OVER -TRAINING - genuine reason or lazy cop-out

Just been reading about Mikkel Kessler's belief that he over-trained for Froch II and this was why he was unable to finish Carl when he had him hurt in the 11th & 12th rounds (his words not mine). He claims he was doing too much sparring with Groves and especially Cleverley in the build-up and this was why he was able to be the stronger finisher like he was in the first fight. The up-shot being that he hasn't ruled out a possible third clash with Carl although reading between the lines I'm not sure he really does want it (just the pay day)

We also heard a few years ago that over-training was the reason why Hatton failed so miserably in his fight with Manny. Think Mayweather Snr was blithering on about it although how he'd know this is beyond me given that he only appears to have spent 45 minutes with Ricky.

Now, given the improvements in training camps over the years especially when it comes to having fitness coaches whose job is to ensure a fighter comes to the ring at his very best, is it really a valid excuse for a someone (especially fighters near the top of their divisions) to say that they over-trained or are they just blowing smoke up our holes?

Kessler is a Viking, a true warrior.

Strongback wrote:Kessler is a Viking, a true warrior.

You're an idiot

Strongback wrote:Kessler is a Viking, a true warrior.

maybe he went overboard on the mushroom induced Berserker fury

To his credit, he is a Viking and has always been known as such.

If you get two great fighters together in the ring, it tends to turn into a trench and a war breaks out with one warrior standing.

I have these guys 1 & 2 in the division based at SMW because they pull more fans, better to watch, exciting, warriors, beat great opposition. Ward is a ghost. Where is he?! He never fights and when he does he is soooooooo boring. Never travels, don't pull in fans, avoids rematches and the like. Its pathetic.

Ward the warrior? Doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in Frochs and Kesslers sentence.

True gents and true trench fighters at that.

mobilemaster8 wrote:To his credit, he is a Viking and has always been known as such.

If you get two great fighters together in the ring, it tends to turn into a trench and a war breaks out with one warrior standing.

I have these guys 1 & 2 in the division based at SMW because they pull more fans, better to watch, exciting, warriors, beat great opposition. Ward is a ghost. Where is he?! He never fights and when he does he is soooooooo boring. Never travels, don't pull in fans, avoids rematches and the like. Its pathetic.

Ward the warrior? Doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in Frochs and Kesslers sentence.

True gents and true trench fighters at that.

That's lovely mobile but what's it got to do with over-training?

i guess if you look at other sports such as swimming, cycling etc they tend to train to peak at the rioght time

so if you miss the peak either by undertraining to obvious detriment or by overtraining either a specific area such as strength in someone like Bruno's case, of just simply not allowing the body to recover to an optimum point.

it seems to be a fine balance, though i can never be accused of over training i suspect!

I think Kessler is trying to convince himself more than anyone else.

Anyone could see Froch was the stronger of the two, and that although Kessler showed a lot of heart and boxing skills the truth was Froch was walking through his best shots, certainly recovering quickly from them, whereas he had to back peddle to survive a number of times.

I'd say it is just a case of him starting to decline physically, Froch just had more hunger, stamina and punch resistance and only the fact that Kessler is maybe the cleverer boxer kept him from getting stopped.

Sound like these guys are gearing up for a rematch....

I agree with you Rodders. Got a lot of time for Kessler, but I think he's kidding himself on this one. You could see when they were interviewed at ringside and a rematch was mooted that Kessler visibly shrank and you knew there and then he wasn't prepared to put himself through that again.

I appreciate that he's a proud man and doesn't want to be remembered for being a loser but I think a third fight ends inside the distance and will be a massive anti-climax.

A peak Kessler is a better fighter than a peak Froch. He just got old.

These guys are Warriors though, full of heart. Leave everything in the ring - prepared to go to the trenches and the toughest man will be left standing. Kessler and froch exchanged words between two warriors and the British Bulldog and the Viking Warrior will go to the trenches again, have a war and leave it all in the ring for a third time!

JabMachineMK2 wrote:These guys are Warriors though, full of heart. Leave everything in the ring - prepared to go to the trenches and the toughest man will be left standing. Kessler and froch exchanged words between two warriors and the British Bulldog and the Viking Warrior will go to the trenches again, have a war and leave it all in the ring for a third time!

I will come over there and punch you in the throat if you don't stop it

Strongback wrote:A peak Kessler is a better fighter than a peak Froch.  He just got old.

froch is 2 years older than kessler and has had just as tough if not tougher career, so im not buying that

They do say training has 3 essential parts

1. the training
2. nutrition
3. rest

i think it's possible you can reach peak too soon and hit a point where if you push it your body can't cope. i will say however that while over training is very real, someone like kessler at this stage and with his knowledge shouldn't be doing it.

track athletes peak at olympic games for example. it's a reason why so many records are broken, everyone is at their absolute peak. you don't hear ennis-hill saying she over trained.

