Champions League Group Stages

First topic message reminder :

The draw is tonight and we could have some potentially crazy strong groups, Manchester City have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Bayern Munich or Barcelona.

What is the tie everybody wants to see in the group stages?

champagne the point is you cannot say that any more as stated is turining into a 2 horse only race- the difference in quality between Dortmund and bayer/schalke is like a different league!!. whereas the PL is getting even more evenly distributed

Sammy E scored two for Chelsea last night. Class player, second goal was a class goal. I maintain that it was a bit of a coup getting him easily

I wonder how much longer the Arsenal critics will keep up the charade of they have not beaten anyone yet? Napoli, Dortmund, Liverpool, Spurs I suppose none of whom qualify as strong teams. Dortmund got lucky at the emirates last time around scoring a late goal against the run of play, an arsenal would be goal being cleared off the line and a Cazorla shot going of the crossbar. This time we returned the favor.

To be honest - Arsenal could be ten points clear at the top of the table with a game to go, and most critics will eagerly await the club being put under administration.

Also KR, I am chuckling at all those who said Arsenal was screwed to be placed into this group when these groups came out. It seems like Dortmund, Napoli, and Marseille were the ones who got screwed by getting Arsenal in this group.

Very true SoCal... It's been a very good start to the season from Arsenal. Ramsey is possibly one of the top five players in the world at the moment, certainly the top Welshman. Given the injuries the Gunners have had, standing atop the EPL, and the toughest group in the CL is a wonderful achievement.

A few days ago, I asked if Flamini still usurps Arteta, given the two huge performances Arteta put in against 'Pool and Dortmund, does that still apply?

kingraf wrote:Very true SoCal... It's been a very good start to the season from Arsenal. Ramsey is possibly one of the top five players in the world at the moment, certainly the top Welshman. Given the injuries the Gunners have had, standing atop the EPL, and the toughest group in the CL is a wonderful achievement.

A few days ago, I asked if Flamini still usurps Arteta, given the two huge performances Arteta put in against 'Pool and Dortmund, does that still apply?

I think they are both high quality, and at times on the road against a top squad we may have to play both and move Ozil out to the wing with Ramsey being the central attack midfielder. Really an embarrassment of riches right now for Arsenal in the midfield. As for Ramsey, that is 11 goals in 16 matches, while leading the team in tackles and creating a number of goals as well. Last year people were saying that Ramsey was not Arsenal quality now this year he is clearly the best player so far in EPL, what a bizarre and pleasing turn of events for the club and this young man. He was the goat, (not GOAT) of the loss at home to Dortmund so he even rectified that one blot on his resume so far. We are one atrocious referee in Villa match away from having an 8 point lead after 10 matches. Especially, impressive as you stated considering the laundry list of top players and internationals we have had out due to injury this season. I can't think of a single top side in the premier league that has had as many injuries and they are still top of the table with a supposedly thin squad.

Another myth that has been shattered is this joke that ARsenal are weak defensively. 2 matches against Suarez, Sturridge, Lewandowski, and Reus and no goals given up. Apparently, the mertesacker and Kos are shiit brigade are watching some other league that you and I are not privy to.

Good points lads.. been fighting your corner all year. People love having a dig at the arsernal.

People also keep talking about Arsenals lack of depth.

1. They have more depth in midfield than any other PL team.

2. they have Arteta and Flamini as DM- they may need both in the odd game, however even with 1 they are a force against anyone and will hold on to the ball more due to there embarrassment of riches in midfield.

3. up front isnt a problem with this midfield, Giroud could effectively be replaced with a midfielder or bendtner, they also have Walcott coming back soon enough to add another dimension

4. the defence on paper may not quite be up at the highest PL standard ,

what does it matter when Arsenal are the kings of possession.. there defenders can be swapped around and as long as those players have technical ability Arsenal will remain strong.

Last year arsernal had the second best defensive record, that will surprise many that think they are lightweight and many that think they suck off the ball.

Firstly they dont suck off the ball and secondly they have more possession than any other team. People just need to jump on an Arsenal weakness(that doesn't really exist- its just an easier target)

Holland created a style of TOTAL FOOTBALL back in the day,

Barcelona took it on and evolved it into something slightly different.

However Arsenal are actually following this vision much more in-line with the Dutch original philosophy.

There players can switch around at will and they play as a collective team.

Watch united to see how disjointed a top team can look that play as separate units rather than as one.

