronger and piled on muscle. Mayweather was fighting at 106lbs when he was 16.....look at him now going in against a light middle weight

jack-rabbitpunch wrote:My point is, a 16yr old who has to fight to eat(not wanting to sound too dramatic) is not going to be as strong as a boxer who has the best facilities, dietician, trainer available. Your body is arguably still growing up until your early 20's so rising throught the weight classes isnt the crazy feat of nature some people think! Jamie roberts, the rugby player, put on 2 stone over a 2 year period through specialised training regime. He got faster and stronger and piled on muscle. Mayweather was fighting at 106lbs when he was 16.....look at him now going in against a light middle weight

I'll ignore the muppet.......Yes but Manny was at bantam till his early twenties...........Lot's of young fighters move up but only Holy and Manny are more powerful now than when they were at their peak..

Qawi took Holy's best shot....Holy struggled to get Ocasio and Deleon out................Yet carries a huge whack at heavy decking Bowe...Tyson...Rodrigues and Douglas.....

Manny isn't a natural 147 pounder but he punches like a middle..

Like I said he may be a freak..but coming from where he does I have my doubts.

We will never actually know until/if he does an armstrong in a few years. But i like to think he is clean and is just one of those sportsmen who trains hard, eats right and says their prayers.......Quoting hogan probably isnt the best line of defense on this matter

Ill be very surprise if Mayweather / Pacquiao and Marquez isn't juicing. Their bodies and definition are enough to convince me. Marquez more so compare his body to the Mayweather fight to the one against Pacman last time out, it's ridiculous a man in his late 30s all of a sudden is ripped to pieces and hits like a mule against an iron chinned fighter ?

Yet he passes the test, I don't think they can be caught. They make too much money authorities more than likely turn a blind eye.

Mayweather allegedly failed tests against Cotto which were swept under the carpet.

Cheers Rodders

Good points rodders......Thing is at 108 Manny's initial record was 12-1 (4).......Which kind of points to the fact he wasn't naturally a puncher...........

Manny's power was scary against Hatton..

Is Pacquaio such a big puncher tho Truss ? Think the last fighter he stopped was Cotto and he couldn't nail him to the canvas hitting him with the kitchen sink. It's more he's strength he pushed Margarito off him in some of the exchanges which was frightening.

We'll never know , look at Jones Jnr superb athlete but I can't watch his fights in the same light now.

Cheers Rodders

I don't think Mayweather is juicing, he punches as hard as Malignaggi at Welter/LMW and he has come from featherweight and was only really a hard puncher lower down..........which is incidentally how it should be.......unlike Pacquiao who has done the complete opposite...........

Here we go again, driving truck's through the holes in Truss' arguments and as always it's just tantrums and hissy fits in return......

Rodney wrote:Is Pacquaio such a big puncher tho Truss ? Think the last fighter he stopped was Cotto and he couldn't nail him to the canvas hitting him with the kitchen sink. It's more he's strength he pushed Margarito off him in some of the exchanges which was frightening.

We'll never know , look at Jones Jnr superb athlete but I can't watch his fights in the same light now.

Cheers Rodders

No. Exactly.

Maybe with you making the point, not me, Truss might actual respond/defend himself.

Like I said dont know where the impression is Manny is some sort of sledgehammer hitter he isn't. Mayweather strength is unreal he bullied Shane Mosley and I reckon he could outhustle most at Welter.

Look at his body compared to where he was at, it's a big change. Same goes for Marqez and Manny

Cheers Rodders

Rodney wrote:Like I said dont know where the impression is Manny is some sort of sledgehammer hitter he isn't. Mayweather strength is unreal he bullied Shane Mosley and I reckon he could outhustle most at Welter.

Look at his body compared to where he was at, it's a big change. Same goes for Marqez and Manny

Cheers Rodders

I'll ignore the wum...Manny was awesome against the usual sturdy Hatton though Rodd.......everytime he landed he rocked him..

Kosta was a rock hard puncher

that could be more down to hattons body having enough though

jack-rabbitpunch wrote:that could be more down to hattons body having enough though

He'd only been stopped by Floyd...but you could be right.....

I just don't buy into this JMM is and Manny hasn't crud.......Manny and testing haven't gone hand in hand.....and locked away in the philippines who knows........A corrupt Country..

Yawn, your jingoist god save America the greatest nation on earth crap is astonishingly tedious.

No wonder the rest of the world hates you guys so much.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn, your jingoist god save America the greatest nation on earth crap is astonishingly tedious.

No wonder the rest of the world hates you guys so much.

Is there any need for this ??......

Pretty sure Mayweather doesn't juice. Doesn't look like it, and he's one of the biggest advocates for testing. Pretty sure Manny doesn't either, he's not overnight become some sort of bull mastiff from a yorkshire terrier, the guy has accumulated his weight through age, training and nutrition - he's not some explosive bomb thrower but he does have KO power, as all boxers to at the level he operates at. Can't use his KO of Hatton as a stick, because frankly, he just hit him hard with a wicked punch, it wasn't suspect at the time, and it shouldn't be suspect in retrospect to hit him over the head with. The massive question mark can now be held over Marquez because of his previous links with juicing coaches and the fact he managed to KO Pacquiao with a punch that we've never seen him land before at the weight to that effect. Plus the fact Arum is trying to cover for him - it all stinks.

No smoke without fire. No smoke around Manny (how the hell did this topic become about him?) but plenty around Marquez.

Toppy, although I sympathise, its useless trying to get Truss to listen if he has his own opinion, stubborn to the last that one. But lets not insult each other - we're bigger than that.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Pretty sure Mayweather doesn't juice. Doesn't look like it, and he's one of the biggest advocates for testing. Pretty sure Manny doesn't either, he's not overnight become some sort of bull mastiff from a yorkshire terrier, the guy has accumulated his weight through age, training and nutrition - he's not some explosive bomb thrower but he does have KO power, as all boxers to at the level he operates at. Can't use his KO of Hatton as a stick, because frankly, he just hit him hard with a wicked punch, it wasn't suspect at the time, and it shouldn't be suspect in retrospect to hit him over the head with. The massive question mark can now be held over Marquez because of his previous links with juicing coaches and the fact he managed to KO Pacquiao with a punch that we've never seen him land before at the weight to that effect. Plus the fact Arum is trying to cover for him - it all stinks.

No smoke without fire. No smoke around Manny (how the hell did this topic become about him?) but plenty around Marquez.

Toppy, although I sympathise, its useless trying to get Truss to listen if he has his own opinion, stubborn to the last that one. But lets not insult each other - we're bigger than that.

I'm supposed to change my opinion because you have a different one...

and when have I insulted him.......

Leave it out...You should try to be less patronising mate.............I've taken peds...........Not that i'm proud of it.

Manny and Floyd both excelled at SFW.

Since moving into ‘big boy’ weights (140+) above that, their records are as follows:

Floyd: 13-0 (5)
Manny: 7-2 (3)

Fail to see anything in that to suggest Manny has some super human ko power that he’s carried up to the big boy weights whereas Floyd is clearly ‘au naturelle’.

Of their stoppage victories, Manny only has one actual ko – Hatton; whereas Floyd has two – Hatton & Ortiz.

Overall career ko % statistics:

Floyd: 59%
Manny: 62%

Again, nothing to split them.

As is the same with their weight/age - both were down around 108/112 at 16/17 yrs old. Now both are in their mid-30s at 147.