England winger a wanted man

Marlon Yarde is out of contract next summer and the vultures are circling already. Rumours are that Tigers, Quins and Saracens are all interested in the London Irish man. I'd assume Bath will look to offer him a deal as well (they've stolen every other LI back going).

With Monye getting on at Quins Yarde would be a natural replacement, Sarries will be aware that Wyles and Strettle aren't getting any younger with Tigers looking at Hamilton, Camacho, Goneva and Thompstone all out of contract next summer with other vultures probably looking at the last two there.

Sarries will be keen, they've still got space in their salary cap

Sad for London Irish to lose yet another quality player. Can't see them getting back up to the upper echelons of the Premiership at this rate.

If LI start well to the season and keep him in the first team they might convince him to sign on for another couple of years. It's not like he's being ignored internationally whilst playing at the Madstad.

I have no idea how Sarries are signing so much talent and are still under. There's some ridiculous resources there and that's coming from a Tigers fan.

and coming from a Bath fan, even I appreciate the irony!

Maybe he will come to the mighty Warriors. The team that he single handedly beat at the weekend. All joking aside LI had one and half chances all match and scored two tries (both by Yarde - one single handed and the other a break out with involvement from other wide backs). Warriors had about twenty chances and scored two tries.
How much was down to us being inept, or fantastic Irish defence, or a mixture of both, I don't know?
Who should be more worried? Warriors for being so dominant and losing, or Irish for creating so little? Again time will tell, but I suspect that it will as ever turn out to be us.

I heard rumours that a few clubs were keen to buy him of the last year of his contract over the summer but he said he owed it to Irish to repay the faith in him by staying another season. I would imagine if Irish have a tough season it could be harder to hang on to him for a second time.

He will probably go to Sarries for the iPad and trip to Oktoberfest, Leicester for the love of the game or Bath for the Georgian architecture...!

Please Quins actually get out the cash and go for a player for once.

I was just thinking last week he'd be perfect at Quins to replace Monye as a like for like. Especially with Walker/Chisholm on the other wing.

But then we also have Tom Williams, Sam Smith and Ollie Lindsey Hague as well...

Bathman_in_London wrote:I heard rumours that a few clubs were keen to buy him of the last year of his contract over the summer but he said he owed it to Irish to repay the faith in him by staying another season. I would imagine if Irish have a tough season it could be harder to hang on to him for a second time.

He will probably go to Sarries for the iPad and trip to Oktoberfest, Leicester for the love of the game or Bath for the Georgian architecture...!

Or Quins!!  

Ye can all keep yer grubby little paws off the boy, he's going nowhere.

In all seriousness he has to have RWC2015 in his sights, and if we get near to the new year and we are in a dogfight then I wouldn't blame him for moving on as he can't be playing in the Championship if he has England ambitions.  If we are closer to mid table than the bottom at that point, I think he might stay, as I understand he has a good relationship with Brian Smith and seems to love the club too.

Sorry to be pedantic, but lots of people are calling him Marlon. It is Marland. Just a bit of a bugbear of mine.

Additionally, Wuss fans are really exaggerating the difference between the two sides at the weekend. If it wasn't for two forward passes Irish may well have got four tries and the bonus point. Wuss got close to the line on a couple of occasions but were strangled in defence and generally handled in the pack by the Irish forwards.

I hope Yarde doesn't leave - he is potentially world class. I won't blame him if he does and I fully expect to be without him next year.

Surely he's got to be playing HC rugby? or some high profile Amlin games at least? How many of the EPS won't play any Euro rugby this year? Not many I reckon.

If this article was called "Australia winger a wanted man" it would probably have a completely different theme  

I was just wondering what the point is in having any salary cap in the AP if all the talent goes to the wealthiest clubs?

Notch wrote:If this article was called "Australia winger a wanted man" it would probably have a completely different theme  

I genuinely thought this would be something to do with Matt Banahan.

I reckon he'll go to Tigers. Would be a smart move for him in my opinion - working with the likes of Youngs,Flood,Allen,Tuilagi and Tait.