Sir Fergie may be hailed as the greatest manager ever. However when Wenger hangs up his boots Arsenal will keep his philosophy going . Fergie has left with Man U in turmoil.
Arsenals last two games are very telling.

They dominated Liverpool and didn't allow SAS to hurt them.

They then beat Dortmund away when the team, probably thought deep down that there went good enough to compete.. Now they know they are at the highest level.

These two wins will have given them so much confidence. Next time they play a top team I expect them to raise there level even more.

Wow, some serious Arsenal love on here.

Must admit, Arsenal's resurgence has made me smile this season and I'd quite like to see them take the league (though my money is still probably on Chelsea).

socal1976 wrote:Another myth that has been shattered is this joke that ARsenal are weak defensively. 2 matches against Suarez, Sturridge, Lewandowski, and Reus and no goals given up. Apparently, the mertesacker and Kos are shiit brigade are watching some other league that you and I are not privy to.

I mentioned in the PL thread that Koscielny and Mertescaker were both very underated. Yesterday, they put on another top display. I consider both to be amongst the better CB's in the PL.

Are you arsenal fans stupid or something, nobody is saying you haven't beaten anyone or your squad is weak anymore. We`re actually pleased to see arsenal actually competing this year. We`re r just stating its way too early to categorically call them genuine anything at the moment. Mysti u can't just dismiss Dortmund as a top side after two or three years of success n then claim arsenal are genuine challengers after 10 games, completely agree with hammer.

Beat United on Sunday n of course your contenders but its where you are in April or may that counts. Still think that giroud is the only first team player that will hold you back from achieving trophies, you will disagree but that's just my personal opinion.

Also anyone else think that this arsenal group could see three teams end up all on 12 points?

Think people refer to arsenals lack of depth in gk, cb and striker, if a injury happened to any of them I dont think they have good enough back ups to step in. Dont think anyone disputed the depth of the midfield and yes arsenal do have injurys but mainly all in midfield where they do have the back up

Also think people are over playing arteta last night, I thought he was lucky to be on the pitch. All he did was foul people all night

I don't even support Arsenal, I just love seeing Wenger stick it to the masses with his group of acquired rejects

John wrote:Are you arsenal fans stupid or something, nobody is saying you haven't beaten anyone or your squad is weak anymore. We`re actually pleased to see arsenal actually competing this year. We`re r just stating its way too early to categorically call them genuine anything at the moment. Mysti u can't just dismiss Dortmund as a top side after two or three years of success n then claim arsenal are genuine challengers after 10 games, completely agree with hammer.

Beat United on Sunday n of course your contenders but its where you are in April or may that counts. Still think that giroud is the only first team player that will hold you back from achieving trophies, you will disagree but that's just my personal opinion.

Also anyone else think that this arsenal group could see three teams end up all on 12 points?

If they do arsenal would finish below dortmund due to dortmund scoring more away in the head to head record. It would mean napoli beating arsenal at home but cant see it being big enough to better arsenals win. God knows what happens if napoli have a better head to head record than dortmund but dortmund better than arsenal and arsenals better than napolis

Arteta in the first half was horrific, lucky to be on the pitch. The Lewandowski trip was a second yellow for me, especially if you compare it to Fellaini`s the previous night. The result though always clouds peoples views on bad performances though.

Yeah, Arsenal still not guaranteed after beating Marseille because I expect Dortmund to win both games.

Surely it then goes to GD? Arsenal need to put Marseille to the sword, and hope Napoli best Dortmund, but I can't see that happening.

Got to admire arsenals ability to achieve beyond their ability and surprise people.

Can't remember the last time I felt united punched above their weight and won unexpectedly.

I can see Arsenal getting at draw at Napoli. Dortmund should win their last two games but anything could happen.
Whoever comes third in this group will probably go on to win the Europa Cup.

This is the group of death- that is for certain.

Dortmund might not even get out of it yet!

Napoli could get the draw. I wouldn't put it past them tbh. This whole rubbish away stuff is in the past. They have Benitiz as manager now.

John wrote:Are you arsenal fans stupid or something, nobody is saying you haven't beaten anyone or your squad is weak anymore. We`re actually pleased to see arsenal actually competing this year. We`re r just stating its way too early to categorically call them genuine anything at the moment. Mysti u can't just dismiss Dortmund as a top side after two or three years of success n then claim arsenal are genuine challengers after 10 games, completely agree with hammer.

