Italian GP Thread - Contains Spoilers of Race/Qualifying & Practice - Sponsored by Dolmio - When'sa your Dolmio Day?

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

This weekend is the final European race of the 2013 Formula One season and the home race for both Ferrari and tire supplier Pirelli. We are, of course, talking about the Italian Grand Prix at the legendary Autodromo di Monza, located on the outskirts of Milan. The track was built in 1922 and has hosted the Italian GP every year since 1950, with the sole exception of 1980, when the race was held at nearby Imola.

It’s the fastest track on the calendar with an average speed in excess of 150 mph. Additionally, cars exceed 200 mph at four different points on the lap, so the combination of straight-line speed and braking stability is the key for race engineers and drivers.

A single lap measures 3.6 miles, and with drivers covering some 53 laps during the race, the total distance of the race is about 190 miles. As always it is a compromise in terms of setup, though lower drag than normal is favored due to the long straights and high track efficiency; Monza, alongside Monaco, is one of the two races where teams will often use track-specific aerodynamic components.

Looking at the weather forecast for the weekend, temperatures will be hot and there is a chance of a storm on both days. Pirelli is bringing its P Zero Orange hard tires and P Zero White medium tires: the same used for the previous Belgian Grand Prix.

Going into the weekend, Red Bull Racing’s Sebastian Vettel leads the Drivers’ Championship with 197 points. Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso is in second with 151 points while Lewis Hamilton of Mercedes AMG is in third with 139 points. In the Constructors’ Championship, Red Bull Racing commands 312 points versus the 235 points of Mercedes AMG and the 218 points of Ferrari.

Weather Forecast:http://www.weather-forecast.com/locations/Monza/forecasts/latest

Source:MotorAuthority.com

[Trebs]

Was hoping for the Ferrari cars to do well today but that was a snoozefest. Hamilton and Raikkonen both put in decent drives despite problems, Nico Hulkenberg was the driver of the day for me. Vettel will surely win the world championship now, needs at least two DNFs and Alonso needs to get podiums for the rest of the season. The others are out of contention.

[bogbrush]

Horner, `we had issues & problems throughout the race with both drivers`.

 

Well we saw evidence of the short shifting. Did he claim anything else? I don't think so (other than Seb's self-inflicted flat spot).

Worth pointing out that the flat spot came about because of GENUINE COMPETITION between the RB drivers. We saw something a little different from Ferrari when Massa laid out the carpet for Alonso.

[Trebs]

Horner, `we had issues & problems throughout the race with both drivers`.

 

Well we saw evidence of the short shifting. Did he claim anything else? I don't think so (other than Seb's self-inflicted flat spot).

Worth pointing out that the flat spot came about because of GENUINE COMPETITION between the RB drivers. We saw something a little different from Ferrari when Massa laid out the carpet for Alonso.

Of course Massa's going to let Alonso past. He is no longer in contention for the WDC. WHEN he is (at the start of the season) they are treated equally.

[SteveG]

Nico Hulkenberg was the driver of the day for me

The hulk is good and its a pity Sauber didnt work out. Actually had him down for a Ferrari drive next year.

[bogbrush]

Horner, `we had issues & problems throughout the race with both drivers`.

 

Well we saw evidence of the short shifting. Did he claim anything else? I don't think so (other than Seb's self-inflicted flat spot).

Worth pointing out that the flat spot came about because of GENUINE COMPETITION between the RB drivers. We saw something a little different from Ferrari when Massa laid out the carpet for Alonso.

Of course Massa's going to let Alonso past. He is no longer in contention for the WDC. WHEN he is (at the start of the season) they are treated equally.

Quite right. How exceptional it is then, that RB allow Webber - also out of intention - to genuinely race Vettel, to the extent that it resulted in compromising Vettels first stint.

However I doubt very much that Massa gets a full at any stage. We know Fernando only plays on the basis of being #1, that became obvious at McLaren.

[Trebs]

Horner, `we had issues & problems throughout the race with both drivers`.

 

Well we saw evidence of the short shifting. Did he claim anything else? I don't think so (other than Seb's self-inflicted flat spot).