Formerly known as Sam Wyles is used far more at full back. Our wingers are Short,Tagicakibau,Wilson,Strettle and Ashton with Nathan Earle in the academy. I see no need for Saracens to sign Yarde.

Bathman in London I am not sure if you are joking or not. It's not just Ipads and octoberfest.

Saracens can offer players HC rugby;) , London is very close by, international recognition (at last), plus being a title contender and playing with a good set of players help.

Bath offered a retirement home for Tigers but now it's become a London Irish haven.

I would say Bath and Tigers would be favourites.

Quins would be foolish to look to sign up Yarde. They need to beef up their pack.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Ye can all keep yer grubby little paws off the boy, he's going nowhere.

In all seriousness he has to have RWC2015 in his sights, and if we get near to the new year and we are in a dogfight then I wouldn't blame him for moving on as he can't be playing in the Championship if he has England ambitions.  If we are closer to mid table than the bottom at that point, I think he might stay, as I understand he has a good relationship with Brian Smith and seems to love the club too.

On the other hand Ozzy, he may be persuaded that he got into the EPS with Irish and he is best placed to stay there in order to make that world cup squad.

beschocked, it was very much tongue in cheek, although similar comments have been made to 'explain' signings at one point or other!

Seriously though, if he plays for England in the AI's/6N, he may decide that he is better served playing in more games (and the big ones in particular) rather than being rotated in a larger squad and getting less game time.

Agree with that bathman in london. Yarde will also shine like a beacon in the current LI side.

He can also blame his team mates, especially forwards when he's not scoring enough tries! Always good to have an excuse up the sleeve ready for use!

Maes, the fact he still is at LI and not at a bigger club is testament to the competitive nature of the league. Glaws mooted as top 4 contenders losing at home to relegation tipped Sale shows it's competitive and in that regard the salary cap is working. However, the salary cap was meant to police clubs spending and avoid another Richmond and it is working in that respect as well.

Beshocked Yarde would offer more than the wingers you list and Sarries like size on their backline.

I think Tigers will only move for him if other wingers we have cannot be retained and the likes of Purdy are unable to break through. Thompstone was bought on the cheap following injury and Goneva was largely unheard of in then French second division. Getting them new contracts will require pay rises and see interest from elsewhere.

yappysnap wrote:Please Quins actually get out the cash and go for a player for once.

I was just thinking last week he'd be perfect at Quins to replace Monye as a like for like. Especially with Walker/Chisholm on the other wing.

But then we also have Tom Williams, Sam Smith and Ollie Lindsey Hague as well...

Tom Williams is excellent but about to turn 30 and looks like his pace might just be starting to fade. I'd also be surprised if we keep all of Smith, Chisholm and Lindsey Hague beyond their current contracts. They're all exciting players, but Yarde could easily be a world class winger within the next two years and they don't come out of contract very often.

beshocked - I agree that our pack is in need of a bit of extra beef, but I'd be surprised if they solved that by signing players from outside. They've already directly replaced the loss of Johnston and Kohn by signing Doran Jones and Kennedy, and O'Shea won't want to block the progress of Buchanan, Collier, Sinkler, Matthews and Clifford by getting extra players in. Wing on the other hand is an area where we're on course for a crisis if we don't find proper replacements for Monye and Williams in the next year or two.

Saracens won't be looking to spend much more money out wide I wouldn't have thought, and Leicester have signed plenty of wingers recently already. Bath would be an interesting option, but I'd like to think that Quins would be seriously in the mix for him.

Tigers have got Hamilton, Goneva, Benjamin, Thompstone and Camacho out of contract in the summer tomh. Given that the first and last of that list are probably off. Benjamin has yet to play a first team game and both Goneva and Thompstone will attract considerable interest the fact we've dabbled in the market will mean very little.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers have got Hamilton, Goneva, Benjamin, Thompstone and Camacho out of contract in the summer tomh. Given that the first and last of that list are probably off. Benjamin has yet to play a first team game and both Goneva and Thompstone will attract considerable interest the fact we've dabbled in the market will mean very little.