Spot on John  

Arsenal been a pleasure to watch this season so far

"Got to admire arsenals ability to achieve beyond their ability and surprise people."

They have only surprised people that cant work out there quality!!

Arsenal are quality. They didn't surprise me .

Olly wrote:

John wrote:Are you arsenal fans stupid or something, nobody is saying you haven't beaten anyone or your squad is weak anymore. We`re actually pleased to see arsenal actually competing this year. We`re r just stating its way too early to categorically call them genuine anything at the moment. Mysti u can't just dismiss Dortmund as a top side after two or three years of success n then claim arsenal are genuine challengers after 10 games, completely agree with hammer.

Spot on John  

Arsenal been a pleasure to watch this season so far

to be honest that whole comment is nonsense.(bar the fact arsernal are a pleasure to watch)

I have been stating how good arsernal are and will be since day one(ozil signing).. NO one agreed and now you lot are just back tracking and making up nonsense. When have I ever dismissed Dortmund !! I have only stated that arsernal are on par as i allways have done.. ITS YOU GUYS DISMISSING ARSENAL!!

Its ridiculous tbh. Start debating with some ethics.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY I AM NOT AN ARSENAL FAN.

(excuse the caps but that point needs to be drummed in!!)

Anyway.

Thoughts on who can win the CL and in what order of probability.

Mine below

1. Bayern
2. Barca
3. Chelsea
4. Madrid
5. Arsernal
6. Dortmund
7. PSG
8. Citeh
9. United
10. A Madrid

mystiroakey wrote:"Got to admire arsenals ability to achieve beyond their ability and surprise people."

They have only surprised people that cant work out there quality!!

Arsenal are quality. They didn't surprise me .

So you expected them to beat Dortmund away?

Cleaned up at the bookies or talking nonsense?

Even last year when they weren't great they did a number on bayern. A good trait to have.

bookies odds below(sky bet). basically stating its a 3 horse race and the other 7 are equally valid in the next rung(mirrors my picks bar chelseal- who I think are an exceptional cup team and possibly the best value bet)


Bayern Munich 5/2
Barcelona 9/2
Real Madrid 5/1
PSG 14/1
Atletico Madrid 14/1
Manchester City 14/1
Chelsea 14/1
Manchester Utd 16/1
Borussia Dortmund 16/1
Arsenal 16/1

Ent wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Got to admire arsenals ability to achieve beyond their ability and surprise people."

They have only surprised people that cant work out there quality!!

Arsenal are quality. They didn't surprise me .

So you expected them to beat Dortmund away?

Cleaned up at the bookies or talking nonsense?

Even last year when they weren't great they did a number on bayern. A good trait to have.

ent I said I expected them to get a result (look back on this thread!!)and yes had them in 3 way last night. (didn't win as I went for Marseilles to draw ,chelsea and arsernal to win )

A bit of a white lie to say you where the only one backing Arsenal at the beginning Mystir. I was there as well, being told repeatedly that "Arsenal are not Barcelona", or "They can't play without the ball"

Yes Graff .

you were there at the start.

Arsenal have won zilch, and have in the past looked good before crumbling (2007-08), so lets not get too carried away. And they've always played good football under Wenger, so nothing new in that. That said, their defense is for once looking solid, which should see them win something come May.

They haven't looked this good in comparison to other teams for 10 years.

I wont be holding my breath for a win this season- but I would bet at 4 trophies minimum within the next 5 years.

Ent wrote:Got to admire arsenals ability to achieve beyond their ability and surprise people.

Can't remember the last time I felt united punched above their weight and won unexpectedly.

we walked last season when most said that the squad wasnt good enough and that city would go on to dominate?!

That is going to look a very foolish prediction.

We shall see Ent

John wrote:Are you arsenal fans stupid or something, nobody is saying you haven't beaten anyone or your squad is weak anymore. We`re actually pleased to see arsenal actually competing this year. We`re r just stating its way too early to categorically call them genuine anything at the moment. Mysti u can't just dismiss Dortmund as a top side after two or three years of success n then claim arsenal are genuine challengers after 10 games, completely agree with hammer.

Beat United on Sunday n of course your contenders but its where you are in April or may that counts. Still think that giroud is the only first team player that will hold you back from achieving trophies, you will disagree but that's just my personal opinion.

Also anyone else think that this arsenal group could see three teams end up all on 12 points?