Worth pointing out that the flat spot came about because of GENUINE COMPETITION between the RB drivers. We saw something a little different from Ferrari when Massa laid out the carpet for Alonso.

Of course Massa's going to let Alonso past. He is no longer in contention for the WDC. WHEN he is (at the start of the season) they are treated equally.

Quite right. How exceptional it is then, that RB allow Webber - also out of intention - to genuinely race Vettel, to the extent that it resulted in compromising Vettels first stint.

Am I missing something? Didn't Massa overtake Webber on the first corner?

[Guest]

Vettel had gearbox issues....pull the other one

[bogbrush]

I think you might be. Massa got the run on Webber because he had to pull out of his attack on Vettel as he ran out of road. That attack, though, led to Vettels lock-up and flat spot.

[bogbrush]

Vettel had gearbox issues....pull the other one

Well we saw Webbers issues on screen. Nobody said they were chronic, just a defect. Not sure why it's so worthy of cynicism, it's no big deal.

[GSC]

Nah he was shortshifting for fun. And RB took his gearbox apart for the hell of it overnight

Seriously why don't some of you tape a picture of Hamilton over your TVs instead of watching and inevitably moaning.

[Guest]

When did I mention Hamilton in my last two posts? Just pointing out the ridiculous garbage that comes out of RB, your the fools for believing it. Vettel had issues.....delusional

To make things even easier for Vettel, is that in Singapore the Mercedes will be their biggest threat on maximum down force n Alonso will struggle because the Ferrari isn't as competitive with the higher down force. Therefore extending his lead even further. Championship should be over by the end of the Indian GP.

[SteveG]

Checkout the Mclaren caps - Whitmarsh

[bogbrush]

So...... It's stupid or believing what we saw on screen? Oh ok.

[GSC]

So...... It's stupid or believing what we saw on screen? Oh ok.

Logic has no place on this board after a Vettel win don't.be.silly

[beninho]

Red bull can say they allow team mates to fight but it's not going to happen because mark Webber is not and never has been that good. It will be the same next year when riciardo won't challenge either. Vettell is good just unsure how good.

[GSC]

Vettel is a great driver on the verge of ATG status

[Guest]

Webber had issues but to make out Vettel did too is just embarrassing. They make out they have issues in nearly every dominant race win, when their banging in fastest laps & leading by such a margin, that the second place driver is not even in the picture frame. Yeah, I bet every other team wish they had their issues.

GSC - we`re allowed to praise Hamilton, yet you come out with all this garbage about a** licking him, look at you with Vettel. We say something bad about him n you go on the defensive and don't like it. Hypocritical. Your not even German, why you would watch a sport that is having the life sucked out of it by such dominance, and enjoy it, is quite strange.

[Bull]

You don't have to be German to like Vettel   

I support Ferrari. I'm not Italian, does that make it wrong that I don't support a British driver?

[SteveG]

Vettel is a great driver on the verge of ATG status

My arse.

[CaledonianCraig]

Red bull can say they allow team mates to fight but it's not going to happen because mark Webber is not and never has been that good. It will be the same next year when riciardo won't challenge either. Vettell is good just unsure how good.

Spot on. The Red Bull is the best car on the grid. Anybody debating otherwise need to have their brain checked. Evidence of that is that primary Red Bull driver Vettel has a 53 point lead over primary Ferrari driver Alonso and back-up Red Bull driver Webber has a 51 point lead over back-up Ferrari driver Massa. That tells us the gulf in class between the cars.

[GSC]

Youngest triple WC in history, on course for 4 in a row

Not great my arse

[beninho]

Just because some one wins in a car so much better then the rest does not make him an all time great. Alonso took on Schumacher in his Ferrari. Red bull have spent loads of money and blown the rest out of the water. And to be fair vetell comes across as a bit of a Muppet.

[CaledonianCraig]

Just because some one wins in a car so much better then the rest does not make him an all time great. Alonso took on Schumacher in his Ferrari. Red bull have spent loads of money and blown the rest out of the water. And to be fair vetell comes across as a bit of a Muppet.

Red Bull have Adrian Newey whilst Ferrari do not.

