Ben Smith : World Class Personified

There's been a lot of love shown for Ben Smith in recent times. The versatile Kiwi back has been in impressive form in super and provincial rugby and raised many untrained eyebrows when he was included in the All Blacks squad for the French internationals in the absence of SBW, Conrad Smith, Richard Kahui and Corey Jane at the expensive of wingers and centres who were lit up more brightly on the global radar.

However he was undoubtably the spark in an otherwise often ponderous All Blacks back line (aside from stellar cameos from the peerless impact of powerful and unflinching Rene Ranger.)

Smith has demonstrated extraordinary ability to read the game and times his injection from wing or full back with faultless accuracy. He is one of those players who always seems to get the bounce of the ball, always has more time than those around him, appears on the supporting shoulder of a player making the break, arrives to make the timely last ditch tackle, scythes unexpectedly at an angle the defensive line cannot cover, makes the magical short kick  that casts an organised defense into disarray or knows just when to act as the unselfish link man with a fast mind and even faster hands. 

Such is his vision and skill, that the game often seems to be going on in slow motion around him. He reminds me of a sort if hybrid of Jeff Wilson and Christian Cullen with a bit of Conrad Smith and David Campese thrown in.

This kind if high tempo skill execution is the antithesis of Gatlandball. Which will provide us with some entertaining contrasts in upcoming matches no doubt.

Ben Smith seems the natural evolution of the wing-fullback. The attacking nous and pace of a Joe Rokocoko blended with the aerial skills and kicking precision of a Corey Jane and the spatial awareness in the tight of Conrad Smith. He evokes the aura of the great French play making backs with flair and unpredictability and conjures up images of the legendary Welsh players JPR or Bennet.

There's no doubt that this guy is a new kind if super-talent in a purple patch of form and the way he makes even his All Blacks team mates appear ponderous and ordinary says something for the revolutionary level of match aptitude he is bringing to the game.

In my mind this kind of back play revolution has not been seen since Chris Ashton invented following the ball.

Thoughts?

Sounds impressive.

If he had started against England last year do you think it would have been a closer game?

Hard to say Cyril. England were probably the best team in the world that day if not the best team the world had ever seen, I'm not sure even the combined strength of the entire Marvell comics superhero catalogue AND Leigh Halfpenny could have stopped England that day. But then, if Ben Smith had avoided eating British food for the entire fortnight (and I suspect this applies even on a strict starvation diet for the entire period) he may still have shaded his opposite number on the day.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Hard to say Cyril. England were probably the best team in the world that day if not the best team the world had ever seen, I'm not sure even the combined strength of the entire Marvell comics superhero catalogue AND Leigh Halfpenny could have stopped England that day. But then, if Ben Smith had avoided eating British food for the entire fortnight (and I suspect this applies even on a strict starvation diet for the entire period) he may still have shaded his opposite number on the day.

Sounds pretty fair.

Balshaw in his pomp was better then Smith though.

Maybe as a pure fullback, I will have to give you that. Although Smith is a superior centre to Tindall and I've heard some people say, a better flanker than Croft. So shall we call it a draw?

Ben Smith needs to play 13.

Reckon he will in the autumn dc. BOD will probably be playing his last game for Ireland against NZ and when he heard Conrad Smith was not going to play he must have had a wry smile to himself. Don't think he'll be happy at the thought of facing Ben Smith.

It wasn't so long ago that he was making cameos off the bench at outside centre, wing or fullback. His versatility is definitely a bonus and this year there were calls to have him play at fullback to replace an out of form Dagg. I think fullback is his best position but now that Dagg is back in form and Smith is taking a break, 13 seems the natural place for him to start. With Ranger out of the picture, it's nice to have a genuine option there because there aren't too many takers who have been in the AB environment. Will Ben be as good as Conrad at plugging the defensive gaps that Nonu invariably leaves? No question on attack he was the form AB this June and with Jane out still the natural place for him to be is on the wing, which is probably the worst position to show off his specific attacking talents.

Would you say that he's re-writing the book on back play?

yappysnap wrote:Would you say that he's re-writing the book on back play?

He needs to be careful. Ashton's lawyers will be on the phone citing copyright infringement.

Maybe if Ashton ruins his career suffering a shoulder injury after one of his swandives he'll get sued by Charles Riechelmann.

Our depth at wing and fullback is pretty good. Centre has been a bane of our backline as while our first choice is usually world class too often when that player is injured we play someone out of position there or someone too inexperienced. He's an intelligent footballer and we need someone with smarts for that position more than others. He's quicker than Conrad too so hopefully any slight positional deficiencies at international level will be negated by the speed at which he corrects it. That's how Cullen used to play at 15. I hope he gets consistent exposure at 13-we need specialists there and time is running out to groom a successor to Conrad.

Cyril wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Would you say that he's re-writing the book on back play?

He needs to be careful. Ashton's lawyers will be on the phone citing copyright infringement.