Wrong, we hear all this nonsense about Arsenal not being able to compete and not having played anyone over and over again and the only thing you can come up with is schoolyard name calling. What is a genuine contender if you are so smart do you know the meaning of the word? A contender is a team that has real potential to win the title, they may or they may not. If you can't figure out that arsenal is a contender 5 points clear following a road win in the hardest place to play in Germany than maybe you are the one is stupid and should look the word "contender" up in the dictionary because you would not know a contender if it jumped up and bit you on the arrse.

mystiroakey wrote:People also keep talking about Arsenals lack of depth.

1. They have more depth in midfield than any other PL team.

2. they have Arteta and Flamini as DM- they may need both in the odd game, however even with 1 they are a force against anyone and will hold on to the ball more due to there embarrassment of riches in midfield.

3. up front isnt a problem with this midfield, Giroud could effectively be replaced with a midfielder or bendtner, they also have Walcott coming back soon enough to add another dimension

4. the defence on paper may not quite be up at the highest PL standard ,

what does it matter when Arsenal are the kings of possession.. there defenders can be swapped around and as long as those players have technical ability Arsenal will remain strong.

Last year arsernal had the second best defensive record, that will surprise many that think they are lightweight and many that think they suck off the ball.

Firstly they dont suck off the ball and secondly they have more possession than any other team. People just need to jump on an Arsenal weakness(that doesn't really exist- its just an easier target)

Holland created a style of TOTAL FOOTBALL back in the day,

Barcelona took it on and evolved it into something slightly different.

However Arsenal are actually following this vision much more in-line with the Dutch original philosophy.

There players can switch around at will and they play as a collective team.

Watch united to see how disjointed a top team can look that play as separate units rather than as one.

Sir Fergie may be hailed as the greatest manager ever. However when Wenger hangs up his boots Arsenal will keep his philosophy going . Fergie has left with Man U in turmoil.
Arsenals last two games are very telling.

They dominated Liverpool and didn't allow SAS to hurt them.

They then beat Dortmund away when the team, probably thought deep down that there went good enough to compete.. Now they know they are at the highest level.

These two wins will have given them so much confidence. Next time they play a top team I expect them to raise there level even more.

Great post, excellent points I agree Arsenal's supposedly crap defense finished second in the prem in goals allowed, but some of these haters seem to ignore stats and reality. No one is claiming Arsenal are lock to win the league or Cup or anything like that but the fact that they are simply dismissed as inconsequential and non-contenders actually shows that these haters don't know as much as they would like us to believe. Absolutely agree that this win at Dortmund will give a still relatively young Arsenal squad the belief to push on from here. For the first time in years I am actually looking forward to this road contest at United.

socal1976 wrote:I wonder how much longer the Arsenal critics will keep up the charade of they have not beaten anyone yet? Napoli, Dortmund, Liverpool, Spurs I suppose none of whom qualify as strong teams. Dortmund got lucky at the emirates last time around scoring a late goal against the run of play, an arsenal would be goal being cleared off the line and a Cazorla shot going of the crossbar. This time we returned the favor.

Well of course you've beaten someone big now - Dortmund last night.

That's it though. Tottenham, Liverpool, and Napoli at home aren't big wins unless you have more modest aspirations - something like top 4 and last 16 or QFs in the Champions League.

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I wonder how much longer the Arsenal critics will keep up the charade of they have not beaten anyone yet? Napoli, Dortmund, Liverpool, Spurs I suppose none of whom qualify as strong teams. Dortmund got lucky at the emirates last time around scoring a late goal against the run of play, an arsenal would be goal being cleared off the line and a Cazorla shot going of the crossbar. This time we returned the favor.

Well of course you've beaten someone big now - Dortmund last night.

That's it though. Tottenham, Liverpool, and Napoli at home aren't big wins unless you have more modest aspirations - something like top 4 and last 16 or QFs in the Champions League.

Napoli is the number 2 ranked team in the Serie A, Liverpool was second in the table when we beat them. Spurs are not a big team that is for sure I won't argue there, but in recent years this is the best the Spurs have been in recent memory and we beat them without Ozil. Who has City beat this year then that everyone considers them a contender, one convincing win against a United team that was in a deep slump at home. Liverpool beat united and was ahead of them in table they don't count as a big win, City beats United and all of sudden everyone talks them up as the greatest thing since the invention of the internet. In there other big match against Munich at home they were mauled. Who has City beaten?

City are contenders because the core of their team has already won a league title two years ago & a F.A Cup. They've gone & improved the squad since then, that's why they are contenders. Arsenal beat United and you are a geniune threat in the EPL.