[beninho]

No one really wins titles in uncompetitive cars. But apart from Schumacher Ferrari days I don't recall such a gulf in performances of the best cars. Though Pirelli called it when they said more durable tyres will mean watching red bull drive off into the distance. Feel sorry for the teams that based design on the initial tyres.

[Guest]

@bull - obviously, I know that, but the way GSC defends him, makes me wonder Whether he was born in Heppenheim.

ATG - must be having a laugh. Driving a car, where you don't see another driver is called a Sunday stroll in the countryside, not the pinnacle of motor-RACING.

[GSC]

A. I don't see why you'd have to be German to like Vettel.
B. I don't see why it matters anyway

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

So it seems the average Sebastien Vettel has just lucked himself to his 4th world title then... 

[GSC]

The FIA must ban that double diffuser soon Olly, don't lose hope

[GSC]

*Sorry Herr Olly

[bogbrush]

A. I don't see why you'd have to be German to like Vettel.
B. I don't see why it matters anyway

Patriotism is for idiots. I have had this with Craig on the tennis boards.

[bogbrush]

Red bull can say they allow team mates to fight but it's not going to happen because mark Webber is not and never has been that good. It will be the same next year when riciardo won't challenge either. Vettell is good just unsure how good.

Red Bull just allowed Webber to push so hard on the start as to cause Vettel to compromise his whole first stint.

When are you guys going to see this? You seem blinded by hatred. I'd say either roll with it or leave F1 lone for the next 5/6 years because this guys going to be at the top of this sport for a long time; he wont in it all, but he'll win more than the rest.

[beninho]

Webber had his usual bad start and lost a place. Don't think he put much pressure on vetell. I don't see any hatred. I don't think anyone is not saying he is a good driver. It's just that's it's hard to declare him as a all time great when he wins so many races in the best car and by the same way. I feel that there are others that would have had similar success if in the same car at this time. Obviously we will never know. Its not great for f1 though. Same as it wasn't great when Schumacher was in his prime. Though he did take a pig of a car and helped turn it round. Hopefully next year with the changes it may bring themselves closer. Though it may not.

[GSC]

Don't get me wrong, I'll support England when they play football etc, but F1 is a sport for individuals ultimately. 

I find Vettel much more likable than Hamiltons bipolar act or Alonsos dictatorship. Kimis probably my favorite driver though, at the risk of sounding Finnish.

[CaledonianCraig]

A. I don't see why you'd have to be German to like Vettel.
B. I don't see why it matters anyway

Patriotism is for idiots. I have had this with Craig on the tennis boards.

Gloryhunting is pretty sad as well you know. Worst sort of supporter is a glory hunter.

[GSC]

If you can't accept Vettel as a great driver at this point then you're biased. You can Jenson Button your way to one WDC in the best car, but almost 4 years in row? Thats an extraordinarily thin argument against him.

ATG status will come in time I'm sure. He's only 26 and I'd make it more likely he breaks Schumis record than doesn't.

[bogbrush]

A. I don't see why you'd have to be German to like Vettel.
B. I don't see why it matters anyway

Patriotism is for idiots. I have had this with Craig on the tennis boards.

Gloryhunting is pretty sad as well you know. Worst sort of supporter is a glory hunter.

What a stupid comment.  

[bogbrush]

Webber had his usual bad start and lost a place. Don't think he put much pressure on vetell. I don't see any hatred. I don't think anyone is not saying he is a good driver. It's just that's it's hard to declare him as a all time great when he wins so many races in the best car and by the same way. I feel that there are others that would have had similar success if in the same car at this time. Obviously we will never know. Its not great for f1 though. Same as it wasn't great when Schumacher was in his prime. Though he did take a pig of a car and helped turn it round. Hopefully next year with the changes it may bring themselves closer. Though it may not.

Webber had a great start, better than Vettel. That's why he was close but not quite, then had to back off.

Honestly, did you not watch the race?

[CaledonianCraig]

Really? I wondered why you'd slowed up on the tennis pages. Has your support for Roger diminished now that titles are a distant dream and when exactly did you become a huge Vettel fan?