Ah fair enough - didn't realise they were all out of contract.

Thompstone, Goneva and Benjamin all signed on two year deals last summer. Camacho and Hamilton got one year deals late on this summer. Hamilton will retire and Camacho is keen to go to France I think, might get a Super 15 berth.

Yeah, no-one wanted Camacho due to 4Ns and AIs at the rate he wanted, so in the end he took a short term deal on very little money.




apparently the National Space Centre was the biggest attraction - as everyone knows we do not pay big money (this is the right thread for that?).

Out of all of those Goneva is the only real keeper, the others are pretty meh.

Goneva should be good for another two year deal as at 29 a longer contract would be a gamble. Twelve tries in twenty one appearences is a good return.

Benjamin I'd like to see actually play before he's written off as he could be an international class winger with some development.

Adam Thompstone has ten in twenty five and is very reliable on the wing. I'd consider him a definite keeper, wouldn't offer him big money but we should be looking to tie him down to a new contract. His offloading game has in particular come good, just see his two assists from the Bath game. Unlikely to get capped so available all season as well.

HongKongCherry wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Ye can all keep yer grubby little paws off the boy, he's going nowhere.

In all seriousness he has to have RWC2015 in his sights, and if we get near to the new year and we are in a dogfight then I wouldn't blame him for moving on as he can't be playing in the Championship if he has England ambitions.  If we are closer to mid table than the bottom at that point, I think he might stay, as I understand he has a good relationship with Brian Smith and seems to love the club too.

On the other hand Ozzy, he may be persuaded that he got into the EPS with Irish and he is best placed to stay there in order to make that world cup squad.

You can be pretty confident that people within the England setup, including the coaches, will be whispering in his ear, telling him that he needs to be at a "big club" in order to progress in his career etc.

Check out this interview with Jonathan Joseph, in which he more or less confirms this:

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/english-rugby-premiership/10897/i-had-to-quit-irish-to-stay-in-the-picture-with-england-jonathan-joseph/

Obviously I am biased, as a London Irish fan, but I don't understand Lancaster's stance on this issue. It makes no sense to only have six teams providing players for the England set-up.

SirBurger wrote:Obviously I am biased, as a London Irish fan, but I don't understand Lancaster's stance on this issue. It makes no sense to only have six teams providing players for the England set-up.

There's a benefit to england if they have as many players as possible with big game experience - playoffs, premiership finals, latter stages of the HC etc. better opposition is better experience.

But the standard of the Premiership drops if only six teams have all the England players...therefore, fewer big games.

But conversely those guys are in Europe every year playing guys they'll be facing internationally at some point, and they're building a rapport with other internationals as they're all at the same few clubs.

the man himself speaks - is in no rush to re-sign:

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/yarde-no-rush-sign-new-6058240

I'd have thought game time was key personally. LI have eased him over a few seasons so he could adapt and perform to the required level. If anything It's a good thing that a player has some experience in a smaller team where things aren't necessarily going your way and you have to fight you way out of it. Be more relevant to England as we're not going to be dominating the big teams and giving our backs and arm chair ride.

Having said that big game experience will tell the England management a lot about a players mental strength.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers have got Hamilton, Goneva, Benjamin, Thompstone and Camacho out of contract in the summer tomh. Given that the first and last of that list are probably off. Benjamin has yet to play a first team game and both Goneva and Thompstone will attract considerable interest the fact we've dabbled in the market will mean very little.

I'd forgotten about Miles Benjamin. Pretty promising player. Is his just being used in the reserves, or has he been injured?

I'd hang onto Thompstone and Goneva if I were you.

Big game experience is important, but he will get that to a certain extent at Irish. When we play the top sides in the AP he is barring injury guaranteed to play, as he is our best winger. So this year he will face Sarries, Saints, Tigers etc twice meaing lots of big game time.

If he were to go to one of those sides, and have the opportunity of playing in the Heineken Cup, would he necessarily get a start in the big games? I'm not convinced. He's get rotated at all of those sides, and at present I think he needs to be playing, which he will do if he stays.