Let me guess, you still disagree with this & just continue arguing over something someone has said. Any bad word said on here against Arsenal & it's slaughtered. You haven't won anything as of yet, christ if the title was over in november, man u would not have 20 titles to their name and everton probably would of been relegated years back with their bad starts.

Just be patient, enjoy your teams form & just chill out. 10 games in & you expect us to just sit here n laud arsenal left right n centre. We've admitted youve beaten good teams, stopped talking about squad depth & your still unhappy. christ, u gonna be like this if you actually win something?

socal1976 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I wonder how much longer the Arsenal critics will keep up the charade of they have not beaten anyone yet? Napoli, Dortmund, Liverpool, Spurs I suppose none of whom qualify as strong teams. Dortmund got lucky at the emirates last time around scoring a late goal against the run of play, an arsenal would be goal being cleared off the line and a Cazorla shot going of the crossbar. This time we returned the favor.

Well of course you've beaten someone big now - Dortmund last night.

That's it though. Tottenham, Liverpool, and Napoli at home aren't big wins unless you have more modest aspirations - something like top 4 and last 16 or QFs in the Champions League.

Napoli is the number 2 ranked team in the Serie A, Liverpool was second in the table when we beat them. Spurs are not a big team that is for sure I won't argue there, but in recent years this is the best the Spurs have been in recent memory and we beat them without Ozil. Who has City beat this year then that everyone considers them a contender, one convincing win against a United team that was in a deep slump at home.  Liverpool beat united and was ahead of them in table they don't count as a big win, City beats United and all of sudden everyone talks them up as the greatest thing since the invention of the internet. In there other big match against Munich at home they were mauled. Who has City beaten?

Why are we talking about City? I thought the debate was about Arsenal. Who have only beaten one big team this year, and in the league their biggest test will come on Sunday. Win that, and sure, they're contenders for the league because they would have beaten a fellow contender away.

John wrote:City are contenders because the core of their team has already won a league title two years ago & a F.A Cup. They've gone & improved the squad since then, that's why they are contenders. Arsenal beat United and you are a geniune threat in the EPL.

Let me guess, you still disagree with this & just continue arguing over something someone has said. Any bad word said on here against Arsenal & it's slaughtered. You haven't won anything as of yet, christ if the title was over in november, man u would not have 20 titles to their name and everton probably would of been relegated years back with their bad starts.

Just be patient, enjoy your teams form & just chill out. 10 games in & you expect us to just sit here n laud arsenal left right n centre. We've admitted youve beaten good teams, stopped talking about squad depth & your still unhappy. christ, u gonna be like this if you actually win something?

You seem to think I believe Arsenal should hold a parade after 10 games or give themselves a trophy. What I dispute is this nonsensical claim that Arsenal are not contenders, the people who say this are either don't understand football or don't understand the meaning of the word contender. I actually think that either City, Chelsea, or Arsenal are good enough to win the league. I wouldn't be surprised if any of these three won, and I think it is pretty close between the three. I am quite chill and quite happy, I just don't take kindly to being called "stupid" and I am happy you are taking a more restrained tone in this post. And we can discuss the particulars of your position. Sure Arsenal has not won a trophy in 8 years, but what does Arsenal's failures in 06, 07,08 have to do with this team? Nothing, all we can do is look at how the team has played in recent memory and where they sit now. And my contention is with this nonsense that they haven't beaten anyone and that they are not contenders. Of the last 5 teams who were in the lead after ten games I believe 2 went on to win it and no team finished lower than third. In the last 12 months Arsenal have won 11 more points than any other team in the premier league, and they just won in one of the toughest places to play in Europe, if not for an atrocious an idiotic referee, who got relegated after the Arsenal match they would be 8 points clear after 10 games. This tells me they are a real contender, not that they are lock or that they will win the league for sure, most  of the season is still left to be played.

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I wonder how much longer the Arsenal critics will keep up the charade of they have not beaten anyone yet? Napoli, Dortmund, Liverpool, Spurs I suppose none of whom qualify as strong teams. Dortmund got lucky at the emirates last time around scoring a late goal against the run of play, an arsenal would be goal being cleared off the line and a Cazorla shot going of the crossbar. This time we returned the favor.

Well of course you've beaten someone big now - Dortmund last night.

That's it though. Tottenham, Liverpool, and Napoli at home aren't big wins unless you have more modest aspirations - something like top 4 and last 16 or QFs in the Champions League.