[beninho]

F1 is an individual sport. So nationality should not come into it. I am a Brit though cannot stand di resta and not a big fan of button. Though like Hamilton. Love Kimi though. Like Ferrari because it is a Ferrari though and whoever drives it.

All time great is just a nonsense anyway. As the same with any sport tests changed over years you cannot judge. He is clearly one of the best in this though if he was driving when Schumacher was winning everything he may nit have done aswell. No one knows as you cannot compare.

[bogbrush]

Really? I wondered why you'd slowed up on the tennis pages. Has your support for Roger diminished now that titles are a distant dream and when exactly did you become a huge Vettel fan?

No, you just bored me stiff worshipping Murray after Wimbledon. Thankfully it was brief.

Regarding Vettel, I hoped for Webber over him in 2010 very much. I'm converted by his brilliance, I despise the self-centred arrogance and betrayal by Alonso, and you guys make me laugh so much I can't help but like him to win now. That clear enough for you?

[bogbrush]

F1 is an individual sport. So nationality should not come into it. I am a Brit though cannot stand di resta and not a big fan of button. Though like Hamilton. Love Kimi though. Like Ferrari because it is a Ferrari though and whoever drives it.

All time great is just a nonsense anyway. As the same with any sport tests changed over years you cannot judge. He is clearly one of the best in this though if he was driving when Schumacher was winning everything he may nit have done aswell. No one knows as you cannot compare.

10/10.

[beninho]

If Webber had such a good start why was he 3rd when he started second? He only lost one place which for Webber is a damn good start come to think of it!

[bogbrush]

If Webber had such a good start why was he 3rd when he started second? He only lost one place which for Webber is a damn good start come to think of it!

He lost a place dicing for the lead. It happens. Honestly, see if you can find a re-run analysis - I promise you it's how it happened. I'd not say it or a laugh.

[CaledonianCraig]

Nope the glory is no longer there so support has waned eh? Tut tut. I support my player/team through thick and thin through the good times and the bad. Glory hunters attach themselves to sportsmen/teams guaranteed winning as they love the bragging rights it thinks it earns them but once the winning stops the 'support' stops.

[Guest]

@GSC - like your Finnish remark, we`re just having a laugh.

Vettel is a good driver, no doubt but he's not going to become an ATG until he starts winning races in different situations & has to showcase his racing ability among the field in an inferior car, like his rivals endure. Even the vast majority of the paddock/journalists don't rate him as an ATG because of the Newey impact & an abysmally inept teammate. Winning four in a row, in this car and in this manner, actually makes the fans despise him even more, why do suspect he gets booed on the podium? He might be breaking records left, right & centre but he doesn't have the respect of his rivals, even the admiration from the paddock or the crowd, even after what he's achieved in the sport. Says everything about his standing in comparison to the greats of the past.

One thing is for certain, he will definitely win six or seven WDC now, especially if Newey & Vettel stay together.

[bogbrush]

Oh my God Craig, you're playing the "who's the bestest fan" card?

Are we back in school? What next? Your Dads bigger than mine?

Beyond  

[CaledonianCraig]

Oh my God Craig, you're playing the "who's the bestest fan" card?

Are we back in school? What next? Your Dads bigger than mine?

Beyond  

No we're playing your game remember? Questioning people's reason for supporting a sportsman/team.

[bogbrush]

Oh my God Craig, you're playing the "who's the bestest fan" card?

Are we back in school? What next? Your Dads bigger than mine?

Beyond  

No we're playing your game remember? Questioning people's reason for supporting a sportsman/team.

No I did not.

I observed patriotism is for idiots (which is a fact regardless of sport) and that I've had this debate with you on tennis. The rest is down to you not reading / understanding properly, which is a common event.

[CaledonianCraig]

Yes you picked up on patriotism for supporting a player/team. And if it was aimed at me as my name was used then you are sadly off the mark. Patriotism for some may be a reason/cause to support someone or some team and one you disagree with - fair enough. Glory hunting in my opinion is pretty damn worse as it is only about what one can get out of it for ones self.

[bogbrush]

Yeah, I don't watch sport for other people's benefit. I'm just in it for myself.

I feel so ashamed.

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