But lets face it the Ashton version doesnt have many words in it

lostinwales wrote:

Cyril wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Would you say that he's re-writing the book on back play?

He needs to be careful. Ashton's lawyers will be on the phone citing copyright infringement.

But lets face it the Ashton version doesnt have many words in it

Aye, probably true. Still, it's a better read than the Mike Phillips one. That's a picture book.

A picture tells a thousand words...

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:A picture tells a thousand words...

Is a video worth a million?

Paris Hilton's video probably made more than that.

I think Paris Hilton's video is public domain now.

A million hits then. Which is probably fewer hits than what Paris Hilton has had.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Reckon he will in the autumn dc. BOD will probably be playing his last game for Ireland against NZ and when he heard Conrad Smith was not going to play he must have had a wry smile to himself. Don't think he'll be happy at the thought of facing Ben Smith.

It wasn't so long ago that he was making cameos off the bench at outside centre, wing or fullback. His versatility is definitely a bonus and this year there were calls to have him play at fullback to replace an out of form Dagg. I think fullback is his best position but now that Dagg is back in form and Smith is taking a break, 13 seems the natural place for him to start. With Ranger out of the picture, it's nice to have a genuine option there because there aren't too many takers who have been in the AB environment. Will Ben be as good as Conrad at plugging the defensive gaps that Nonu invariably leaves? No question on attack he was the form AB this June and with Jane out still the natural place for him to be is on the wing, which is probably the worst position to show off his specific attacking talents.

B Smith has more straight line pace than C Smith at the moment but its the way Ben Smith has slowly but surely pushed himself to the front where he was the 'handy with no x factor reliable late sub'.

He's grown within the AB environment and that makes him one of the first names on the page this year and a valuable commodity. Its just where to put him- He's fine at 13-15...we know that- I can see him at 12 even- a DC/ Cruden, Smith, Smith lineup wouldnt go to badly. We just need to fill that 14 pos.

Has a player ever secured a world class reputation while shifting between three positions or more? It seems easier to do if you are in one, or at most two.

Nick de Luca shifted between the centre and the bench frequently (but he was guff at both so please ignore this post)

Umaga played 14, 13 and then 12

Always thought 13 was Umaga's best position.

Yeah Ben's slowly but surely developing an X factor of his own which is fantastic as usually it's not really something you can coach. Put it down to his intelligence I guess-he just knows when to do what. You need that as a 13.

Rugby Fan that would be the great Michael Jones.

Rugby Fan wrote:Has a player ever secured a world class reputation while shifting between three positions or more? It seems easier to do if you are in one, or at most two.

I wouldn't say they secured their world-class reputation WHILE shifting between 3 positions or more, but both Mike Gibson and Phil Bennett played international rugby in 4 different positions. I'm sure there must have been others over the decades and I expect other fans can name them.

In this weeks Rugby News, Ben Smith won the Michael Jackson Award.

http://rugbynews.realviewdigital.com/?iid=80095&sr=0#folio=13

nganboy wrote:Umaga played 14, 13 and then 12

Given enough time he'd end up a loose head.
After all there's not much exageration on this thread.

Non offload, he really did.

nganboy wrote:Umaga played 14, 13 and then 12

So did Nonu.

Ben Smith is 27 years of age and very similar to Leon MacDonald the ex all black fullback. They tried to move him to centre also and it didn't work.

Oh dear. I'm a Canterbury man but Leon MacDonald has never done what Ben Smith has done. Smith has way more talent. He's played at centre and has done very well there. MacDonald played there and it was a rucking disaster!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Oh dear. I'm a Canterbury man but Leon MacDonald has never done what Ben Smith has done. Smith has way more talent. He's played at centre and has done very well there. MacDonald played there and it was a rucking disaster!

Smith has talent but is not world class. He doesn't have world class physical attributes or world class speed. He is a good footballer in the way that blen blair and leon mcdonald were good footballers. Nothing more.

That is your opinion sir and you are welcome to it. World class is indeed premature but NZ supporters are very enthusiastic about him. He was, after all, the form Super and June NZ player.

Conrad Smith does not have world class physical attributes or world class speed either but he's a better player than Ben Blair and Leon MacDonald. (Stop mentioning Canterbury players!) Early days yet and I don't think 14 will be the best place to showcase his talents in the RC. Let's see how he does in the northern tour where he'll likely play at 13. Then you can judge how he's going then and what sort of a player.

He reminds me more of Aaron Mauger. The finest 12 ever produced.

That's a better Canterbury man to bring up GE.

Scrumdown us Kiwis are excited about Smith because he is world class at his core role. Passing the ball. Carter and the rest of the All Black backline operated well enough outside halfbacks with only average passing games but now that we have Smith and also Perenara able to fire bullets they'll thrive even more once NZ get their quick phase play going. It's hard enough resetting a defensive line against quick phases without a bloke firing missiles to the world's best 10 to pick holes in it. Sure the other parts of his game need work and he can get scragged much like TKB did in the Super Rugby final but he'll get better as time goes on. If Perenara doesn't usurp him first.