Napoli is the number 2 ranked team in the Serie A, Liverpool was second in the table when we beat them. Spurs are not a big team that is for sure I won't argue there, but in recent years this is the best the Spurs have been in recent memory and we beat them without Ozil. Who has City beat this year then that everyone considers them a contender, one convincing win against a United team that was in a deep slump at home.  Liverpool beat united and was ahead of them in table they don't count as a big win, City beats United and all of sudden everyone talks them up as the greatest thing since the invention of the internet. In there other big match against Munich at home they were mauled. Who has City beaten?

Why are we talking about City? I thought the debate was about Arsenal. Who have only beaten one big team this year, and in the league their biggest test will come on Sunday. Win that, and sure, they're contenders for the league because they would have beaten a fellow contender away.

Again they are contenders right now, one game in Manchester doesn't make them or break them as such. See my above post. Saying someone is a contender for the title and saying they are going to win it for sure is not the same thing. In my mind they are one of three contenders right now. To me United who have 1 point out of there three biggest matches in the league and are 8 points back are the ones who need this game and have to prove that they are contenders. I don't care if they won it last year, this is this year and for most of this season they have looked pretty awful. If United lose they are pretty much out of the race in November going 11 points back. If Arsenal lose in my mind they are still contenders.

Arsenal are definitely contenders this season. Their squad is good enough, so is their manager. Not to mention that their form has been excellent for the past year.
Whether they win the league or not is of course an entire different matter, but they are serious contenders this season no doubt.
Even a loss against United on Sunday won't change that.

J.Benson II wrote:Arsenal are definitely contenders this season. Their squad is good enough, so is their manager. Not to mention that their form has been excellent for the past year.
Whether they win the league or not is of course an entire different matter, but they are serious contenders this season no doubt.
Even a loss against United on Sunday won't change that.

Succinct and to the point and I am happy to agree with this post. A number of players (ie gibbs, ramsey, mertesacker, and Giroud) are much improved and they have added Ozil to last years fourth place team making them a serious threat. A team that is 14-0-1 in their 15 road games is a team that can and will contend. Does it mean they are going to win it, no, they could win it or they may fail to. But they are one of a small select group of top contenders for league honors. Nothing more and nothing less.

Arsenal 1-0 Marseille - Wilshere - 30 seconds

Arsenal look in the mood, switched off at the back a few times though

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I wonder how much longer the Arsenal critics will keep up the charade of they have not beaten anyone yet? Napoli, Dortmund, Liverpool, Spurs I suppose none of whom qualify as strong teams. Dortmund got lucky at the emirates last time around scoring a late goal against the run of play, an arsenal would be goal being cleared off the line and a Cazorla shot going of the crossbar. This time we returned the favor.

Well of course you've beaten someone big now - Dortmund last night.

That's it though. Tottenham, Liverpool, and Napoli at home aren't big wins unless you have more modest aspirations - something like top 4 and last 16 or QFs in the Champions League.

Napoli is the number 2 ranked team in the Serie A, Liverpool was second in the table when we beat them. Spurs are not a big team that is for sure I won't argue there, but in recent years this is the best the Spurs have been in recent memory and we beat them without Ozil. Who has City beat this year then that everyone considers them a contender, one convincing win against a United team that was in a deep slump at home.  Liverpool beat united and was ahead of them in table they don't count as a big win, City beats United and all of sudden everyone talks them up as the greatest thing since the invention of the internet. In there other big match against Munich at home they were mauled. Who has City beaten?

Why are we talking about City? I thought the debate was about Arsenal. Who have only beaten one big team this year, and in the league their biggest test will come on Sunday. Win that, and sure, they're contenders for the league because they would have beaten a fellow contender away.

Make your mind up. In a different thread you argued that the EPL was the best league because it had 4/5 big teams who are all challenging for the title yet now you are saying the EPL has 3 big teams (city, utd, chelsea).

Does the EPL have 4/5/6 big teams like you said in a different thread and if that is the case that means aresenal's victories over spurs and liverpool count as victories over big teams or does the epl only have 3 big teams in which case can you take back your comments on the other thread about the epl being the best league because it has 5/6 big teams who can all win the league.

Such a terrible penalty by Ozil   Weren't a penalty anyway was outside box

Why didn't Giroud take the penalty?

Looks like Eto'o has an injury, could be lengthy spell out!

Barcelona struggling at Ajax without Messi

I do enjoy watching Barcelona
lose