OasisBFC wrote:They do say training has 3 essential parts

1. the training
2. nutrition
3. rest

i think it's possible you can reach peak too soon and hit a point where if you push it your body can't cope. i will say however that while over training is very real, someone like kessler at this stage and with his knowledge shouldn't be doing it.track athletes peak at olympic games for example. it's a reason why so many records are broken, everyone is at their absolute peak. you don't hear ennis-hill saying she over trained.

Thank You

I think the issue is that Kessler probably bit off more than he could chew taking the Froch fight. Froch somehow is ascending and producing career best performances (like a Warrior eh Dave?) and Kessler, although been operating at a very high level - hasn't faced anyone like Froch for a while so maybe he anticipated he already had his number or just didn't put in the work needed.

I think overtraining can be a legitimate reaosn for poor performance, but in Kessler's case he was likely worn out by Froch's workrate. His age and the amount of wars he's been in played their part. It's not like he flat lined down the stretch. He was too tired to drop Froch in 11. No shame there.

i think more often than not over training is a excuse made by fighters who are unwilling to admit they were beaten by the better man, may be wrong but didn't hatton use this against manny?

it can be a legitimate reason but seeing though the majority of boxers have similar timed training camps which they have had many times before i doubt there really would that much difference unless they had extended it by a fair few weeks (which i dont think kessler did)

Fights are won and lost in training, so although over training is a genuine thing, it shouldn't take anything away from a loss. You lost cus you put too much work in? I admire your ethic but at the highest level it's surely as dumb as losing because you didn't put enough work in.

eddyfightfan wrote:

Strongback wrote:A peak Kessler is a better fighter than a peak Froch.  He just got old.

froch is 2 years older than kessler and has had just as tough if not tougher career, so im not buying that

Carl turned pro at 24, Kessler 19. That's five more years on the clock.

Kessler has also been less active due to injuries.

The clincher for me is that Kessler beat Froch previously.

The Kessler that fought Froch the first time was in my opinion already fading when compared to the Kessler that Calzaghe beat. Joe took his 0 and had to fight out of his skin that night in what was possibly the best performance by a British fighter in my living memory.

If anyone has ever trained properly then you would know that over training is very much real.

However, as stated above, should a seasoned professional like Kessler be doing it? I could appreciate it if he was a novice but he should know what he's doing by now

Kessler is too experienced to over train, so whilst over training can happen, it didn't happen for this fight.

If you are happy to accept Kessler was over trained for Froch, then it's probably reasonable to accetp Carls excuses for the first fight.

No, he has a team of professionals around him and should understand his own body by now, but accidents happen and sometimes you don't quite realise. Sometimes I get to the gym feeling great and realise after 10 minutes I shouldn't be there, my body isn't right and needs time off.

Only Kessler knows If he is overtrained or not...

Very easy to leave it all in the gym.........The human body is a very complex instrument.........

Some days you can feel great and lift poorly.......Other days you can feel like garbage and beat your best lifts...

Sometimes the symptoms of overtraining can be very subtle.......

All this professional guff........

Professionals should have seen 9/11 coming or Pearl harbor...

Professionals get it wrong sometimes..

Jay Cutler says there'e no such thing as over training just under eating. Not sure about that myself.


After 12 weeks of proper hardcore training most people will be shattered. I'm talking proper training.


I'm still of the opinion Kessler is too ring worn for Froch. He had just turned 19 when he had his first pro fight.


Only Calzaghe and now Ward have been better than Kessler in recent times in my view.

I agree with you...Kessler lost because Froch was better on the night..

But overtraining does happen with the best of them........

Cory Everson reckons she was overtrained when she won her 6 olympias......Performances do fluctuate in all sports........

You can have professionals guiding you but they don't know If you're overtrained because everybody is different....

Cory Everson that brings back memories. Jeff her husband had the know how and guided her though, he knew his gear. Everybody back then was training to the Arnie principles. Split routine twice a day, 6 days a week. In the 80's we were doing 20-25 sets per bodypart. Steve Michalek was doing 100 sets a body part. What he took to get through that killed him.

Was listening to old Dan Duchaine tapes recently. Different times. He's dead too.

I think they were all overtrained back then........Then again their steroid intake outdid mine probably by about 10-1........

I remember Everson was really p****d that Lenda Murray took her record of olympias..

Everson will always be the golden girl of bodybuilding.  The last great one you might actual think about doing.  Off the gear her body must have been superb.

She gave me a boner in Double impact...........