Hate to burst your red and black bubble but Tim Horan might want to say something about that. At least you didn't mention Shayne Philpott. (Just imagine him in black playing outside Simon Mannix).

Rugby Fan wrote:Has a player ever secured a world class reputation while shifting between three positions or more? It seems easier to do if you are in one, or at most two.

Austin Healy played 9-15 and was world class at all of them

DC we're talking about Ben not Aaron. Good to see Aaron looking much better in June than last year.

Rugbysmiths.

Anyway talking about these Canterbury players, they seem to be getting a bit lazy, Dan carter has now come out to say that hes not going to play any Rugby for the first 6 months of next year.

Youd never see Auckland players doing that.

Scrumdown wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Oh dear. I'm a Canterbury man but Leon MacDonald has never done what Ben Smith has done. Smith has way more talent. He's played at centre and has done very well there. MacDonald played there and it was a rucking disaster!

Smith has talent but is not world class. He doesn't have world class physical attributes or world class speed.  He is a good footballer in the way that blen blair and leon mcdonald were good footballers.  Nothing more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKPv8lHcoA

GloriousEmpire wrote:He reminds me more of Aaron Mauger. The finest 12 ever produced.

 

GloriousEmpire wrote:He reminds me more of Aaron Mauger. The finest 12 ever produced.

I've heard a lot about this guy. The namesake of another ex-AB who played for Leicester for a little bit. Massive difference of course as the Leicester Mauger was utter pants. Couldn't handle the searing pace of NH rugby I'd guess.

Mauger, Philpott, Mannix, McAllister, Macdonald, Blair, Ralph...gosh the list goes on...at least ben Smith has leapt out of that mix this year...whew...

Being a southern man I've seen a bit of Ben Smith both live and televised.
He's been a bit of a slow burning talent.
I wouldnt be ready to call him world class just yet.
He has played well in underperforming Otago teams for several years now.
I remember being poo-pooed by my fellow kiwis on here saying that he was not good enough to be considered for AB selection last year! You know who you are guys!
He's supposed to be top bloke.
Remember 4 years ago watching him play for his local club team, Green Island, the week after Highlanders didnt make play-offs (again). Only member of Highlanders who played that weekend. Said he just loved playin footy especially for his local club.
He played centre that day and looked totally world class at club level.
Good player? Yes.
World class? I will comment further in December!

Hood83 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:He reminds me more of Aaron Mauger. The finest 12 ever produced.

I've heard a lot about this guy. The namesake of another ex-AB who played for Leicester for a little bit. Massive difference of course as the Leicester Mauger was utter pants. Couldn't handle the searing pace of NH rugby I'd guess.

 Mate. My grandfather flew a bomber in his heyday and was a highly decorated pilot. When he to got to the retirement home he sat in a big chair with his arms outstretched and made dribbly airplane noises, whilst collecting his large pension payments.

Same same.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Hood83 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:He reminds me more of Aaron Mauger. The finest 12 ever produced.

I've heard a lot about this guy. The namesake of another ex-AB who played for Leicester for a little bit. Massive difference of course as the Leicester Mauger was utter pants. Couldn't handle the searing pace of NH rugby I'd guess.

 Mate. My grandfather flew a bomber in his heyday and was a highly decorated pilot. When he to got to the retirement home he sat in a big chair with his arms outstretched and made dribbly airplane noises, whilst collecting his large pension payments.

Same same.

I think Mauger was 26 when he signed for Leicester, pretty much coming into his prime.

Sorry for mentioning Aaron. I think I was cross threading/doing something else.

Which brings me to this next point. Don't. Smoke. Crack.

 We should start calling the NZ players by their first names. I don't think there's any overlap.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Hood83 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:He reminds me more of Aaron Mauger. The finest 12 ever produced.

I've heard a lot about this guy. The namesake of another ex-AB who played for Leicester for a little bit. Massive difference of course as the Leicester Mauger was utter pants. Couldn't handle the searing pace of NH rugby I'd guess.

 Mate. My grandfather flew a bomber in his heyday and was a highly decorated pilot. When he to got to the retirement home he sat in a big chair with his arms outstretched and made dribbly airplane noises, whilst collecting his large pension payments.

Same same.

I think Mauger was 26 when he signed for Leicester, pretty much coming into his prime.

 Its all a question of motivation then,
Perhaps.

In his prime for the ABs and cantab Mauger was legendary. If the coaching structures in the NH are inadequate and the incentives incorrectly aligned then that may explain a host of other issues perhaps, such as The NHs general squandering of vast talent resources?

Or maybe he just wasn't that good and this was highlighted playing a different style of rugby....I think this is a more believable theory.

Mauger was certainly a very good centre, best 12 ever....no.

Don't forget there are Cantabrians here Pooly

I'd have had Mauger in for the 07 QF that's for sure. Fail.