Ozzy3213 it could work against him though because LI don't have a big pack.

Space and opportunities must be created for him, better sides can do this better.

Let's not forget Yarde only scored 3 tries in 19 games last season. He's started well this season- 3 tries in 2 games. Can he maintain this?

beshocked wrote:Ozzy3213 it could work against him though because LI don't have a big pack.

Space and opportunities must be created for him, better sides can do this better.

Let's not forget Yarde only scored 3 tries in 19 games last season. He's started well this season- 3 tries in 2 games. Can he maintain this?

An equal and parallel argument can be made about Ashton whose performance as a striking winger at both league and national levels has entirely collapsed. He's now good rather than outstanding.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

beshocked wrote:Ozzy3213 it could work against him though because LI don't have a big pack.

Space and opportunities must be created for him, better sides can do this better.

Let's not forget Yarde only scored 3 tries in 19 games last season. He's started well this season- 3 tries in 2 games. Can he maintain this?

An equal and parallel argument can be made about Ashton whose performance as a striking winger at both league and national levels has entirely collapsed. He's now good rather than outstanding.

10 tries in 21 games - HC and AP ones. Not bad no?

Ashton was I think the 4th highest try scorer in the HC last season.

No there is no parallel. 3 in 19 is not the same as 10 in 21.

You could criticise Ashton for his poor defence but his club strike rate? No not really.

beshocked wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

beshocked wrote:Ozzy3213 it could work against him though because LI don't have a big pack.

Space and opportunities must be created for him, better sides can do this better.

Let's not forget Yarde only scored 3 tries in 19 games last season. He's started well this season- 3 tries in 2 games. Can he maintain this?

An equal and parallel argument can be made about Ashton whose performance as a striking winger at both league and national levels has entirely collapsed. He's now good rather than outstanding.

10 tries in 21 games - HC and AP ones. Not bad no?

Ashton was I think the 4th highest try scorer in the HC last season.

No there is no parallel. 3 in 19 is not the same as 10 in 21.

You could criticise Ashton for his poor defence but his club strike rate? No not really.

Sarries did play both Zebre and Connacht last year in the HEC last year, 'shocked.
Now I can't be arsed to look up his precise scoring record although at the International level, I do see that his effectiveness has fallen off the cliff probably to inappropriate coaches.

I can only go by what I see in a striker and what I see is a blunted one - or a foil epee being used as a sabre.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

beshocked wrote:Ozzy3213 it could work against him though because LI don't have a big pack.

Space and opportunities must be created for him, better sides can do this better.

Let's not forget Yarde only scored 3 tries in 19 games last season. He's started well this season- 3 tries in 2 games. Can he maintain this?

An equal and parallel argument can be made about Ashton whose performance as a striking winger at both league and national levels has entirely collapsed. He's now good rather than outstanding.

10 tries in 21 games - HC and AP ones. Not bad no?

Ashton was I think the 4th highest try scorer in the HC last season.

No there is no parallel. 3 in 19 is not the same as 10 in 21.

You could criticise Ashton for his poor defence but his club strike rate? No not really.

Sarries did play both Zebre and Connacht last year in the HEC last year, 'shocked.
Now I can't be arsed to look up his precise scoring record although at the International level, I do see that his effectiveness has fallen off the cliff probably to inappropriate coaches.

I can only go by what I see in a striker and what I see is a blunted one - or a foil epee being used as a sabre.

portnoys complaint please stop showing your ignorance. Think before you post please. I know that's patronising but come on I expect better.

No, Saracens had Edinburgh,Racing Metro and Munster in their pool. They have those two teams this year.

What do you want to see in a striker/winger?

First and foremost I see them as finishers. That means they score goals and tries.

Ashton hasn't been playing well at international level - not just the lack of tries, his defence has been poor, he's shown a lack of confidence.

On the other hand at club level last season he was far better than Yarde

Then again Ashton didn't score as many tries as Wade or Varndell.

It's early days this season of course but even now Ashton has a 1 try in 2 games. 50% strike rate isn't bad.

wouldnt go as far to say he was far better

he may of had a far better try scoring record but his defence was shocking at times and he was generally off form most the season.

stnick88 10 tries to 3 - that's far better. Sorry.

Equally I would say Wade was far better than both.

Credit to Yarde though - he's been the form winger this season so far. Starting to live up to the hype - good to see.

beshocked wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

beshocked wrote:Ozzy3213 it could work against him though because LI don't have a big pack.

Space and opportunities must be created for him, better sides can do this better.

Let's not forget Yarde only scored 3 tries in 19 games last season. He's started well this season- 3 tries in 2 games. Can he maintain this?

An equal and parallel argument can be made about Ashton whose performance as a striking winger at both league and national levels has entirely collapsed. He's now good rather than outstanding.

10 tries in 21 games - HC and AP ones. Not bad no?

Ashton was I think the 4th highest try scorer in the HC last season.

No there is no parallel. 3 in 19 is not the same as 10 in 21.

You could criticise Ashton for his poor defence but his club strike rate? No not really.

Sarries did play both Zebre and Connacht last year in the HEC last year, 'shocked.
Now I can't be arsed to look up his precise scoring record although at the International level, I do see that his effectiveness has fallen off the cliff probably to inappropriate coaches.

I can only go by what I see in a striker and what I see is a blunted one - or a foil epee being used as a sabre.

portnoys complaint please stop showing your ignorance. Think before you post please. I know that's patronising but come on I expect better.

No, Saracens had Edinburgh,Racing Metro and Munster in their pool. They have those two teams this year.

What do you want to see in a striker/winger?

First and foremost I see them as finishers. That means they score goals and tries.

Ashton hasn't been playing well at international level - not just the lack of tries, his defence has been poor, he's shown a lack of confidence.

On the other hand at club level last season he was far better than Yarde

Then again Ashton didn't score as many tries as Wade or Varndell.

It's early days this season of course but even now Ashton has a 1 try in 2 games. 50% strike rate isn't bad.

Apologies, I recalled Quins for Sarries in the draw.

But the fact remains that under Sarries and England as I see it is that he's nowhere near now than he was under the coaching of Saints and the Johnson era.

He needs a more roaming direction and find the spaces and opportunities/create opposition holes.

He's no foil like Shane Williams but he's no bludgeon either and he certainly could be used more effectively imo.

I think there's some truth in that. Whilst Ashton can still finish, I've seen less of him playing off the shoulder and picking lines off his wing in the last couple of years. That was always a key strength to his game, his reading of the game. He seems to have become a little bit more conventional these days, and more reluctant to leave his station on the wing. He's still very quick though and a perfectly capable winger.

FES, Benjamin missed the entirety of last season with a neck injury which has also limited his involvement so far this season.

Ashton scored quite a few towards the end of last season on the harder pitches once Sarries decided they wanted to play and offloading game from Tomkins. He still hasn't hit his best form but with a team that don't tend to counter attack or play wide that often It's not a great surprise. Hopefully Tomkins at OC this season will get him moving, he's started the season well.

beshocked wrote:Credit to Yarde though - he's been the form winger this season so far. Starting to live up to the hype - good to see.

Actually there has been almost no hype.

When he was selected for the Summer Tour most on here were astounded and astonished (I had been suggesting it however as he was the best winger to play against Tigers last season).

Since that selection he has been good against Argentina, and excellent at the start of this season. That is why we are talking about him. Because his performances warrant it. Saracens would be lucky to have him.

Shame about Benjamin. Useful winger. Hope he gets back into action soon. Some tough competition on the Leicester wing, but if you guys are going to lose a few next summer and Benjamin is going to hang around, I'm sure he'll get some decent game time this year.

I just hope he gets a chance to play again.

I don't remember a single constructive counter attack by Ashton last season, yes he finished a lot of team moves especially against tired teams later in games but I just don't remember him tearing it up for Sarries. He seems to stay on his wing a lot more now ready to defend any kicks that come in rather then roam looking to join the attack.